| Kieran on team building 15:18 - Dec 19 with 3040 views | NthQldITFC |
Extracted straight from Phil's presser thread, but I think the manager puts it better than anyone really.
Presser by PhilTWTD 19 Dec 14:35Collection of individuals rather than a team? I've said before, comparing with last team, we did something remarkable. I see a group of players who have outrun the opposition, created more chances than the opposition in most games. Can we still improve in chemistry, resilience? We can, but that's more natural for a group that's not been together that long. Any team which has been through promotions etc is going to be more together than a group which came together a few months ago. But I see a group working hard, looking back isn't much use at the moment. Need to stay really focused and that's how we build it.
It's completely understandable that our fans' expectations are high and some degree of impatience is natural, but we have remember the part of the team building cycle we are in, and the qualifications of the man in charge to get us there. |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 07:28 - Dec 20 with 416 views | MK1 |
| Kieran on team building on 19:43 - Dec 19 by AVJones |
Unfortunately, the reality is if we don’t go up there will be wholesale changes.
Our budget will be less than this season. We’ll have to cut our cloth accordingly.
Ambitious players, some who we’ve persuaded to stay this year with new contracts, will almost certainly leave eg O’Shea, Davis
Plus of course, loanees return…
The ongoing narrative of giving a team time to gel ignores the reality that pretty much every season there will be significant churn. Managing this churn, and still finding a way to have “fast starts” to a season will become ever more important.
Also, I would suggest that a successful transfer window in January would see very little movement. A striker, yes, but little else.
This would say we 100% back the squad that’s been built, and that has got to know each other over the previous four months. Now, go and deliver! That would be my message to the squad. |
By wholesale changes I mean the mass we signed in our PL season. You could argue that it was needed, but you could also argue against.
If the current squad was assembled just to get us up, then fair enough, but I don't believe that to be the case.
We need to keep the core of whatever squad gets us there together, otherwise the whole cycle starts again and back down we would go.
Get a settled squad and each window just recruit in your weakest positions.
Mass changes whether going up or down smacks of a team in the here and now and not the longer term.
If they were good enough to be signed, then they should still be good enough now. |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 07:29 - Dec 20 with 412 views | franz_tyson |
| Kieran on team building on 00:57 - Dec 20 by Churchman |
I think we’ve all worked out that the team has under achieved. I suspect owners, manager and the tea lady have worked that out too. I expected us to be closer than we are.
The questions are why and what next. For the why, teams don’t automatically form because you’ve bought better players. It doesn’t work that way with human beings. It can work, but the exception proves the rule.
Even Robson’s best team (79-82) were poor until Dec 79 and that was with minimal changes and in relative terms far better players than we have now. It takes time. Anyone who has assembled, managed or worked in any sort of team will tell you that.
So you are supportive of KM and are not asking for him to be sacked. Fine. But what are you asking for?
I also don’t see any reason why the league should be particularly stronger next year. Ok an established PL club in Wolves are likely to come down, but from what I saw the other day, they looked broken and very poor. They might even beat Derby’s record. [Post edited 20 Dec 11:58]
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I agree. What is this thread for? Just to put yourself on a pedestal as a "real' supporter and to throw anyone else who questions Kieran under the bus?
I like Kieran and I want him to stay and succeed. But I'm pretty sure it's not going as he wanted it. There's got to be more than throwing a sh1tful of cash at it and add in time. Kieran's a smart, calm guy who can talk well, but, christ, the way that some hang on his every word as if he's some deity.. Without being hyper-critical, I just want him to do his job better. Pound for pound the squad isn't delivering. Genuine talking point. It's also unbalanced where some positions are under-strength where some positions we have an overload. Genuine talking point. We're supposed to be a well-coached side. Doesn't appear like it. Are we? Genuine talking point.
Not all of us are ranty and frothing with anger.... I'm just under-whelmed and I'm not expecting to be top and I expected bumps in the road and a difficult start. But I thought by now we'd start seeing the team gelling.
Some level of consistency and the fans will be behind the team, but surely we should be allowed to express balanced feedback on our performances afrer 20 games? |  | | |
| Kieran on team building on 07:35 - Dec 20 with 403 views | Olcol |
| Kieran on team building on 16:41 - Dec 19 by Illinoisblue |
Fast forward to April and we need six wins, big goal difference swing and a couple snookers to make the top two…. “Yeah, but if you look at xG…”. |
So you are trying to say we have not improved at all since the beginning of the season and truly believe we will not make play offs?
You come across as a chronic pessimist. We have steadily been improving while still losing and drawing what apparently were winnable games. What you haven't understood is that any team on their day can beat any one in this division if your just slightly off the pace. We are also every teams cup final as the bookies had us as favourites at the start of the season. It's obvious you don't think much of KM but you are in a minority and will get flack from those that disagree with you.
It took Sir Bobby a few seasons before we got a squad that was doing well in the top tier in the early seventies. I would also say it was easier back then.
COYB , IKWT. | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 09:55 - Dec 20 with 347 views | ArnieM |
Yea id say McKenna has hit the nail partially on the head. We have had so many chances in games, but the resounding common theme in our game is we simply cant finish off those chances, and that's right across the team, whoever is playing. We have almost zero composure in front of goal. Why, after half the season is this still the case? |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 10:58 - Dec 20 with 312 views | AVJones |
| Kieran on team building on 19:43 - Dec 19 by AVJones |
Unfortunately, the reality is if we don’t go up there will be wholesale changes.
Our budget will be less than this season. We’ll have to cut our cloth accordingly.
Ambitious players, some who we’ve persuaded to stay this year with new contracts, will almost certainly leave eg O’Shea, Davis
Plus of course, loanees return…
The ongoing narrative of giving a team time to gel ignores the reality that pretty much every season there will be significant churn. Managing this churn, and still finding a way to have “fast starts” to a season will become ever more important.
Also, I would suggest that a successful transfer window in January would see very little movement. A striker, yes, but little else.
This would say we 100% back the squad that’s been built, and that has got to know each other over the previous four months. Now, go and deliver! That would be my message to the squad. |
The Flashing Smile, you’re a thoughtful poster, I’m interested to know why you disagree with this post? | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 11:01 - Dec 20 with 298 views | chicoazul |
| Kieran on team building on 15:47 - Dec 19 by Marshalls_Mullet |
No more excuses please everyone.
Very expensive squad, many of who have been here well beyond this season.
Lets put the excuses to bed, play a consistent team and crack on with some wins.
I am supportive of KM and the team, but can be critical at the same time. |
Calm down dear. |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 11:11 - Dec 20 with 279 views | AVJones |
| Kieran on team building on 07:28 - Dec 20 by MK1 |
By wholesale changes I mean the mass we signed in our PL season. You could argue that it was needed, but you could also argue against.
If the current squad was assembled just to get us up, then fair enough, but I don't believe that to be the case.
We need to keep the core of whatever squad gets us there together, otherwise the whole cycle starts again and back down we would go.
Get a settled squad and each window just recruit in your weakest positions.
Mass changes whether going up or down smacks of a team in the here and now and not the longer term.
If they were good enough to be signed, then they should still be good enough now. |
I totally agree, however, I think it’s very difficult to do that in this era of player power, with their agents nudging them towards another payday, another signing on fee. | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 11:12 - Dec 20 with 275 views | Mullet |
The way this thread has gone is typical though.
It's not a debate that we've underperformed, we've had some terrible results and a few big wins, an unclear selection and the fact we are talking about January again in this way shows that recruitment and retention went badly.
If we'd have had a run of injuries and suspensions, then now would be understandable, but we haven't. We've come down with loads of money, decent players and a decent manager in a weak division.
People deflecting and defending that are just not being realistic or rational. If we need a season to transition when decent parachute teams become yoyo teams then something has gone wrong.
I said elsewhere but it's been a year since Wolves away and that last gasp winner. What has happened in the 12 months since doesn't reflect positively on the balance of things. We need to rectify that, just saying it will happen and berating people who aren't culty enough is pointless. |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 11:28 - Dec 20 with 248 views | backwaywhen |
| Kieran on team building on 15:59 - Dec 19 by rgp1 |
I think we are a team in transition. We may not go up and I think some struggle to accept that. |
We must trust the process, if we don’t go up , ( on the fence on that right now ) we must stick with McKenna, changing things at that point and I think we go backwards again…..be patient. | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 11:31 - Dec 20 with 239 views | Mullet |
| Kieran on team building on 11:28 - Dec 20 by backwaywhen |
We must trust the process, if we don’t go up , ( on the fence on that right now ) we must stick with McKenna, changing things at that point and I think we go backwards again…..be patient. |
But is that true? Are there no better managers? No one who can get a team promoted etc?
He's been brilliant here, but he's also not pulled a rabbit out of the hat for a while now. This idea that he can't be questioned, that we should be mitigating the possibilty of not beating Weds at home etc is simply weird.
Actively not supporting him is very different to looking at the reality and questioning what's going on. | |
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| Kieran on team building on 12:06 - Dec 20 with 197 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Kieran on team building on 11:31 - Dec 20 by Mullet |
But is that true? Are there no better managers? No one who can get a team promoted etc?
He's been brilliant here, but he's also not pulled a rabbit out of the hat for a while now. This idea that he can't be questioned, that we should be mitigating the possibilty of not beating Weds at home etc is simply weird.
Actively not supporting him is very different to looking at the reality and questioning what's going on. |
It's not about not questioning KmK, or arguing that he is infallible.
It's about the longer term view, and building for that future. As much as I'd love us to be mauling other clubs every week, I'm more interest in building something sustainable for the next 20 years. I'll gladly sacrifice a few cheap wins right now, if I believe we have a progressive, young manager establishing the building blocks for that future.
This is where patience comes in, and seeing the bigger picture. | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 12:19 - Dec 20 with 184 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I remember thinking during that glorious promotion campaign, that if KMcK can do this with a bunch of largely different inherited players and bargain basement buys, just what would he be able to do if he could recruit top quality players. Maybe it was unfair on some of the players because clearly Paul Cook had found a few gems who were excellent players despite coming from places like Fleetwood and Morecambe. But those players could bond during the L1 campaigns, so Kieran is right. These players are clearly forming connections and it’s a bit stop start, but the improvement is tangible |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 12:37 - Dec 20 with 172 views | Churchman |
| Kieran on team building on 07:29 - Dec 20 by franz_tyson |
I agree. What is this thread for? Just to put yourself on a pedestal as a "real' supporter and to throw anyone else who questions Kieran under the bus?
I like Kieran and I want him to stay and succeed. But I'm pretty sure it's not going as he wanted it. There's got to be more than throwing a sh1tful of cash at it and add in time. Kieran's a smart, calm guy who can talk well, but, christ, the way that some hang on his every word as if he's some deity.. Without being hyper-critical, I just want him to do his job better. Pound for pound the squad isn't delivering. Genuine talking point. It's also unbalanced where some positions are under-strength where some positions we have an overload. Genuine talking point. We're supposed to be a well-coached side. Doesn't appear like it. Are we? Genuine talking point.
Not all of us are ranty and frothing with anger.... I'm just under-whelmed and I'm not expecting to be top and I expected bumps in the road and a difficult start. But I thought by now we'd start seeing the team gelling.
Some level of consistency and the fans will be behind the team, but surely we should be allowed to express balanced feedback on our performances afrer 20 games? |
I don’t think anyone is presenting themselves as ‘real supporters’. Nobody is throwing people who question McKenna under the bus either. Everyone is entitled a view and the noisiest are those who want him gone and most of the team with him.
20 put their names to McKenna out on 2nd Dec against about double that who wanted him to stay. We also have people that are happy to abuse and hound their own players, whether it’s a centre forward on being subbed or a keeper whose name is announced. Are they ‘real supporters’? Are they the voice of reason? Do they think that’s their entitlement and that will somehow help the situation? Clearly they do.
Of course the team is not functioning as it should, given the quality of the players. The manager knows it, so do owners, players, people who watch live, on tv or just read results after their Gameboy time. I hoped we’d be top two or close to it.
Asking why is not a problem but nor is rationalising it. We’ve had some good patches in games, even good games. We’ve had too much dross too. We all want them to do better and given they are all trying my guess is they do too. As for coaching, I believe we are or more accurately will be a well coached side. You could argue, as some have, over coached ruining spontaneity. I don’t know - that’s their job not mine.
Of course people should be allowed to express balanced feedback on our performances after a game and some do. But these days, more people express unbalanced feedback I.e. 100% negative nonsense to the point this forum is a depressing waste of time for days afterwards until those people scuttle back under the rock they came from.
As for being behind the team, most in the ground at PR are behind the team. But not all and McKenna knows it. It’s one of the reasons I believe he’ll be gone before or at the end of the season. Just as it’s reasonable to question McKenna, I believe it’s also reasonable to question those who want him out with who they want to replace him. |  | | |
| Kieran on team building on 12:45 - Dec 20 with 162 views | Mullet |
| Kieran on team building on 12:06 - Dec 20 by SuffolkPunchFC |
It's not about not questioning KmK, or arguing that he is infallible.
It's about the longer term view, and building for that future. As much as I'd love us to be mauling other clubs every week, I'm more interest in building something sustainable for the next 20 years. I'll gladly sacrifice a few cheap wins right now, if I believe we have a progressive, young manager establishing the building blocks for that future.
This is where patience comes in, and seeing the bigger picture. |
But we aren’t seeing the bigger picture are we? Sustainable for 20 years is off pitch stuff. So I think like Ashtons “week” comment recently that’s disingenuous to say the least.
On the pitch right now isn’t going well and pointing it out isn’t being welcomed by plenty still pining for two years ago or whatnot.
No one is talking about “cheap wins” either that’s more nonsense. A decent team should win regularly and a team with the players and backing we have even more so. This sort of post is exactly the sort of stuff which is the problem. | |
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| Kieran on team building on 13:00 - Dec 20 with 140 views | J2BLUE |
| Kieran on team building on 12:45 - Dec 20 by Mullet |
But we aren’t seeing the bigger picture are we? Sustainable for 20 years is off pitch stuff. So I think like Ashtons “week” comment recently that’s disingenuous to say the least.
On the pitch right now isn’t going well and pointing it out isn’t being welcomed by plenty still pining for two years ago or whatnot.
No one is talking about “cheap wins” either that’s more nonsense. A decent team should win regularly and a team with the players and backing we have even more so. This sort of post is exactly the sort of stuff which is the problem. |
On the pitch right now isn’t going well and pointing it out isn’t being welcomed by plenty still pining for two years ago or whatnot.
Do you think we can't see it? Do you think it needs to be pointed out? The point is that we are less than half way through the season, we're averaging very nearly 2 points per game over the last 11 games despite performances not being great and we're very likely to address the unbalanced squad in January and sign least a top CM and striker to help solve two of the issues we are having.
What is contributing to the doom and gloom atmosphere actually achieving? |  |
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| Kieran on team building on 13:07 - Dec 20 with 128 views | Mullet |
| Kieran on team building on 13:00 - Dec 20 by J2BLUE |
On the pitch right now isn’t going well and pointing it out isn’t being welcomed by plenty still pining for two years ago or whatnot.
Do you think we can't see it? Do you think it needs to be pointed out? The point is that we are less than half way through the season, we're averaging very nearly 2 points per game over the last 11 games despite performances not being great and we're very likely to address the unbalanced squad in January and sign least a top CM and striker to help solve two of the issues we are having.
What is contributing to the doom and gloom atmosphere actually achieving? |
I think plenty can’t and I think refusal to engage with it or denial is fine- but indulging themselves in it and making comments about how superior they are is weird and dishonest.
After every poor result or performance we see it in spades. We are in a position where people are trying to play down Sheffield Wednesday at home now. If that’s not a sign of how lost these people are, then I dunno what is. | |
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| Kieran on team building on 13:19 - Dec 20 with 107 views | J2BLUE |
| Kieran on team building on 13:07 - Dec 20 by Mullet |
I think plenty can’t and I think refusal to engage with it or denial is fine- but indulging themselves in it and making comments about how superior they are is weird and dishonest.
After every poor result or performance we see it in spades. We are in a position where people are trying to play down Sheffield Wednesday at home now. If that’s not a sign of how lost these people are, then I dunno what is. |
I don't think i've seen many refuse to acknowledge that things have not gone as we liked or that performances are not where we expected them to be. There's plenty of reason to be half glass full IMO. As I said earlier, I won't move the goalposts. We're not even half way through the marathon yet but each game becomes more critical as they tick away. We may well need an inquest in time, I just don't think it's yet. | |
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| Kieran on team building on 14:08 - Dec 20 with 82 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Kieran on team building on 12:45 - Dec 20 by Mullet |
But we aren’t seeing the bigger picture are we? Sustainable for 20 years is off pitch stuff. So I think like Ashtons “week” comment recently that’s disingenuous to say the least.
On the pitch right now isn’t going well and pointing it out isn’t being welcomed by plenty still pining for two years ago or whatnot.
No one is talking about “cheap wins” either that’s more nonsense. A decent team should win regularly and a team with the players and backing we have even more so. This sort of post is exactly the sort of stuff which is the problem. |
This reply is a perfect example of not seeing the bigger picture. | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 14:13 - Dec 20 with 76 views | Mullet |
| Kieran on team building on 14:08 - Dec 20 by SuffolkPunchFC |
This reply is a perfect example of not seeing the bigger picture. |
That’s just nonsensical and the sort of thing being discussed. How does failing to win promotion fit into the bigger picture? Selling our best players to go again isn’t some sort of master plan.
McKenna and the Americans weren’t looking at this summer and thinking about anything else but success. Changing that criteria and pretending you’ve got some sort of insight or superiority is complete rubbish. | |
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| Kieran on team building on 14:29 - Dec 20 with 66 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Kieran on team building on 14:13 - Dec 20 by Mullet |
That’s just nonsensical and the sort of thing being discussed. How does failing to win promotion fit into the bigger picture? Selling our best players to go again isn’t some sort of master plan.
McKenna and the Americans weren’t looking at this summer and thinking about anything else but success. Changing that criteria and pretending you’ve got some sort of insight or superiority is complete rubbish. |
We’re not taking about not getting promoted. We’ve a long way to go before that’s even remotely a certainty. We’re talking about some people expecting us to smash everyone, every game. Football’s not like that.
By 5pm we may well be 3rd, with over half the season to go, and signs that we’re improving - albeit with the occasional set back.
I like that position, and I’m 100% behind KmK managing a better 2nd half of the season. That’s a recipe for at least a 2nd place finish. | | | |
| Kieran on team building on 14:37 - Dec 20 with 60 views | NthQldITFC |
| Kieran on team building on 14:29 - Dec 20 by SuffolkPunchFC |
We’re not taking about not getting promoted. We’ve a long way to go before that’s even remotely a certainty. We’re talking about some people expecting us to smash everyone, every game. Football’s not like that.
By 5pm we may well be 3rd, with over half the season to go, and signs that we’re improving - albeit with the occasional set back.
I like that position, and I’m 100% behind KmK managing a better 2nd half of the season. That’s a recipe for at least a 2nd place finish. |
I think we've lost the plot when it comes to patience these days. So many people of all ages seem rigidly incapable of keeping their underwear dry if what they want doesn't happen immediately.
It must be either TiketyTokety social media, or the wrong kind of narcotics, but it's certainly not limited to ITFC fans or football. | |
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