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The reason to stop the boats on 08:55 - Jan 31 by noggin
Oh right, so now it's the mode of transport that's the problem?
The ignorance is astounding.
There are some (though not many) instances of 4 star hotels being used. The point is, they are no longer 4 star hotels at that point. There is no restaurant, or room service, or daily cleaning, or concierge or anything else. Just bare rooms with a bed and a bathroom. To live in. This idea that people are enjoying £200 a night comfort is simply a lie.
And as for the mode of transport? The last government removed all the legal routes to making an asylum application without getting here first. Making it impossible unless you get smuggled across.
The reason to stop the boats on 09:06 - Jan 31 by redrickstuhaart
The ignorance is astounding.
There are some (though not many) instances of 4 star hotels being used. The point is, they are no longer 4 star hotels at that point. There is no restaurant, or room service, or daily cleaning, or concierge or anything else. Just bare rooms with a bed and a bathroom. To live in. This idea that people are enjoying £200 a night comfort is simply a lie.
And as for the mode of transport? The last government removed all the legal routes to making an asylum application without getting here first. Making it impossible unless you get smuggled across.
It’s a problem of the Tories making that this has happened by slashing funding and pushing BREXIT. That said I don’t see it as controversial that anyone arriving undocumented should be detained until we can ascertain who they are, and whether it’s safe. You can’t just waltz into any country without border checks. They are in place for a reason, and undocumented arrival should could otherwise be exploited by Islamic extemists, Russian saboteurs, Iranian spies (believe there already was a case of this), and others with ill intentions.
That doesn’t mean the majority of those arriving are dangerous as implied here, but it does seem like porous borders could be easily exploited. Surely we should be funding an asylum centre in France to deter crossings for these reasons and the safety of those attempting the crossing.
1
The reason to stop the boats on 09:46 - Jan 31 with 384 views
It’s a problem of the Tories making that this has happened by slashing funding and pushing BREXIT. That said I don’t see it as controversial that anyone arriving undocumented should be detained until we can ascertain who they are, and whether it’s safe. You can’t just waltz into any country without border checks. They are in place for a reason, and undocumented arrival should could otherwise be exploited by Islamic extemists, Russian saboteurs, Iranian spies (believe there already was a case of this), and others with ill intentions.
That doesn’t mean the majority of those arriving are dangerous as implied here, but it does seem like porous borders could be easily exploited. Surely we should be funding an asylum centre in France to deter crossings for these reasons and the safety of those attempting the crossing.
Asylum claims should be processed closer to the countries people are fleeing from, don’t have to wait until they get…..
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The reason to stop the boats on 09:53 - Jan 31 with 370 views
With regards to this thread I notice the word ‘racist’ is bandied about against some posters quite freely. They may or may not be, but using this word is a sure way to shut down debate.
It is fear of the word that will stop this government debating it, justifying it, doing anything about it, increasing it etc - inertia. And because of the fear to even touch the topic, they may well allow Farage’s lunatics to fill the gap. It is irrelevant whether people’s fears are rational or not. They exist.
There are some very simple questions I would ask. Why are migrants wanting to flee France, Germany etc for here? They are hardly unsafe destinations. Why is the UK such an attractive destination? Should we adopt the policy of all welcome? (my sister certainly would. She believes the British are responsible for all the poverty in the world and if correcting that means 700m of the world’s poorest are welcomed here so be it, that’s fair and right).
Multiculturalism- do we accept the full implications of that, including adoption of sharia law, honour killings, the right for people to live exactly how they wish regardless of consequences to others, two stage justice systems? Or do we accept that we live in a monoculture under one set of rules that is tolerant of others beliefs and culture - but not to the extent of the previous sentence?
Questions, not answers.
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The reason to stop the boats on 09:55 - Jan 31 with 359 views
With regards to this thread I notice the word ‘racist’ is bandied about against some posters quite freely. They may or may not be, but using this word is a sure way to shut down debate.
It is fear of the word that will stop this government debating it, justifying it, doing anything about it, increasing it etc - inertia. And because of the fear to even touch the topic, they may well allow Farage’s lunatics to fill the gap. It is irrelevant whether people’s fears are rational or not. They exist.
There are some very simple questions I would ask. Why are migrants wanting to flee France, Germany etc for here? They are hardly unsafe destinations. Why is the UK such an attractive destination? Should we adopt the policy of all welcome? (my sister certainly would. She believes the British are responsible for all the poverty in the world and if correcting that means 700m of the world’s poorest are welcomed here so be it, that’s fair and right).
Multiculturalism- do we accept the full implications of that, including adoption of sharia law, honour killings, the right for people to live exactly how they wish regardless of consequences to others, two stage justice systems? Or do we accept that we live in a monoculture under one set of rules that is tolerant of others beliefs and culture - but not to the extent of the previous sentence?
Questions, not answers.
One of the main reasons UK is attractive is language.
What concerns me is the cost to the taxpayer. According to Google AI it costs over £90,000 a year to keep someone in a secure Category A prison. At today’s prices he is going to cost us over £2.5m .
Blaming Tories or Brexit doesn’t help. The problem now lies in the hands of the current government, it is for them to resolve. Sending him back seems an easy solution but how long would it take him to arrive back on another small boat?
The reason to stop the boats on 09:55 - Jan 31 by Pinewoodblue
This thread has taken a predictable course.
What concerns me is the cost to the taxpayer. According to Google AI it costs over £90,000 a year to keep someone in a secure Category A prison. At today’s prices he is going to cost us over £2.5m .
Blaming Tories or Brexit doesn’t help. The problem now lies in the hands of the current government, it is for them to resolve. Sending him back seems an easy solution but how long would it take him to arrive back on another small boat?
It may not help, but it does help highlight how ignorant people are being around the issue. The fact is the same elites that are ruining this country and continuing to avoid blame and scrutiny after their actions are still powerful voices of lies and disinformation.
One of the main issues this government faces is being blamed for something the did not do and not fixing it quick enough. That hugely influences the narrative.
With regards to this thread I notice the word ‘racist’ is bandied about against some posters quite freely. They may or may not be, but using this word is a sure way to shut down debate.
It is fear of the word that will stop this government debating it, justifying it, doing anything about it, increasing it etc - inertia. And because of the fear to even touch the topic, they may well allow Farage’s lunatics to fill the gap. It is irrelevant whether people’s fears are rational or not. They exist.
There are some very simple questions I would ask. Why are migrants wanting to flee France, Germany etc for here? They are hardly unsafe destinations. Why is the UK such an attractive destination? Should we adopt the policy of all welcome? (my sister certainly would. She believes the British are responsible for all the poverty in the world and if correcting that means 700m of the world’s poorest are welcomed here so be it, that’s fair and right).
Multiculturalism- do we accept the full implications of that, including adoption of sharia law, honour killings, the right for people to live exactly how they wish regardless of consequences to others, two stage justice systems? Or do we accept that we live in a monoculture under one set of rules that is tolerant of others beliefs and culture - but not to the extent of the previous sentence?
Questions, not answers.
As regards your penultimate paragraph, we do accept something not dissimilar in relation to the Orthodox Jewish community, and in my view, we are right to do so.
This, for example. from a BBC article.
"For many non-Muslims, the idea of a religious court holding power over British citizens seems totally alien to our mainly-secular culture.
But not to all non-Muslims. It has often been remarked on how similar Muslims and Jews are in many of their traditions, such as food laws, burial rites and language, and this case could prove no exception. Jewish courts are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries.
British Jews, particularly the orthodox, will frequently turn to their own religious courts, the Beth Din, to resolve civil disputes, covering issues as diverse as business and divorce."
At the end of the day, freedom is a core British value, and that must include individuals or groups living their lives as they choose, so long as it doesn't affect others, and leaving aside that there may be some people in all religious communities (especially children) who may be forced to conform to something they don't believe in.
[Post edited 31 Jan 10:34]
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The reason to stop the boats on 10:13 - Jan 31 with 313 views
It’s a problem of the Tories making that this has happened by slashing funding and pushing BREXIT. That said I don’t see it as controversial that anyone arriving undocumented should be detained until we can ascertain who they are, and whether it’s safe. You can’t just waltz into any country without border checks. They are in place for a reason, and undocumented arrival should could otherwise be exploited by Islamic extemists, Russian saboteurs, Iranian spies (believe there already was a case of this), and others with ill intentions.
That doesn’t mean the majority of those arriving are dangerous as implied here, but it does seem like porous borders could be easily exploited. Surely we should be funding an asylum centre in France to deter crossings for these reasons and the safety of those attempting the crossing.
I think it's pretty controversial to say we should detain a whole category of people - tens of thousands of them - because a very, very small minority of them might be criminals. Those who are fleeing countries torn apart by war or corruption, how do you propose that meaningful checks are done to establish who they are and whether they are in the vast majority of applicants who are law abiding or in the small minority who are not?
It’s a problem of the Tories making that this has happened by slashing funding and pushing BREXIT. That said I don’t see it as controversial that anyone arriving undocumented should be detained until we can ascertain who they are, and whether it’s safe. You can’t just waltz into any country without border checks. They are in place for a reason, and undocumented arrival should could otherwise be exploited by Islamic extemists, Russian saboteurs, Iranian spies (believe there already was a case of this), and others with ill intentions.
That doesn’t mean the majority of those arriving are dangerous as implied here, but it does seem like porous borders could be easily exploited. Surely we should be funding an asylum centre in France to deter crossings for these reasons and the safety of those attempting the crossing.
A sensible and reasoned post.
FREE IRAN FROM THE MULLAHS - FREE PALESTINE FROM HAMAS - FREE LEBANON FROM HEZBOLLAH
The reason to stop the boats on 10:13 - Jan 31 by Herbivore
I think it's pretty controversial to say we should detain a whole category of people - tens of thousands of them - because a very, very small minority of them might be criminals. Those who are fleeing countries torn apart by war or corruption, how do you propose that meaningful checks are done to establish who they are and whether they are in the vast majority of applicants who are law abiding or in the small minority who are not?
Indeed, it's a rather nuclear solution to a problem caused by a minority, of the minority! It's like saying we should stop all benefits, of any kind, for everyone as a minority of those receiving PIP are committing fraud to receive them!
Bottom line is, there are wronguns in every cohort of society, there's not much that can be done (sensibly) to mitigate that.
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The reason to stop the boats on 10:26 - Jan 31 with 276 views
With regards to this thread I notice the word ‘racist’ is bandied about against some posters quite freely. They may or may not be, but using this word is a sure way to shut down debate.
It is fear of the word that will stop this government debating it, justifying it, doing anything about it, increasing it etc - inertia. And because of the fear to even touch the topic, they may well allow Farage’s lunatics to fill the gap. It is irrelevant whether people’s fears are rational or not. They exist.
There are some very simple questions I would ask. Why are migrants wanting to flee France, Germany etc for here? They are hardly unsafe destinations. Why is the UK such an attractive destination? Should we adopt the policy of all welcome? (my sister certainly would. She believes the British are responsible for all the poverty in the world and if correcting that means 700m of the world’s poorest are welcomed here so be it, that’s fair and right).
Multiculturalism- do we accept the full implications of that, including adoption of sharia law, honour killings, the right for people to live exactly how they wish regardless of consequences to others, two stage justice systems? Or do we accept that we live in a monoculture under one set of rules that is tolerant of others beliefs and culture - but not to the extent of the previous sentence?
Questions, not answers.
They aren't fleeing France or Germany, that's a really odd way to look at it. They are fleeing their home country and seeking asylum in Europe. Many so stay in Germany and France, and while the UK may have the fifth most asylum applications in Europe overall, per capita we are 17th. The European average of 22 asylum applicants per 10k of population is over a third higher than the UK where the figure is 15 per 10k of population. Despite the constant panic and outrage fuelled by our right wing media and political classes, we are not particularly awash with asylum seekers, certainly not in comparison to our European neighbours.
Unless we think that geography means we should be exempt from doing our bit, we need to start having grown up conversations about building an asylum system that is safe and that works effectively. But that would inevitably require us opening up safe routes and potentially processing centres in Europe and the truth is that some people just don't want us to do our fair share and don't want foreigners coming here.
The reason to stop the boats on 10:26 - Jan 31 by tonybied
Indeed, it's a rather nuclear solution to a problem caused by a minority, of the minority! It's like saying we should stop all benefits, of any kind, for everyone as a minority of those receiving PIP are committing fraud to receive them!
Bottom line is, there are wronguns in every cohort of society, there's not much that can be done (sensibly) to mitigate that.
If we're such a soft touch and everyone wants to come here, how do you explain that by population size there are 16 European countries who receive more asylum applications than us per year?
The reason to stop the boats on 10:13 - Jan 31 by Herbivore
I think it's pretty controversial to say we should detain a whole category of people - tens of thousands of them - because a very, very small minority of them might be criminals. Those who are fleeing countries torn apart by war or corruption, how do you propose that meaningful checks are done to establish who they are and whether they are in the vast majority of applicants who are law abiding or in the small minority who are not?
Really? I’d suggest your position is probably an outlier then because that’s the case across much of Europe including such draconian countries as Denmark and Belgium. If Herbivore arrived in virtually any country avoiding border control you’d be detained whilst they did due diligence on you. I really don’t see how therefore that’s a controversial stance especially at a time when we have a belligerent power waging non-conventional war against Europe.
That doesn’t mean they can’t be treated well in the interim whilst their applications are processed. You may mean well but that view is just going to feed the far right.
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The reason to stop the boats on 11:01 - Jan 31 with 185 views
The reason to stop the boats on 07:21 - Jan 31 by JackNorthStand
Why didn’t this guy stay in France ? Instead paid traffickers to traffic him on a boat across the channel. Because the asylum process in the UK is streamlined in comparison.
And there is no need for name calling I think we can have a conversation without resorting to that, it’s how these threads get out of hand.
Is this a good enough explanation for you??
[Post edited 31 Jan 11:18]
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The reason to stop the boats on 11:47 - Jan 31 with 108 views
The reason to stop the boats on 10:26 - Jan 31 by Benters
One of the main reasons UK is attractive is we are a soft touch.
Indeed, this man was a failed asylum seeker in Germany and de ided to come hhere.He had been here a short while before this horrid crime. All entirely avoidable but there are numerous lawyers, charities, unions and individuals desperate to keep men such as this here.
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The reason to stop the boats on 12:01 - Jan 31 with 73 views
The reason to stop the boats on 10:13 - Jan 31 by Herbivore
I think it's pretty controversial to say we should detain a whole category of people - tens of thousands of them - because a very, very small minority of them might be criminals. Those who are fleeing countries torn apart by war or corruption, how do you propose that meaningful checks are done to establish who they are and whether they are in the vast majority of applicants who are law abiding or in the small minority who are not?
We absolutely should detain them, I would confidently say many have committed crimes to get here and some are a serious risk to the public., especially in their first weeks or months of arrival. I don't care if it's a minority statiscally, the priority is the protection to the UK population.
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The reason to stop the boats on 12:07 - Jan 31 with 61 views
With regards to this thread I notice the word ‘racist’ is bandied about against some posters quite freely. They may or may not be, but using this word is a sure way to shut down debate.
It is fear of the word that will stop this government debating it, justifying it, doing anything about it, increasing it etc - inertia. And because of the fear to even touch the topic, they may well allow Farage’s lunatics to fill the gap. It is irrelevant whether people’s fears are rational or not. They exist.
There are some very simple questions I would ask. Why are migrants wanting to flee France, Germany etc for here? They are hardly unsafe destinations. Why is the UK such an attractive destination? Should we adopt the policy of all welcome? (my sister certainly would. She believes the British are responsible for all the poverty in the world and if correcting that means 700m of the world’s poorest are welcomed here so be it, that’s fair and right).
Multiculturalism- do we accept the full implications of that, including adoption of sharia law, honour killings, the right for people to live exactly how they wish regardless of consequences to others, two stage justice systems? Or do we accept that we live in a monoculture under one set of rules that is tolerant of others beliefs and culture - but not to the extent of the previous sentence?
Questions, not answers.
'Multiculturalism- do we accept the full implications of that, including adoption of sharia law, honour killings, the right for people to live exactly how they wish regardless of consequences to others, two stage justice systems? Or do we accept that we live in a monoculture under one set of rules that is tolerant of others beliefs and culture - but not to the extent of the previous sentence?
Questions, not answers.'
First of all, the killing the OP mentions is nothing to do with how that person got here or why they came here. We should we able to have an honest debate about immigration but that goes for both sides.
To answer your question, we have our laws and they should be respected. People should not come here and expect to live by their own separate laws and values. If you cannot respect our laws and liberal democracy you should not be allowed to live here. I have the same opinion whether it's Muslims coming from Afghanistan or Christians from the US. Respect our laws, culture and values or you should not be allowed in.
The reason to stop the boats on 09:55 - Jan 31 by Pinewoodblue
This thread has taken a predictable course.
What concerns me is the cost to the taxpayer. According to Google AI it costs over £90,000 a year to keep someone in a secure Category A prison. At today’s prices he is going to cost us over £2.5m .
Blaming Tories or Brexit doesn’t help. The problem now lies in the hands of the current government, it is for them to resolve. Sending him back seems an easy solution but how long would it take him to arrive back on another small boat?
Yes, I’m surprised we haven’t deported him. But as I mentioned earlier, the mum is happy he’s being locked up as she feels they are getting some justice. We’d need good agreements and collaboration with his home country if he were to be deported and detained there instead. Without that he’d just be escaping any sort of justice. And Brits get held in the countries where they offend all the time, so I suppose that’s just the way of it. We probably just need to accept it as a necessary cost of a functioning (barely) justice system. In the grand scheme of of things, 1 person is probably no a big deal.
The reason to stop the boats on 10:31 - Jan 31 by Herbivore
If we're such a soft touch and everyone wants to come here, how do you explain that by population size there are 16 European countries who receive more asylum applications than us per year?
When adjusted for population size. Fifth for total number of applications.
Edit: Sorry, seen your post above where you say this.
The reason to stop the boats on 08:04 - Jan 31 by Mullet
Then you have to admit you are in the tiniest of minorities, as the vast majority of people who share your views are openly and appallingly racist. The rhetoric and accusations are racist by design when you read it.
The sad issue is, very few people want anyone taking small boats across the channel but their motivations vary wildly. I've taught a fair few of these immigrants from all over the world, most of them just want to live and have a chance away from the horrors they've escaped.
But it is easier to broadbrush all of them, we've got a hotel down the road. A couple of dozen rounabout painters have been down there showing off on social media and causing issues. The immigrants in the hotel haven't. Yet every time something happens in the community they're the first target. It doesn't show us in the best light if you ask me either.
The previous government absolutely screwed up this situation, Brexit made it worse. The two groups most responsible for it are now promising to fix it and demonising those with the job of trying to clear it up.
They're also the people have damaged the system you're talking about beyond repair - threads like this show that people are looking at the wrong things, the people and the wrong ideas to fix what they're claiming they care so much about.
Just wanted to reply and say whilst we disagree I respect you engaging sensible conversation and you’ve made your points valid by giving reasoning. It’s refreshing!
Just to end on a bright note - Ipswich 3 Preston 1 today. Enjoy the game!
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