| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:26 - Feb 5 with 2745 views | SitfcB |
That assist stat rubbish is skewed though as doubt that includes the ‘assists’ for the own goals we’ve benefited from, which is 5 isn’t it? |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:30 - Feb 5 with 2675 views | BlueDouglas |
They make a good case for us being a bit predictable this season, definitely felt that vs Preston |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:31 - Feb 5 with 2666 views | TheBoyBlue |
It's pointless comparing this season to two seasons ago. Back then we hit the ground running with a team that had been together for a year or two already and we're full of confidence from the previous season's promotion and clearly we caught quite a few by surprise.
This season we were starting with a large number of strangers coming into a team and club that was on a low following relegation. And this time the league has been ready for us.
Besides all that, it's not the points total of two years ago we're chasing now, it's the points totals of Coventry, Middlesbrough and Hull City. |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:33 - Feb 5 with 2639 views | BlueDouglas |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:31 - Feb 5 by TheBoyBlue |
It's pointless comparing this season to two seasons ago. Back then we hit the ground running with a team that had been together for a year or two already and we're full of confidence from the previous season's promotion and clearly we caught quite a few by surprise.
This season we were starting with a large number of strangers coming into a team and club that was on a low following relegation. And this time the league has been ready for us.
Besides all that, it's not the points total of two years ago we're chasing now, it's the points totals of Coventry, Middlesbrough and Hull City. |
think the posters point was more around 'readiness' for the prem if we were to be promoted this season vs last time around | |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:41 - Feb 5 with 2541 views | TheBoyBlue |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:33 - Feb 5 by BlueDouglas |
think the posters point was more around 'readiness' for the prem if we were to be promoted this season vs last time around |
I think we would be far more ready this time. The 2024 promotion squad was undoubtedly good, but it was arguably playing above itself, which was what made it so marvelous. But the players and club weren't anywhere near ready for the Premier League.
If we go up this season, we'll have a much better idea of what we need and I believe the set up to get the players that we need, plus we wouldn't have to be distracted by all that faffing about getting stadium up to scratch and that sort of stuff.
That's not to say I think we will definitely stay up and I honestly can't read the future and say we'd do any better than last time, but we ought to be in far better position if we went up this year or even next. | |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:42 - Feb 5 with 2529 views | bluefunk |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:26 - Feb 5 by SitfcB |
That assist stat rubbish is skewed though as doubt that includes the ‘assists’ for the own goals we’ve benefited from, which is 5 isn’t it? |
It’s a set of stats cherry picked to support an opinion, and ignoring the fact that he completely fails to recognise KMs adaptability. He does have a point about pace of play, it again that’s an opinion, rather than a fact. |  | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:49 - Feb 5 with 2446 views | Exiled2Surrey |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:26 - Feb 5 by SitfcB |
That assist stat rubbish is skewed though as doubt that includes the ‘assists’ for the own goals we’ve benefited from, which is 5 isn’t it? |
You are too kind - the whole thing is nonsense
to get the obvious contradictions out of the way first:
- we are too reliant on individuals - we therefore need to bring in an individual (a striker)?
- we are better defensively than we were - being defensive is boring to watch so is not the solution
- we had a bad experience in the PL last time because we were unprepared with a team used to playing front foot football - we should therefore do that again
But thinking about the point about our goals, the thesis is that we create nothing (hence no assists) and rely on a few worldies from individuals - whereas I think the general perception is that we create but don't convert!
I therefore had a quick look at Fotmob to see which players had the largest expected assist value (to the extent that this is a sensible statistic) and Ipswich have more players in the top 20 than any other club with 4. Perhaps most interestingly the player who ranked 19 in the division and 4 at the club is Kasey McAteer!
well that was time well spent... | | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:58 - Feb 5 with 2351 views | JakeITFC |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:30 - Feb 5 by BlueDouglas |
They make a good case for us being a bit predictable this season, definitely felt that vs Preston |
We had the same criticisms levelled at us in drops in form in the League One and Championship promotion seasons though - League One we can't break down a low block and out defenders just pass it back and forth to one another, Championship we are so predictable because we just try and get to the byline and cut it back every time.
Sometimes it's just hard to beat teams that don't want to be beaten. We are performing well on all the metrics that we should be (except probably putting away big chances we create). |  | | |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:14 - Feb 5 with 2229 views | Exiled2Surrey |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:58 - Feb 5 by JakeITFC |
We had the same criticisms levelled at us in drops in form in the League One and Championship promotion seasons though - League One we can't break down a low block and out defenders just pass it back and forth to one another, Championship we are so predictable because we just try and get to the byline and cut it back every time.
Sometimes it's just hard to beat teams that don't want to be beaten. We are performing well on all the metrics that we should be (except probably putting away big chances we create). |
Regarding the predictable point, I dont buy it - just from memory (apologies if I have missed anything) and in no particular order:
- Kipre missed two headers (three if you include the one they scored from!)
- The Hirst chance was a great through ball and chance, as was the ball to Clarke in the first half
- Clarke missed one of the cut back onto your right foot chances in the first half
- Azon overhead kick
- Cajuste shot from outside the box
- mehmeti shot into the side netting
- Mehmeti "offside"
- Goal mouth scramble towards the end of the second half
I just dont think we just do the same thing over and over. We do spend time with the ball at the back trying to move teams around, but after that all-sorts can happen. However, we could do with doing things a bit more precisely and more rapidly | | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:14 - Feb 5 with 2227 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:49 - Feb 5 by Exiled2Surrey |
You are too kind - the whole thing is nonsense
to get the obvious contradictions out of the way first:
- we are too reliant on individuals - we therefore need to bring in an individual (a striker)?
- we are better defensively than we were - being defensive is boring to watch so is not the solution
- we had a bad experience in the PL last time because we were unprepared with a team used to playing front foot football - we should therefore do that again
But thinking about the point about our goals, the thesis is that we create nothing (hence no assists) and rely on a few worldies from individuals - whereas I think the general perception is that we create but don't convert!
I therefore had a quick look at Fotmob to see which players had the largest expected assist value (to the extent that this is a sensible statistic) and Ipswich have more players in the top 20 than any other club with 4. Perhaps most interestingly the player who ranked 19 in the division and 4 at the club is Kasey McAteer!
well that was time well spent... |
The whole thing is poor analysis - I'm not even convinced they referred to a reliable data/stats source to build their proposition.
It feels awfully like confirmation bias is at play here - they started with an 'opinion' and looked to create some stats that backed it up. | | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:19 - Feb 5 with 2197 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Complete load of nonsense tbh. |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:41 - Feb 5 with 2069 views | Meadowlark |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:19 - Feb 5 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Complete load of nonsense tbh. |
That's the sort of well constructed reasoning we like to see...  |  | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:47 - Feb 5 with 2012 views | NedPlimpton |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:33 - Feb 5 by BlueDouglas |
think the posters point was more around 'readiness' for the prem if we were to be promoted this season vs last time around |
I hate bringing them up, but were Sunderland "ready for the prem" or did they just buy a whole new team?
I think the prem readiness stuff is a bit ridiculous. How can you be prem ready in the championship? It's a completely different league with a completely different set of challenges. No proven PL players are dropping to the championship these days, and you can't adapt your style of play to be prem ready as you'll just face a "low block" each week. How else can you get prem ready other than back office stuff, which we're doing anyway! |  | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:50 - Feb 5 with 1977 views | TheBoyBlue |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:47 - Feb 5 by NedPlimpton |
I hate bringing them up, but were Sunderland "ready for the prem" or did they just buy a whole new team?
I think the prem readiness stuff is a bit ridiculous. How can you be prem ready in the championship? It's a completely different league with a completely different set of challenges. No proven PL players are dropping to the championship these days, and you can't adapt your style of play to be prem ready as you'll just face a "low block" each week. How else can you get prem ready other than back office stuff, which we're doing anyway! |
You're absolutely right, but from our perspective I think we ought to be more ready than we were last time, partly having experienced first-hand now but also because we should have more of the off-field stuff set up like greater overseas scouting network and the training ground. | |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 14:53 - Feb 5 with 1958 views | itfcsuth |
Some valid points made - individual performances have got us over the line at times, not collective team performances, and factually we have gone backwards since 2 years ago, and with investments made it makes it a double whammy.
But also some questionable points made, particularly around KMc 1D approach, imo that’s nonsense, he tactically makes adjustments, it doesn’t always play out, but he’s not afraid to make adjustments, even in games he can make two or three tweaks, maybe subtle and go unnoticed but the one dimensional nonsense is just guff frankly. |  | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 15:00 - Feb 5 with 1898 views | CopfordBlue |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:33 - Feb 5 by BlueDouglas |
think the posters point was more around 'readiness' for the prem if we were to be promoted this season vs last time around |
Others will disagree but I think that if we go up we’ll be far better equipped next season than last. 23/24 was all about momentum, continuity, teamwork and belief. An incredible season from arguably my favourite (not best, favourite) Ipswich team. The current squad has far more depth and individual quality. We’ve beaten the league leaders convincingly, twice. In 23/24 the games against the teams around us showed us to be lacking the individual quality needed to compete. Yes we beat Southampton (what a night at Portman Road) and somehow drew twice with Leicester but we were nowhere near their level in terms of technical ability [Post edited 5 Feb 15:01]
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 15:28 - Feb 5 with 1746 views | Swansea_Blue |
It seems a lot of words to say we’re less cohesive than last time and not doing quite as well, but I like looking at the comparison stats so I won’t be too harsh.
Wanting a repeat of 23/24 is reaching for the stars a bit. That was a ridiculously good season of the like you see once in a generation. But there’s no denying we’re more clunky and predictable this season. It’s not all to do with management/coaching. Clarke and Philogene are not players who will suddenly stop being selfish on the ball. It’s not in their DNA. And while they’re banging them in and others are missing sitters, I wouldn’t want them to change either. |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 15:30 - Feb 5 with 1734 views | cressi |
A interesting read with stats to back it up.
Although I'm Not a stat man my eyes still work and Although we have spent millions we often look slow pondous and a unbalanced outfit absolutely relying on our two left wingers where only one can play. Wingers who have stopped Davis been Davis. I've never believed McKenna is God like some here. I appreciate what he has done but will be surprised if we go up automatically as a team only Coventry away have I seen this crop of players look like a team for ninety minutes. | | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 15:42 - Feb 5 with 1625 views | Garv |
A lot of words in there and a few stats. Some might see merit in them, some won't.
Bottom line is, and I remember saying it that day against Huddersfield, nothing will ever beat 23/24.
We're no less predictable now than we were that season. I remember late in games where we passed the ball around for ages seemingly getting nowhere, but for whatever reason we often found a way. I know it's boring by now but I still think Morsy is a bigger miss than some realise, even accounting for how good Azor has been. He drove us forward, physically and mentally.
Regarding PNE on Saturday, I struggle to see a bad word said about the performance really. To suggest we struggle against the low block, based on that game, is pretty crazy. We created a number of good chances that were missed, that doesn't happen it you're struggling to break teams down. It just means you haven't taken your chances. |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 15:56 - Feb 5 with 1491 views | Smoresy |
Don't wish to dismiss the many opinions outlined there. On a couple of points, however...
Ricco acknowledges the difference between actual and percentage assists in an earlier paragraph, but then conflates or muddies the two when employing more persuasive rhetoric to summarise that section:
"As mentioned, there is only one team this season that has fewer goals coming from assists, that is Sheffield Wednesday… I think that says enough..."
We're joint 13th in team assists and, as advanced above by others, it would be misleading to ignore kinder factors that help account for our low percentage. Two are indisputable, own goals and penalties. We've scored 2-5 more penalties than the rest of the league and have benefitted from 1-4 more own goals, in addition to scoring 1-2 more direct free-kicks than most. Adjust these numbers to the league average, or award credit for the team play that contributed to these "extraneous" goals, and our assists percentage would clearly be improved for doing so.
Then you have "expected assists", coupled with our poor conversion rate in all positions except for L10, where we have two of the league's most clinical players. This shifts the emphasis from team play to our finishing. Exculpate the assisters, incriminate those who have shot on goal and don't carry the surname Clarke, Philogene, or Burns. If we could rewind time and achieve just average finishing from the others, this would simultaneously improve all of the alarming charts that Ricco submits into evidence. | | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 17:18 - Feb 5 with 1252 views | homer_123 |
"Also, call it my subjective opinion, but McKenna has only one way of playing and to be honest… that is simply not good enough… and that one way of playing is also simply not good enough."
I've lost count how many times I have heard this. It is patently, wholly, utterly and completely untrue. Probably more than anything it is this that I find this the most frustrating comment from fans, it's lazy.
During KM's tenure....we have seen:
A back 4, a back 3, a back 5.
A back 4, a back 3, a back 5 in the same game.
We've seen Davis play as a full back, wing back winger and inside forward.
We've seen Davis and Harry Clarke bomb forward, leaving 2 at the back.
We've seen Morsey or Luongo drop and cover in that left back position for Davis as he roams.
We've seen us play out from the back, slowly methodically looking to play through the lines.
We've seen us go long and direct, for Burns or Hirst/ Delap to get in behind.
We've looked to stick it direct to a target man Hirst and Moore for example.
We've played intricate pass and move.
We've played diagonals, cross field long balls.
We've seen Greaves playing in the oppos box and getting to the byline to cut a ball back.
I can go on......
About the only thing you can say about KM is that he hasn't played 2 up top. On paper - it may invariably look like 4-2-3-1 (not always in Prem) but we are much more fluid if you watch us play and how we actually move about the pitch in and our of possession. |  |
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 17:24 - Feb 5 with 1210 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 17:18 - Feb 5 by homer_123 |
"Also, call it my subjective opinion, but McKenna has only one way of playing and to be honest… that is simply not good enough… and that one way of playing is also simply not good enough."
I've lost count how many times I have heard this. It is patently, wholly, utterly and completely untrue. Probably more than anything it is this that I find this the most frustrating comment from fans, it's lazy.
During KM's tenure....we have seen:
A back 4, a back 3, a back 5.
A back 4, a back 3, a back 5 in the same game.
We've seen Davis play as a full back, wing back winger and inside forward.
We've seen Davis and Harry Clarke bomb forward, leaving 2 at the back.
We've seen Morsey or Luongo drop and cover in that left back position for Davis as he roams.
We've seen us play out from the back, slowly methodically looking to play through the lines.
We've seen us go long and direct, for Burns or Hirst/ Delap to get in behind.
We've looked to stick it direct to a target man Hirst and Moore for example.
We've played intricate pass and move.
We've played diagonals, cross field long balls.
We've seen Greaves playing in the oppos box and getting to the byline to cut a ball back.
I can go on......
About the only thing you can say about KM is that he hasn't played 2 up top. On paper - it may invariably look like 4-2-3-1 (not always in Prem) but we are much more fluid if you watch us play and how we actually move about the pitch in and our of possession. |
Say it louder for those at the back.
It is genuinely staggering people can watch us play every single week and still not realise this. I think lots of people think if you play one formation in the main, that is it, you are rigid, you have no plan B, you can't change games. I do genuinely think people want us to whack 2 strikers on, pump it forward and hope a ball drops. No serious team is doing that. [Post edited 5 Feb 17:25]
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| Interesting post by a Town fan on 17:28 - Feb 5 with 1183 views | bsw72 |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 15:56 - Feb 5 by Smoresy |
Don't wish to dismiss the many opinions outlined there. On a couple of points, however...
Ricco acknowledges the difference between actual and percentage assists in an earlier paragraph, but then conflates or muddies the two when employing more persuasive rhetoric to summarise that section:
"As mentioned, there is only one team this season that has fewer goals coming from assists, that is Sheffield Wednesday… I think that says enough..."
We're joint 13th in team assists and, as advanced above by others, it would be misleading to ignore kinder factors that help account for our low percentage. Two are indisputable, own goals and penalties. We've scored 2-5 more penalties than the rest of the league and have benefitted from 1-4 more own goals, in addition to scoring 1-2 more direct free-kicks than most. Adjust these numbers to the league average, or award credit for the team play that contributed to these "extraneous" goals, and our assists percentage would clearly be improved for doing so.
Then you have "expected assists", coupled with our poor conversion rate in all positions except for L10, where we have two of the league's most clinical players. This shifts the emphasis from team play to our finishing. Exculpate the assisters, incriminate those who have shot on goal and don't carry the surname Clarke, Philogene, or Burns. If we could rewind time and achieve just average finishing from the others, this would simultaneously improve all of the alarming charts that Ricco submits into evidence. |
There was an interesting article about Hull City a week or so ago, talking about how they are outperforming XG etc. McBurnie and Gelhardt are massively outperforming the xG "stats", and as a result are dragging them up the table.
https://www.ntt20.com/p/lucky-
Stats are a great tool for identifying trends, averages and similar data sets to benchmark performance, but are of less use in sport prediction and analysis where often the difference between sides is a moment of individual brilliance.
It's true we are in the position we are in because of some moments of brilliance from the likes of Philogene and Clarke - but the point that seems to be missed is *THAT IS WHY WE BOUGHT THEM*, to deliver those special moments, to ignore that fact misses the point of sport and why we watch and love it surely? |  | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 17:33 - Feb 5 with 1161 views | OldFart71 |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 13:33 - Feb 5 by BlueDouglas |
think the posters point was more around 'readiness' for the prem if we were to be promoted this season vs last time around |
I would say our team, just the first 11 is possibly half a dozen players short of being ready for the Premier League. It is obvious given the club bid on another right winger that they feel we are light there.
Then there's the number 9 and probably 10 where we are short.
Given that we have a loan player brought in for the rest of the season we are short in midfield probably by two.
Young will probably go at the end of the season and do we have a top class keeper at the club ? | | | |
| Interesting post by a Town fan on 17:38 - Feb 5 with 1151 views | Illinoisblue |
This and almost all other frustration at this season can be summed up thus: “it’s just not as fun as last time.” That is essentially it. Along with the fact football fans are never really happy. We used to have Hirst and Chappers’ golf celebration. Now it’s Clarke cupping his ears.
We will finish this season either in the top two, or in the playoffs with a good chance of playing at ‘new’ Wembley for the first time.
We play in a smart, renovated stadium, on an expensive magnificent pitch.
Our new state of the art multi-million pound training center is being built.
We have rich and ambitious owners.
And yet, it’s just not enough! Yes our recruitment needs to be questioned. Yes, we’re probably slightly underachieving albeit doing better than the teams we were relegated with.
But to see memes on twitter produced by town fans purely to mock our players… that’s not entitlement, that’s being a c**t. COYB |  |
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