| Venezuela under attack (n/t) 06:40 - Jan 3 with 16567 views | Perublue |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:06 - Jan 4 with 660 views | leitrimblue |
No, I'm sure there are people on CNN waving Venezuelan flags.
That obviously means Venezuelans are happy that the US is about to impose a pro Trump puppet into their country and rape their mineral wealth  |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:09 - Jan 4 with 633 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:06 - Jan 4 by leitrimblue |
No, I'm sure there are people on CNN waving Venezuelan flags.
That obviously means Venezuelans are happy that the US is about to impose a pro Trump puppet into their country and rape their mineral wealth |
I don’t watch much network news, it’s usually pretty rubbish, full of commercials and highly partisan in either direction, but I do have the ability to go outside. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:09 - Jan 4 with 625 views | J2BLUE |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:51 - Jan 4 by NthQldITFC |
It's hard to tell really isn't it? I mean the words are coming out of your man's own mouth ffs, and he's following up on them. There's not really any reliable authority left now, is there? If that floats your boat... |
I think you're all talking about different things.
Are they celebrating? Many of them seem to be
Will it work out well for them in the medium to long term? We will see but I can fully understand the pessimism. With Trump admitting it's about oil and saying they will be paid for the costs involved I am sure the bill is going to be very high and normal people will see a tiny fraction of the money from any oil sold. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:11 - Jan 4 with 618 views | Dubtractor |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:09 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think you're all talking about different things.
Are they celebrating? Many of them seem to be
Will it work out well for them in the medium to long term? We will see but I can fully understand the pessimism. With Trump admitting it's about oil and saying they will be paid for the costs involved I am sure the bill is going to be very high and normal people will see a tiny fraction of the money from any oil sold. |
The thing that gives me hope, is that regime change has been really successful on all the other occasions it has happened in the last 30 years or so..... |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:11 - Jan 4 with 618 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:09 - Jan 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I don’t watch much network news, it’s usually pretty rubbish, full of commercials and highly partisan in either direction, but I do have the ability to go outside. |
...and gather enough information by 'going outside' to form a valid opinion?  |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:15 - Jan 4 with 587 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:11 - Jan 4 by NthQldITFC |
...and gather enough information by 'going outside' to form a valid opinion? |
Well there is a Venezuelan community of tens of thousands where I live, so yes, I have seen people driving around celebrating. So no, it’s not a staged small group that’s doing the rounds on the news if that’s what was being implied. Expat communities are celebrating all over the US. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:18 - Jan 4 with 572 views | itfcjoe |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:50 - Jan 4 by redrickstuhaart |
The level of dishonest argument being used in this thread is alarming.
Deflecting from the actual appalling conduct of the US and Trump, by claiming that people are denying that Venezuelans will be glad to see the back of Maduro.
We all recognise that. No one says otherwise. Many will celebrate that, some wont. Many who celebrate it will be also extremely concerned about becoming a US puppet state.
It doesnt make what happened right, nor give any grounds for confidence in a future which is to be based on US rule and pillaging of resources- byt Trump's own public admission. Nor address the issue of principle, which is very obviously that if we accept that large powerful nations have free reign to decide which regimes they like and to take them over, the world is heading to a very bad place indeed. |
“The level of dishonest argument being used in this thread is alarming.”
From what I can see all you disagree with is myself and JJJJ, I’ve made 2 posts on 9 pages. And all I’ve noted is from what I’ve seen a lot of actual Venezuelans seem happy with this news. I’d presume they are on the whole better informed than the posters of TWTD, bar Leitrim who has said his wife is from there.
I just watched some of the Downing Street protest from the professional protestors - talking about how yhe US need to leave to allow the Venezuelans to self determine their future, like it is that easy for them. As always the working classes are a disappointment to the bourgeoisie |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:20 - Jan 4 with 540 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:09 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
I think you're all talking about different things.
Are they celebrating? Many of them seem to be
Will it work out well for them in the medium to long term? We will see but I can fully understand the pessimism. With Trump admitting it's about oil and saying they will be paid for the costs involved I am sure the bill is going to be very high and normal people will see a tiny fraction of the money from any oil sold. |
Yes, they’re all talking about two different things because it’s was this administration that done it.
Literally only pointing out that the fact that vast reaction that’s been seen is Venezuelans celebrating has caused them to get excited. It’s not really a surprise Maduru’s removal has been welcomed by that countries people if you look what’s gone on there. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:23 - Jan 4 with 516 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:15 - Jan 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Well there is a Venezuelan community of tens of thousands where I live, so yes, I have seen people driving around celebrating. So no, it’s not a staged small group that’s doing the rounds on the news if that’s what was being implied. Expat communities are celebrating all over the US. |
Fair comment - I might retract my rofl, but you're still talking about a local (to you) ex-pat community as opposed to the people actually living in Venezuela who now face life under an increasingly dangerous foreign colonial invader, explicitly intent on extracting wealth from them. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:31 - Jan 4 with 479 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:18 - Jan 4 by itfcjoe |
“The level of dishonest argument being used in this thread is alarming.”
From what I can see all you disagree with is myself and JJJJ, I’ve made 2 posts on 9 pages. And all I’ve noted is from what I’ve seen a lot of actual Venezuelans seem happy with this news. I’d presume they are on the whole better informed than the posters of TWTD, bar Leitrim who has said his wife is from there.
I just watched some of the Downing Street protest from the professional protestors - talking about how yhe US need to leave to allow the Venezuelans to self determine their future, like it is that easy for them. As always the working classes are a disappointment to the bourgeoisie |
None of which detracts from or answers the point I made.
In fact, it literally reinforces it. |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:40 - Jan 4 with 435 views | J2BLUE |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:20 - Jan 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes, they’re all talking about two different things because it’s was this administration that done it.
Literally only pointing out that the fact that vast reaction that’s been seen is Venezuelans celebrating has caused them to get excited. It’s not really a surprise Maduru’s removal has been welcomed by that countries people if you look what’s gone on there. |
Yea there's been plenty of coverage on UK news about them celebrating.
Trump is increasingly unhinged though isn't he? I fully expect them to demand Greenland, get rejected and then take it anyway. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:41 - Jan 4 with 434 views | pointofblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:20 - Jan 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Yes, they’re all talking about two different things because it’s was this administration that done it.
Literally only pointing out that the fact that vast reaction that’s been seen is Venezuelans celebrating has caused them to get excited. It’s not really a surprise Maduru’s removal has been welcomed by that countries people if you look what’s gone on there. |
I'm sure there are many nations who want to overthrow dictatorial leaders. How many of them is Trump planning to attack? | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:41 - Jan 4 with 428 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:23 - Jan 4 by NthQldITFC |
Fair comment - I might retract my rofl, but you're still talking about a local (to you) ex-pat community as opposed to the people actually living in Venezuela who now face life under an increasingly dangerous foreign colonial invader, explicitly intent on extracting wealth from them. |
Is it increasingly dangerous, why do you think there are so many ex-pats. Think you should probably read up on why life was like under Maduro/Chavez and their arbitrary killings. Given almost the equivalent of a medium sized European country’s population fled the Venezuelan regime it wouldn’t be a surprise to see popular support for the coup, whatever anxiety they have for what comes next.
Over 8m people fled the violence, beatings and oppression there, it’s possible to condemn the action without overlooking a horrendous regime who created one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world and the worlds largest outflow of refugees. Again for clarity I don’t condone the intervention, but let’s not sugar coat the regime, and forget why you could fill Scotland and Wales with the amount of Venezuelan refugees. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:43 - Jan 4 with 415 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:41 - Jan 4 by pointofblue |
I'm sure there are many nations who want to overthrow dictatorial leaders. How many of them is Trump planning to attack? |
I’m not sure, I think there is a policy document somewhere. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:43 - Jan 4 with 417 views | NthQldITFC |
Yes, I'm talking about the increasingly dangerous United States of America, no longer a force for peace and stability. That's the entity I was obviously and specifically referring to there. That should have been very clear, if the water wasn't being muddied. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:44 - Jan 4 with 402 views | pointofblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:43 - Jan 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I’m not sure, I think there is a policy document somewhere. |
True. I think it's based on whether it suits the Trump administration than the people who live there. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:45 - Jan 4 with 400 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:40 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
Yea there's been plenty of coverage on UK news about them celebrating.
Trump is increasingly unhinged though isn't he? I fully expect them to demand Greenland, get rejected and then take it anyway. |
That's a huge step though.
Taking it by force is an attack on another NATO member and an EU member state. Even the EU couldn't turn a blind eye to that.
SB |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:46 - Jan 4 with 397 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:17 - Jan 4 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Are you suggesting there was some kind of public support for Maduru over there with their quality of life post the last sham election? “The majority are not celebrating it” doesn’t really go along with the eye test in their communities. |
Two wrongs don’t make a right and US action is wrong on so many counts. Your comments about Maduro are valid but stop defending the indefensible. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:49 - Jan 4 with 382 views | DJR |
Somebody a bit more learned in this area than me has made more eloquently the point I made earlier.
UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer’s failure to condemn the US’ actions in Venezuela “speaks volumes”, according to Philippe Sands KC, a specialist in international law who served as a prosecutor for Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet after he was arrested in London in 1998.
He said:
"The action against Venezuela is manifestly illegal under international law, and cannot plausibly or by any reasonable standard be characterised as a law enforcement action. What now is the plan? One need only to think of Nicaragua, Afghanistan and Libya, amongst others, to imagine what the consequences might be, and the encouragement it will surely give to others to act with such brazen disregard for the international legal norms that bind us all.
Equally worrisome is the failure of others to condemn. The apparent silence of the British prime minister speaks volumes. Having lived through the catastrophe and criminality of the Iraq war in 2003, which Mr Trump himself has condemned, I would hope that Keir Starmer sticks to the principles of legality to which he says he is so firmly committed." |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:52 - Jan 4 with 368 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:43 - Jan 4 by NthQldITFC |
Yes, I'm talking about the increasingly dangerous United States of America, no longer a force for peace and stability. That's the entity I was obviously and specifically referring to there. That should have been very clear, if the water wasn't being muddied. |
Still not really sure if you are talking about global stability and macro level policy stuff relating to the US, or the daily life of the Venezuelans under Maduru (which was the subject matter). | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:52 - Jan 4 with 366 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:43 - Jan 4 by NthQldITFC |
Yes, I'm talking about the increasingly dangerous United States of America, no longer a force for peace and stability. That's the entity I was obviously and specifically referring to there. That should have been very clear, if the water wasn't being muddied. |
I guess we can at least take solace that for once the UK wasn’t involved (to the best of our knowledge). | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:53 - Jan 4 with 356 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:40 - Jan 4 by J2BLUE |
Yea there's been plenty of coverage on UK news about them celebrating.
Trump is increasingly unhinged though isn't he? I fully expect them to demand Greenland, get rejected and then take it anyway. |
That won’t happen. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:56 - Jan 4 with 345 views | DJR |
It's probably been used before but I read this morning an article that used the phrase rogue superpower in relation to Trump's America..
Seems rather apt for both Trump and Putin, if you can call Russia a superpower. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:56 - Jan 4 with 342 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:41 - Jan 4 by pointofblue |
I'm sure there are many nations who want to overthrow dictatorial leaders. How many of them is Trump planning to attack? |
They are making noises towards Iran now. Given they (and their proxies) are severely weakened, it seems quite probable. | | | |
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