| Starmer is a dead man walking 12:37 - Feb 4 with 16072 views | hype313 |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:11 - Feb 4 with 1136 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 19:56 - Feb 4 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I guess we need to thank you for cheerleading someone less popular than Teresa May, and giving us Boris and all the other useless w”””s that followed.
When dogma > electoral success. |
Haha incredible.
The entire state of UK politics and the country's decline is because of ...
JEROmbly Corrbynns!
These are your guys in charge. Own it! |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:11 - Feb 4 with 1134 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 19:11 - Feb 4 by Dubtractor |
I would agree that May's campaign was sensationally bad and Corbyn, for all his faults, was a good campaigner. |
2 big turning points in that election. The first one was the "Dementia Tax" in order to fund social care. She was so confident with a 20%+ lead that she thought she could afford to piss of some of her natural voters and still win a large majority.
The second was the two major terrorist attacks in Manchester and London Bridge, which brought intense scrutiny to her record as Home Secretary. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:12 - Feb 4 with 1133 views | jasondozzell |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 19:58 - Feb 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Just so long as you ignore the "friends from Hamas and Hezbollah", the “idea that an organisation [Hamas] that is dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people and long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region should be labelled as a terrorist organisation by the British government is really a big mistake", the blood money from Iranian state TV, the praise of Iran's, “Tolerance and acceptance of other faiths, traditions and ethnic groupings in Iran.” (yeah try telling that to the Kurds or the 30,000+ Iranians murdered this month) and the guilty verdict by the EHRC of "unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination over antisemitism within its ranks", then he'd be the very epitome of modern democratic socialism.
How soon people forget. Or ignore. [Post edited 4 Feb 20:13]
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Please educate yourself.
Try Peter Oborne as a starting point. | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:20 - Feb 4 with 1096 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:12 - Feb 4 by jasondozzell |
Please educate yourself.
Try Peter Oborne as a starting point. |
I've been reading Peter Oborne for years before you'd even heard his name. Oborne is an Assad apologist and Muslim Brotherhood defender who lost all credibility years ago. But please feel free to point out any inaccuracies in my previous post. Oh I also left out Corbyn's support of the IRA and his constant praise for Maduro.
Edit. I took your advice, went back and read Peter Oborne.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/de
"Corbyn has behaved with grotesquely bad judgment in other areas. Above all, he has spent his entire political life supporting terrorist groups and governments hostile to the UK and our allies".
"This week, with a heavy heart, I changed my mind. I’m now convinced that there is something detestable about Corbyn’s politics which make it impossible to defend him any more".
"Among several examples, the first concerned Christine Shawcroft, Labour’s head of discipline who was forced to resign after it emerged that she had defended a Labour councillor accused of sharing an article on Facebook which claimed the Holocaust was a ‘hoax’. This proves that the poison of anti-Semitism has spread into the heart of the Corbyn Labour Party."
"We also learnt that Corbyn himself has been a member of five online groups which have propagated anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, such as that the number of deaths at Auschwitz has been exaggerated and that Israelis have harvested the organs of Arab children. Also, they have posted links to the loathsome views of white supremacists, including the leader of the Ku Klux Klan".
"It was an image of which the Nazis would have been proud.Yet Corbyn disingenuously defended it on the grounds of free speech! And this from a man who claims he wants to promote ‘a kinder, gentler politics’.
"Corbyn’s dreadful lack of judgment over anti-Semitism — and his weaselly attempt at an apology this week — shows that he is unworthy to be an MP, let alone lead a great political party".
[Post edited 4 Feb 21:06]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:23 - Feb 4 with 1081 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:17 - Feb 4 by giant_stow |
This one never makes sense to me tbh. What does a stat like *a* party's vote total say without the context of how other party's did in those elections? |
Your point was that Corbyn couldn't persuade people to vote for Labour, whereas the stats show the opposite; more people voted for Labour under his leadership than Starmer's.
The context is that Labour were extremely lucky to win a massive majority in 2024 because the Tories lost more votes to Reform than Labour did to the Greens. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:26 - Feb 4 with 1070 views | SonOfSpock |
Apparently when Liebour got into government the 'adults were in the room' .
Has been found out as the sanctimonious pr1kc he is. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:45 - Feb 4 with 1001 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:26 - Feb 4 by SonOfSpock |
Apparently when Liebour got into government the 'adults were in the room' .
Has been found out as the sanctimonious pr1kc he is. |
Liebour - did you think of that one yourself? |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:54 - Feb 4 with 969 views | giant_stow |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:23 - Feb 4 by Clapham_Junction |
Your point was that Corbyn couldn't persuade people to vote for Labour, whereas the stats show the opposite; more people voted for Labour under his leadership than Starmer's.
The context is that Labour were extremely lucky to win a massive majority in 2024 because the Tories lost more votes to Reform than Labour did to the Greens. |
This is a really odd way of looking at things. Ignoring the results of other parties in a general election is like saying if ITFC get 90 points in a given season, they should win the league. What about the other sides and how many points they get?
Labout lost those elections or in other words didnt persuade enough people to vote for them. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:15 - Feb 4 with 902 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 19:09 - Feb 4 by lowhouseblue |
the electoral context matters. a different leader in 2017 might even have won - although, again, the election was only called because the tories had a 20% lead based primarily on corbyn's unpopularity. the car crash that may then created is hard now to believe and largely explained the final numbers. |
With 52% of the population voting for Brexit, and Brexit not delivered, I don't think it would have been possible for Labour to win whoever the leader was given its general reluctance to accept the Brexit vote.
And this article from More In Common in 2016 indicates the adverse electoral consequences of Labour being solidly pro-remain.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec
"Labour’s stridently pro-EU stance could alienate Labour voters who oppose British EU membership, leading many of them to turn away from the party at the next general election. Meanwhile, the fact that the Conservatives straddle the issue will allow them to appeal to both sides and emerge from the referendum campaign in a much stronger position than Labour." [Post edited 4 Feb 21:30]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:24 - Feb 4 with 856 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 18:32 - Feb 4 by lowhouseblue |
labour seats:
2017: 262. outcome: tory government
2019: 202. outcome: tory government
2024: 411. outcome: labour government
2017 was a weird election. tories had a huge lead and assumed that they would stroll to victory over corbyn. corbyn's unpopularity was a large part of why the election was called then. the tory campaign was a car crash and people mostly voted for corbyn as a protest without ever believing he'd be pm. |
Leaving aside the fact there is something wrong with an electoral system in which a party can get only 33% of the vote and get such a stonking majority (and this at a time when its vote in Scotland had recovered), it seemed to me that Labour were doomed from the start with such little popularity at a time when the Tories were about as unpopular as you can get.
The Ming vase strategy might have worked in terms of Westminster seats but it was a total failure in terms of setting out a Labour narrative or inspiring people to vote for them. And it has meant that there was never enough headroom when, as inevitably would be the case, things went against them. [Post edited 4 Feb 21:29]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:24 - Feb 4 with 854 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 20:54 - Feb 4 by giant_stow |
This is a really odd way of looking at things. Ignoring the results of other parties in a general election is like saying if ITFC get 90 points in a given season, they should win the league. What about the other sides and how many points they get?
Labout lost those elections or in other words didnt persuade enough people to vote for them. |
I find if odd that you are ignoring the actual number of people voting for a party when repeatedly claiming that not persuading enough people to vote for that party was the problem.
You're now doing the equivalent of saying that the manager who led the club to a 90-point total was rubbish, just because there happened to be two other teams who got unusually high points totals that season.
I really don't understand the refusal to see the wider context. If huge numbers of former Tory voters hadn't peeled off to vote for Reform in 2024, the election would have been a fairly heavy defeat for Labour. | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:30 - Feb 4 with 831 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:24 - Feb 4 by Clapham_Junction |
I find if odd that you are ignoring the actual number of people voting for a party when repeatedly claiming that not persuading enough people to vote for that party was the problem.
You're now doing the equivalent of saying that the manager who led the club to a 90-point total was rubbish, just because there happened to be two other teams who got unusually high points totals that season.
I really don't understand the refusal to see the wider context. If huge numbers of former Tory voters hadn't peeled off to vote for Reform in 2024, the election would have been a fairly heavy defeat for Labour. |
Of they 2019 Tory voters, 53% still voted Tory, 24% voted Reform and 23% voted Labour, Lib Dem and Green. So nearly as many Tory votes went to other parties other than Reform, 12% of whom voted Labour. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:37 - Feb 4 with 804 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:15 - Feb 4 by DJR |
With 52% of the population voting for Brexit, and Brexit not delivered, I don't think it would have been possible for Labour to win whoever the leader was given its general reluctance to accept the Brexit vote.
And this article from More In Common in 2016 indicates the adverse electoral consequences of Labour being solidly pro-remain.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec
"Labour’s stridently pro-EU stance could alienate Labour voters who oppose British EU membership, leading many of them to turn away from the party at the next general election. Meanwhile, the fact that the Conservatives straddle the issue will allow them to appeal to both sides and emerge from the referendum campaign in a much stronger position than Labour." [Post edited 4 Feb 21:30]
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Point of order: Not all of the population are entitled to vote, those under 18 (or sometimes 16 in Scotland), prisoners and those who don't get themselves on the electoral roll are part of the population but not the electorate. And then there are those registered but who decide not to vote. So the vote to Leave the European Union may have been just below 52% of those who voted but was around 37% of the electorate and 27% of the population.
Google gives me:
'In the 2016 EU referendum, the result was 51.9% to 48.1% in favor of Leave, based on votes cast. However, when calculated as a percentage of the entire UK population (including those not eligible to vote), the results represent a different figure.
Leave Vote: Approximately 26.5% of the total UK population voted to leave the EU.
Remain Vote: Approximately 24.6% of the total UK population voted to remain in the EU.
Eligible Voters: The 17.4 million who voted to leave represented 37% of the total registered electorate.
The turnout for the referendum was 72.2%, with 33.6 million votes cast out of 46.5 million registered voters. The total population of the UK at the time was approximately 65.6 million. ' |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:44 - Feb 4 with 778 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:15 - Feb 4 by DJR |
With 52% of the population voting for Brexit, and Brexit not delivered, I don't think it would have been possible for Labour to win whoever the leader was given its general reluctance to accept the Brexit vote.
And this article from More In Common in 2016 indicates the adverse electoral consequences of Labour being solidly pro-remain.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec
"Labour’s stridently pro-EU stance could alienate Labour voters who oppose British EU membership, leading many of them to turn away from the party at the next general election. Meanwhile, the fact that the Conservatives straddle the issue will allow them to appeal to both sides and emerge from the referendum campaign in a much stronger position than Labour." [Post edited 4 Feb 21:30]
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52% of the population did not vote for Brexit.
17,410,742 voted for it out of an electorate of approximately 45 million. So approximately 38% of the electorate voted for it.
I would guess that a large percentage of people regret voting for it and so I’m not sure Labour’s stance on the EU is that significant. Plus, prior to leaving, the EU wasn’t really high on the agenda of most voters. | | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:55 - Feb 4 with 753 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:52 - Feb 4 by WeWereZombies |
Sorry but this 'will of the people' misnomer still rankles with me even though I now accept that it all water under the bridge and some new form of European alliance is imminent. As far as your follow on point I was always puzzled about Cameron not putting a minimum percentage of say two thirds for the vote to hold, for such an important issue you would have thought that a convincing majority was necessary to change the subsisting order of the past forty years or so. But maybe a simple majority was part of the Conservative strategy to keep Leave and Remain voters in their fold (including a forthcoming Prime Minister writing papers from both perspectives just in case he changed his mind at the last minute...) |
I very much doubt they thought about it enough to worry about thresholds. Cameron though it was a done deal, the savvy political operator that he was 🤨 |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:58 - Feb 4 with 748 views | DJR |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:52 - Feb 4 by WeWereZombies |
Sorry but this 'will of the people' misnomer still rankles with me even though I now accept that it all water under the bridge and some new form of European alliance is imminent. As far as your follow on point I was always puzzled about Cameron not putting a minimum percentage of say two thirds for the vote to hold, for such an important issue you would have thought that a convincing majority was necessary to change the subsisting order of the past forty years or so. But maybe a simple majority was part of the Conservative strategy to keep Leave and Remain voters in their fold (including a forthcoming Prime Minister writing papers from both perspectives just in case he changed his mind at the last minute...) |
I don't think Cameron ever thought he would lose.
Johnson coming out for Brexit was the gamechanger (to use another word I don't like) in my view.
As regards the "will of the people" expression I suppose those behind the Brexit campaign would say that. But on the other hand, the "people's vote" campaign always struck me (a staunch remainer) as totally undemocratic. Far better to have campaigned for a softer Brexit, which was a possible option when May gave a series of free votes. But I think the Lib Dems put the kibosh on that. [Post edited 4 Feb 21:59]
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 22:27 - Feb 4 with 685 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:58 - Feb 4 by DJR |
I don't think Cameron ever thought he would lose.
Johnson coming out for Brexit was the gamechanger (to use another word I don't like) in my view.
As regards the "will of the people" expression I suppose those behind the Brexit campaign would say that. But on the other hand, the "people's vote" campaign always struck me (a staunch remainer) as totally undemocratic. Far better to have campaigned for a softer Brexit, which was a possible option when May gave a series of free votes. But I think the Lib Dems put the kibosh on that. [Post edited 4 Feb 21:59]
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Why Cameron and his pals hadn't learnt the lesson from nearly breaking up the Union from another ill judged referendum a few years before tells a story. |  | | |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 22:45 - Feb 4 with 651 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:44 - Feb 4 by MattinLondon |
52% of the population did not vote for Brexit.
17,410,742 voted for it out of an electorate of approximately 45 million. So approximately 38% of the electorate voted for it.
I would guess that a large percentage of people regret voting for it and so I’m not sure Labour’s stance on the EU is that significant. Plus, prior to leaving, the EU wasn’t really high on the agenda of most voters. |
BBC doing all they can to help Steve Bannon’s assets
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 04:42 - Feb 5 with 508 views | Benters |
Good and take the whole useless party with him. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 04:43 - Feb 5 with 509 views | Benters |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 13:17 - Feb 4 by Pinewoodblue |
The problem with calling an election is that Labour policy seems to be concentrated on why people shouldn’t support Reform.. it should be about why we should vote Labour.
They seem to be getting everything wrong these days. It shouldn’t be about Reform it should be about getting traditional Labour supporters to vote. May elections will be a disaster for Labour and it won’t be because people vote Reform.it will be due to not getting the Labour voters to vote. |
If we are allowed to vote…. | |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 06:09 - Feb 5 with 479 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer is a dead man walking on 21:58 - Feb 4 by DJR |
I don't think Cameron ever thought he would lose.
Johnson coming out for Brexit was the gamechanger (to use another word I don't like) in my view.
As regards the "will of the people" expression I suppose those behind the Brexit campaign would say that. But on the other hand, the "people's vote" campaign always struck me (a staunch remainer) as totally undemocratic. Far better to have campaigned for a softer Brexit, which was a possible option when May gave a series of free votes. But I think the Lib Dems put the kibosh on that. [Post edited 4 Feb 21:59]
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"I don't think Cameron ever thought he would lose."
He was told/warned oftn enough by Donald Tusk, then President of the EU, that he was running a high risk of catastrophic failure (ie that the Leave would prevail in the vote).
But nope, he wasn't going to listen, his arrogance & selfishness in putting his & his tory cronies' greed & party interests ahead of his country were always going to over-ride wise advice. |  |
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| Starmer is a dead man walking on 07:12 - Feb 5 with 433 views | Texaco73 |
Some points for consideration:
The controlled trickle release of Epstein files is a useful weapon to undermine democracy. The latest batch targeted Andrew Mountbatten and Mandleson.
Why?
Causing civil unrest in the UK is in the interest of who and why?
Join those dots and the the bigger picture of the "new world order" makes sense. |  | | |
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