| I don't know the train lines on 08:56 - Nov 3 with 983 views | DJR |
| I don't know the train lines on 13:11 - Nov 2 by DJR |
In other news, I caught trains to and from the game yesterday and nothing happened.
Of course, I am not trying to downplay the awfulness of what happened but the way the media and politician focus on crime does tend to distort things and frighten people.
It also causes a disconnect between people's perceptions of crime nationally and what they experience locally. And it fails to take into account the fact that rates of crime are much lower than they were 30 or 40 years ago.
To take an example, there was a caller on LBC earlier stating that all sorts of crime were out of control, and complaining that it took 8 minutes for the police to arrive at the scene, which is completely bonkers.
The problem though is that crime is a trigger issue, and many politicians play into this. [Post edited 2 Nov 13:15]
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Interesting to hear a professor of criminology on Sky News echoing the point I made about the difference between people's perception of crime and the reality. [Post edited 3 Nov 8:57]
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| I don't know the train lines on 09:24 - Nov 3 with 913 views | The_Major |
As it's now been confirmed that the scumbag who did this is a British bloke called Anthony, expect Middleton and the other fascist grifters to pivot onto his race.. |  | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:24 - Nov 3 with 916 views | Zx1988 |
I see that the suspect has been named as 'Anthony Williams'.
That's going to upset an awful lot of people, I'm sure. |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 09:27 - Nov 3 with 896 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:24 - Nov 3 by The_Major |
As it's now been confirmed that the scumbag who did this is a British bloke called Anthony, expect Middleton and the other fascist grifters to pivot onto his race.. |
Indeed and thus making life horrendous again for those of us not fortunate enough to have been born with white skin. I'm starting to hate this racist world in which we live. |  | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:28 - Nov 3 with 892 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I don't know the train lines on 08:56 - Nov 3 by DJR |
Interesting to hear a professor of criminology on Sky News echoing the point I made about the difference between people's perception of crime and the reality. [Post edited 3 Nov 8:57]
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It's not in doubt. It's Risk Management 101 to consider how influences upon people can lead to misleading perceptions of risk. Media coverage is one of those influences. It was the same after the spate of bombings, with everyone getting jumpy over any bags left unattended. Before this nobody would have given them a second thought. |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 09:36 - Nov 3 with 863 views | DJR |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:28 - Nov 3 by Swansea_Blue |
It's not in doubt. It's Risk Management 101 to consider how influences upon people can lead to misleading perceptions of risk. Media coverage is one of those influences. It was the same after the spate of bombings, with everyone getting jumpy over any bags left unattended. Before this nobody would have given them a second thought. |
The point though is wider than high profile things like bombings.
Politicians and the media have been banging on about law and order for 40 odd years, and if anything the clamour and fear is greater now than ever despite dramatic falls in the vast majority of crimes.
Throw into the mix a racial element to the coverage, and it is all pretty toxic.
https://policeprofessional.com/feature/the-perception-gap/
"Seventy-eight per cent of people in England and Wales think that crime has gone up in the past few years, according to the latest survey. But the data on actual crime shows the exact opposite.
As of 2024, violence, burglary and car crime have been declining for 30 years and by close to 90 per cent, according to the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) – our best indicator of true crime levels. Unlike police data, the CSEW is not subject to variations in reporting and recording.
The drop in violence includes domestic violence and other violence against women. Anti-social behaviour has similarly declined. While increased fraud and computer misuse now make up half of crime, this mainly reflects how far the rates of other crimes have fallen.
All high-income countries have experienced similar trends, and there is scientific consensus that the decline in crime is a real phenomenon." [Post edited 3 Nov 9:45]
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| I don't know the train lines on 09:40 - Nov 3 with 848 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:24 - Nov 3 by The_Major |
As it's now been confirmed that the scumbag who did this is a British bloke called Anthony, expect Middleton and the other fascist grifters to pivot onto his race.. |
It's becoming increasingly obvious that it's always been about race for these people. Middleton is a particularly nasty piece of work. Presumably this is all playing out on X? I've seen that there appear to be AI-generated images being used to amplify the hatred and Musk's AI bot is making up an 'alternative reality'. | |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:00 - Nov 3 with 794 views | DJR |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:36 - Nov 3 by DJR |
The point though is wider than high profile things like bombings.
Politicians and the media have been banging on about law and order for 40 odd years, and if anything the clamour and fear is greater now than ever despite dramatic falls in the vast majority of crimes.
Throw into the mix a racial element to the coverage, and it is all pretty toxic.
https://policeprofessional.com/feature/the-perception-gap/
"Seventy-eight per cent of people in England and Wales think that crime has gone up in the past few years, according to the latest survey. But the data on actual crime shows the exact opposite.
As of 2024, violence, burglary and car crime have been declining for 30 years and by close to 90 per cent, according to the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) – our best indicator of true crime levels. Unlike police data, the CSEW is not subject to variations in reporting and recording.
The drop in violence includes domestic violence and other violence against women. Anti-social behaviour has similarly declined. While increased fraud and computer misuse now make up half of crime, this mainly reflects how far the rates of other crimes have fallen.
All high-income countries have experienced similar trends, and there is scientific consensus that the decline in crime is a real phenomenon." [Post edited 3 Nov 9:45]
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Here's another extract from the article.
"There are many possible explanations for [public perception}, of which the first is poor information. A study published in 1998 found that “people who watch a lot of television or who read a lot of newspapers will be exposed to a steady diet of crime stories” that does not reflect official statistics.
The old news media adage “if it bleeds, it leads” reflects how violent news stories, including crime increases and serious crimes, capture public attention. Knife crime grabs headlines in the UK, but our shock at individual incidents is testament to their rarity and our relative success in controlling violence – many gun crimes do not make the news in the US.
Most recent terrorist attacks in the UK have featured knives (plus a thwarted Liverpool bomber), but there is little discussion of how this indicates that measures to restrict guns and bomb-making resources are effective.
Political rhetoric can also skew perceptions, particularly in the run-up to elections.
During the recent local elections, the Conservatives were widely criticised for an advert portraying London as “a crime capital of the world” (using a video of New York), while Labour has also made reference to high levels of crime under the current government."
As regards London, I recently saw figures which showed that the level of violent crime there is lower than that for the whole of the rest of England and Wales, but you wouldn't think that if you followed the hype. | | | |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:09 - Nov 3 with 769 views | Plums |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:36 - Nov 3 by DJR |
The point though is wider than high profile things like bombings.
Politicians and the media have been banging on about law and order for 40 odd years, and if anything the clamour and fear is greater now than ever despite dramatic falls in the vast majority of crimes.
Throw into the mix a racial element to the coverage, and it is all pretty toxic.
https://policeprofessional.com/feature/the-perception-gap/
"Seventy-eight per cent of people in England and Wales think that crime has gone up in the past few years, according to the latest survey. But the data on actual crime shows the exact opposite.
As of 2024, violence, burglary and car crime have been declining for 30 years and by close to 90 per cent, according to the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW) – our best indicator of true crime levels. Unlike police data, the CSEW is not subject to variations in reporting and recording.
The drop in violence includes domestic violence and other violence against women. Anti-social behaviour has similarly declined. While increased fraud and computer misuse now make up half of crime, this mainly reflects how far the rates of other crimes have fallen.
All high-income countries have experienced similar trends, and there is scientific consensus that the decline in crime is a real phenomenon." [Post edited 3 Nov 9:45]
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Here is the rub and it's anecdotal but whilst the stats support the argument, the perception of crime is driven not only by the media but people's lived experience.
My own perception is that anti-social behaviour and low level misdemeanours are what are fuelling fear of crime. These are all examples I have personally seen recently:
1) Large groups of illegal motorcyclists riding four and five abreast down a main road, flaunting speed cameras.
2) About 20 kids on pushbikes in the dark with no lights and dressed all in black riding through central Manchester pulling wheelies and screaming and yelling at pedestrians.
3) Electric bikes riding at 30mph on the pavement and through pedestrianised areas.
4) Cars running red lights (this seems to be daily)
Whilst these are traffic offences, they suggest there is an element of lawlessness and an ability to act as you wish without sanction which feeds into the perception of what constitutes 'crime'. It's very easy for the grifters to feed off it because it's largely unreported but is also people's lived reality. |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:11 - Nov 3 with 768 views | SitfcB |
| I don't know the train lines on 09:24 - Nov 3 by The_Major |
As it's now been confirmed that the scumbag who did this is a British bloke called Anthony, expect Middleton and the other fascist grifters to pivot onto his race.. |
Bloody hell…
The police say that Anthony Williams, 32, is also being charged with an additional count of attempted murder and possession of a bladed article in relation to an incident on London's DLR network in the early hours of Saturday.
It is understood that a victim suffered facial injuries after being attacked with a knife at Pontoon Dock station on London's DLR network at 00:46.
Williams was later identified as a suspect.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c93dwq33vkwt |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:19 - Nov 3 with 739 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:11 - Nov 3 by SitfcB |
Bloody hell…
The police say that Anthony Williams, 32, is also being charged with an additional count of attempted murder and possession of a bladed article in relation to an incident on London's DLR network in the early hours of Saturday.
It is understood that a victim suffered facial injuries after being attacked with a knife at Pontoon Dock station on London's DLR network at 00:46.
Williams was later identified as a suspect.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c93dwq33vkwt |
do you mean "BLACK British Born Anthony Williams"? Media keen to hammer home that specific point. | | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:19 - Nov 3 with 734 views | MrPotatoHead |
| I don't know the train lines on 23:40 - Nov 2 by Ryorry |
Think some if not all, even if they escaped physical harm, will be left with psychological trauma. One woman said she doesn't think she'll ever feel safe sitting on a train again. One Dad said his kid was covered in someone else's blood.
Really feel for them & others caught up in traumatic events like that |
It just doesn't bare thinking about. I feel so sorry for those who had to witness it and were caught up in it all, naturally I feel worse for children as well.
A huge shout out for those who stepped in to prevent it being even worse, it sounds like a fair few real heroes in the moment and a reminder that for every 1 lunatic capable of such a thing there are plenty more good folk among us from all creeds and colours and walks of life who just want to go about their lives in peace. |  | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:20 - Nov 3 with 732 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:19 - Nov 3 by FromReuserWithLove |
do you mean "BLACK British Born Anthony Williams"? Media keen to hammer home that specific point. |
If the suspect was white then the media would also state this. You're looking for something that isn't there. |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:22 - Nov 3 with 712 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:20 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
If the suspect was white then the media would also state this. You're looking for something that isn't there. |
Really? | | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:29 - Nov 3 with 687 views | Trequartista |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:20 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
If the suspect was white then the media would also state this. You're looking for something that isn't there. |
To be fair, before the identification it seemed like current procedure, but now identification has been made it does seem weird they (and i mean sky and bbc, not daily mail) keep saying black. |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:29 - Nov 3 with 669 views | lowhouseblue |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:11 - Nov 3 by SitfcB |
Bloody hell…
The police say that Anthony Williams, 32, is also being charged with an additional count of attempted murder and possession of a bladed article in relation to an incident on London's DLR network in the early hours of Saturday.
It is understood that a victim suffered facial injuries after being attacked with a knife at Pontoon Dock station on London's DLR network at 00:46.
Williams was later identified as a suspect.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c93dwq33vkwt |
if it had been terrorism the debate now would be how did this person slip through the net. instead we have how did the police respond to his first attack, and, in all probability, what were his previous interactions with mental health providers. like nottingham there may be more stuff to come out. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:34 - Nov 3 with 659 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Fk me. Some of BlueBudgie’s downers on this thread are a signifier of their politics. |  |
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:38 - Nov 3 with 650 views | GlasgowBlue |
Yes really. The media tend to report the ethnicity and skin colour of suspects these days. They report what the Police tell them and the latest guidelines from the NPCC are:
1. Forces encouraged to disclose ethnicity and nationality when suspects are charged in certain cases
2. Move aims to ensure policing is more consistent, fair and transparent with this information, as well as addressing potential mis and disinformation
3. Change recognises public concerns and ensures police processes are fit for purpose in an age of rapid information spread
I'm sure you agree that the final part of point 2 is very important? The Police are obviously very keen not to have a repeat of the misinformation that surrounded the Southport murders.
[Post edited 3 Nov 10:41]
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| I don't know the train lines on 10:40 - Nov 3 with 635 views | DJR |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:09 - Nov 3 by Plums |
Here is the rub and it's anecdotal but whilst the stats support the argument, the perception of crime is driven not only by the media but people's lived experience.
My own perception is that anti-social behaviour and low level misdemeanours are what are fuelling fear of crime. These are all examples I have personally seen recently:
1) Large groups of illegal motorcyclists riding four and five abreast down a main road, flaunting speed cameras.
2) About 20 kids on pushbikes in the dark with no lights and dressed all in black riding through central Manchester pulling wheelies and screaming and yelling at pedestrians.
3) Electric bikes riding at 30mph on the pavement and through pedestrianised areas.
4) Cars running red lights (this seems to be daily)
Whilst these are traffic offences, they suggest there is an element of lawlessness and an ability to act as you wish without sanction which feeds into the perception of what constitutes 'crime'. It's very easy for the grifters to feed off it because it's largely unreported but is also people's lived reality. |
The professor I heard acknowledged that there can be local or personal experiences of crime which obviously will play into the concerns that people affected might have but the perception extends to many areas where such things aren't taking place. | | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:44 - Nov 3 with 604 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:38 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes really. The media tend to report the ethnicity and skin colour of suspects these days. They report what the Police tell them and the latest guidelines from the NPCC are:
1. Forces encouraged to disclose ethnicity and nationality when suspects are charged in certain cases
2. Move aims to ensure policing is more consistent, fair and transparent with this information, as well as addressing potential mis and disinformation
3. Change recognises public concerns and ensures police processes are fit for purpose in an age of rapid information spread
I'm sure you agree that the final part of point 2 is very important? The Police are obviously very keen not to have a repeat of the misinformation that surrounded the Southport murders.
[Post edited 3 Nov 10:41]
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OK, i'll stand down on that even if they do seem to be making more emphasis of it than usual. Maybe it's those 'reporting' it on the hate site Twitter. | | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 11:00 - Nov 3 with 568 views | positivity |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:38 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes really. The media tend to report the ethnicity and skin colour of suspects these days. They report what the Police tell them and the latest guidelines from the NPCC are:
1. Forces encouraged to disclose ethnicity and nationality when suspects are charged in certain cases
2. Move aims to ensure policing is more consistent, fair and transparent with this information, as well as addressing potential mis and disinformation
3. Change recognises public concerns and ensures police processes are fit for purpose in an age of rapid information spread
I'm sure you agree that the final part of point 2 is very important? The Police are obviously very keen not to have a repeat of the misinformation that surrounded the Southport murders.
[Post edited 3 Nov 10:41]
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when are the police going to get involved with 68-year old white male suspect andrew mountbattenburg-windsor? | |
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| I don't know the train lines on 11:07 - Nov 3 with 537 views | leitrimblue |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:34 - Nov 3 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Fk me. Some of BlueBudgie’s downers on this thread are a signifier of their politics. |
I wonder if he's a 'native Brit'?  |  | | |
| I don't know the train lines on 11:08 - Nov 3 with 522 views | positivity |
| I don't know the train lines on 11:07 - Nov 3 by leitrimblue |
I wonder if he's a 'native Brit'? |
probably just missing one t from a native brit? | |
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| I don't know the train lines on 11:11 - Nov 3 with 507 views | DJR |
| I don't know the train lines on 10:38 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes really. The media tend to report the ethnicity and skin colour of suspects these days. They report what the Police tell them and the latest guidelines from the NPCC are:
1. Forces encouraged to disclose ethnicity and nationality when suspects are charged in certain cases
2. Move aims to ensure policing is more consistent, fair and transparent with this information, as well as addressing potential mis and disinformation
3. Change recognises public concerns and ensures police processes are fit for purpose in an age of rapid information spread
I'm sure you agree that the final part of point 2 is very important? The Police are obviously very keen not to have a repeat of the misinformation that surrounded the Southport murders.
[Post edited 3 Nov 10:41]
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This is the guidance in question but it is interesting to note that the nationality and ethnicity but not their names appear to have been released prior to charge. Indeed, it is the period before charge where "imaginations" are most likely to run wild.
The column on pre-arrest does allow a description including, but not limited to, ethnicity to be disclosed, so it maybe that under which the information was disclosed. But a risk factor of hostility to communities based on the description is to be taken into account. I imagine, however, that it wouldn't be difficult to take the view that the risk to, say, the Muslim community by not describing them outweighed the risk to the black British community by describing them.
https://assets.college.police.uk/s3fs-public/2025-08/NPCC-College-interim-guidan [Post edited 3 Nov 11:23]
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| I don't know the train lines on 11:13 - Nov 3 with 497 views | Trequartista |
| I don't know the train lines on 11:00 - Nov 3 by positivity |
when are the police going to get involved with 68-year old white male suspect andrew mountbattenburg-windsor? |
the guidelines are for before identification of the suspect.
earlier in the thread i said found it weird reading the ethnicity after the identification, but it looks to me as though bbc have now removed that. | |
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