| The split in the far-right vote 04:10 - Feb 18 with 19732 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Great to see. Albeit Lowe on Twitter is disturbing.
Anyone on here willing to admit they would vote Restore? Makes Farage and his lot look moderate in comparison some of that nazi sh** coming from Lowe. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 12:44 - Feb 20 with 634 views | bartyg |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:38 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
how about we all just accept that views that are different to our own are honestly and legitimately held and do not imply any moral or intellectual failing. then we can just discuss stuff cos we're interested in it rather than trying to prove who's the better person. radical eh. |
I'm afraid not all views are tolerable in a tolerant society |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:45 - Feb 20 with 623 views | J2BLUE |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:38 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
how about we all just accept that views that are different to our own are honestly and legitimately held and do not imply any moral or intellectual failing. then we can just discuss stuff cos we're interested in it rather than trying to prove who's the better person. radical eh. |
Agree with the sentiment but Chico would say up was down and left is right if everyone else was saying the opposite.
Just going against the majority opinion on almost everything to make yourself feel more intelligent is just odd. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 12:49 - Feb 20 with 595 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:15 - Feb 20 by vapour_trail |
I know the fella who runs border force.
They absolutely don’t do it all the time. |
I guess your mate Dave down the pub who totally runs Border Force trust me bro knows better than this; https://www.gov.uk/government/
“Border Force … is effectively rescuing people and then escorting them into port…” |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 12:54 - Feb 20 with 571 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:45 - Feb 20 by J2BLUE |
Agree with the sentiment but Chico would say up was down and left is right if everyone else was saying the opposite.
Just going against the majority opinion on almost everything to make yourself feel more intelligent is just odd. |
The views expressed on here by the brains trust on this debate for eg are a (loud) majority on the board, a minority IRL. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 12:55 - Feb 20 with 561 views | bartyg |
| The split in the far-right vote on 06:00 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
I mean, you did ask. Money can always be found for this stuff so resourcing won’t be a problem especially if we don’t have to pay millions on housing welfare and legal aid for asylum seekers. It’s really easy operationally by informed accounts “not even in the top 100 most difficult problems” if we are out of the ECHR. Once we stop importing lots of men from some of the worst places in the world, perhaps we can then start banging up and deporting the ones who are part of the grooming gangs. |
You're getting a lot of pelters for this and I just want to add that I think there should be more. Just say you don't like brown people with your chest. | | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:56 - Feb 20 with 558 views | leitrimblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:21 - Feb 20 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well on a TV show they don't really have the time to go back too far. And it does obviously take a lot more research (and expense). My uncle was doing it for decades.
You seem to be doubting me, but it would be a weird thing to make up.
He actually got back as far as 1038 I think (he was telling me at my dad's funeral). Certainly before they came over, but then records are even harder to trace for someone in the UK. |
Would obviously depend on yer family circumstances and probably their 'standing' in society. Norman aristocracy would leave a much larger trace then say a Suffolk land worker.
Roughly the higher in status your Family were during the medieval period the longer back your likely to be able to trace yer descendants. |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:58 - Feb 20 with 549 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:41 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
Clearly it is possible to pick up some (I’ve never said it is possible to pick up all of them now). They do it all the time. So it becomes a question of resources, as perhaps you are alluding to when you mention planes. |
The split in the far-right vote by chicoazul 20 Feb 6:00I mean, you did ask. Money can always be found for this stuff so resourcing won’t be a problem especially if we don’t have to pay millions on housing welfare and legal aid for asylum seekers. It’s really easy operationally by informed accounts “not even in the top 100 most difficult problems” if we are out of the ECHR. Once we stop importing lots of men from some of the worst places in the world, perhaps we can then start banging up and deporting the ones who are part of the grooming gangs.
What percentage of crossings would you think is a reasonable amount to stop them?
You suggest “10 cutters”, I believe the Border Force have 11 vessels in the area.
10 vessels is not enough to patrol that section of the English Channel, have a look on Marine Traffic at the English Channel and see how many vessels are transiting the area. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 12:59 - Feb 20 with 534 views | lowhouseblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:44 - Feb 20 by bartyg |
I'm afraid not all views are tolerable in a tolerant society |
yes we have laws which properly limit freedom of speech. but, a tolerant society has by definition to embrace disagreement, so your aphorism, while having a nice repeated sound, is nonsense. only tolerating things you agree with isn't tolerance. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:05 - Feb 20 with 520 views | StokieBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:59 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
yes we have laws which properly limit freedom of speech. but, a tolerant society has by definition to embrace disagreement, so your aphorism, while having a nice repeated sound, is nonsense. only tolerating things you agree with isn't tolerance. |
As a general point, it's been made clear that a good number of people "on one side of the debate" don't actually want to have a debate which involves evidence and facts.
In that case, where the debate is fundamentally dishonest, it's wrong to push "but both sides" no matter how many times you do it.
Embracing disagreement doesn't mean accepting lies, falsehoods and nonsense.
SB |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:05 - Feb 20 with 515 views | lowhouseblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:49 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
I guess your mate Dave down the pub who totally runs Border Force trust me bro knows better than this; https://www.gov.uk/government/
“Border Force … is effectively rescuing people and then escorting them into port…” |
'effectively rescuing people and then escorting them into port' is much less dangerous than effectively taking people into custody against their will in the middle of the north sea. as i said before, no sane home secretary would be prepared to take on the risk involved. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:06 - Feb 20 with 507 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:58 - Feb 20 by NewcyBlue |
The split in the far-right vote by chicoazul 20 Feb 6:00I mean, you did ask. Money can always be found for this stuff so resourcing won’t be a problem especially if we don’t have to pay millions on housing welfare and legal aid for asylum seekers. It’s really easy operationally by informed accounts “not even in the top 100 most difficult problems” if we are out of the ECHR. Once we stop importing lots of men from some of the worst places in the world, perhaps we can then start banging up and deporting the ones who are part of the grooming gangs.
What percentage of crossings would you think is a reasonable amount to stop them?
You suggest “10 cutters”, I believe the Border Force have 11 vessels in the area.
10 vessels is not enough to patrol that section of the English Channel, have a look on Marine Traffic at the English Channel and see how many vessels are transiting the area. |
Border force have 11 vessels, half of which are in dock almost all the time. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:09 - Feb 20 with 498 views | bartyg |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:59 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
yes we have laws which properly limit freedom of speech. but, a tolerant society has by definition to embrace disagreement, so your aphorism, while having a nice repeated sound, is nonsense. only tolerating things you agree with isn't tolerance. |
There are issues on which I don't believe we can have fundamental disagreements, and nearly all concern the rights of other human beings.
Can see why you'd take exceptions regarding the rights of minorities though. | | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:10 - Feb 20 with 497 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:05 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
'effectively rescuing people and then escorting them into port' is much less dangerous than effectively taking people into custody against their will in the middle of the north sea. as i said before, no sane home secretary would be prepared to take on the risk involved. |
Chico - disembark the small boats passengers at sea
TWTD brains trust - hurr durr Chico you POS how do you propose to do that in the channel you don’t know what you’re talking about racist idiot
Chico - border force already do it | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:12 - Feb 20 with 483 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:55 - Feb 20 by bartyg |
You're getting a lot of pelters for this and I just want to add that I think there should be more. Just say you don't like brown people with your chest. |
Pakistan and Afghanistan are some of the worst places in the world. Why people feel the need to argue this point I have no idea, it can only be ignorance of what happens to women gay people and religious minorities in those countries. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:16 - Feb 20 with 456 views | bartyg |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:12 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
Pakistan and Afghanistan are some of the worst places in the world. Why people feel the need to argue this point I have no idea, it can only be ignorance of what happens to women gay people and religious minorities in those countries. |
And the answer is to persecute the citizens? Many asylum seekers are fleeing for those exact reasons. | | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:16 - Feb 20 with 452 views | J2BLUE |
| The split in the far-right vote on 12:54 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
The views expressed on here by the brains trust on this debate for eg are a (loud) majority on the board, a minority IRL. |
Yes, immigration is an issue. I don't deny that. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:19 - Feb 20 with 441 views | lowhouseblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:05 - Feb 20 by StokieBlue |
As a general point, it's been made clear that a good number of people "on one side of the debate" don't actually want to have a debate which involves evidence and facts.
In that case, where the debate is fundamentally dishonest, it's wrong to push "but both sides" no matter how many times you do it.
Embracing disagreement doesn't mean accepting lies, falsehoods and nonsense.
SB |
'fundamentally dishonest", "lies", "falsehoods" and "nonsense" in political discussion are all essentially subjective labels. they're just used to shut down discussion.
but, equally, if people don't want to debate then don't debate with them. if they don't provide evidence then they you've shown that they don't have a convincing case.
it comes down to the importance of recognising our own subjectivity and accepting that in many instances, when things are complex and multi-dimensional such as in political debate, truth is uncertain and legitimately disputed. politics can't be reduced to truth and lies. that's basic theory of knowledge stuff. [Post edited 20 Feb 13:27]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:19 - Feb 20 with 443 views | Herbivore |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:10 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
Chico - disembark the small boats passengers at sea
TWTD brains trust - hurr durr Chico you POS how do you propose to do that in the channel you don’t know what you’re talking about racist idiot
Chico - border force already do it |
Even you can't possibly be this dumb. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:22 - Feb 20 with 410 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:19 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Even you can't possibly be this dumb. |
The seeds of doubt always begin with insults. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:25 - Feb 20 with 403 views | eireblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:10 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
Chico - disembark the small boats passengers at sea
TWTD brains trust - hurr durr Chico you POS how do you propose to do that in the channel you don’t know what you’re talking about racist idiot
Chico - border force already do it |
Chico Independent thinker.
That thing that they are doing, that isn’t working, just do more of it.
Brilliant.
Let us not forget we are talking about humans, making decisions to risk their lives to get in a small boat and cross the channel.
And let us not forget, some attempt it more than once after being sent back to France.
Having an additional 10 patrol boats doesn’t stop someone getting in boat. On a beach somewhere at sometime in France.
So,
All the independent thinkers seem to be coming up with, is spend more money to do more of something that isn’t working, that won’t stop people getting into a small boat in France.
I think independent is the wrong word. |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:26 - Feb 20 with 398 views | Herbivore |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:22 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
The seeds of doubt always begin with insults. |
Ah okay, maybe you are so dumb you can't see that there's a significant difference between primarily escorting some boats to port and attempting to mass disembark all small boat crossings in the middle of the Channel. Perhaps I gave you too much credit. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:26 - Feb 20 with 395 views | lowhouseblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:09 - Feb 20 by bartyg |
There are issues on which I don't believe we can have fundamental disagreements, and nearly all concern the rights of other human beings.
Can see why you'd take exceptions regarding the rights of minorities though. |
don't know what the last line is meant to mean. i assume it's just an insult - so, well done you.
of course rights and conflicts between different rights are an entirely legitimate area for debate and disagreement. how could they not be - that's a large part of what all politics, law and legal theory are all about. i don't think you've thought that one through. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:29 - Feb 20 with 381 views | StokieBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:19 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
'fundamentally dishonest", "lies", "falsehoods" and "nonsense" in political discussion are all essentially subjective labels. they're just used to shut down discussion.
but, equally, if people don't want to debate then don't debate with them. if they don't provide evidence then they you've shown that they don't have a convincing case.
it comes down to the importance of recognising our own subjectivity and accepting that in many instances, when things are complex and multi-dimensional such as in political debate, truth is uncertain and legitimately disputed. politics can't be reduced to truth and lies. that's basic theory of knowledge stuff. [Post edited 20 Feb 13:27]
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"'fundamentally dishonest", "lies", "falsehoods" and "nonsense" in political discussion are all essentially subjective labels. they're just used to shut down discussion."
You repeatedly say this but it's not true. If you can't support your position with evidence then some of those tags are valid.
"but, equally, if people don't want to debate then don't debate with them. if they don't provide evidence then they you've shown that they don't have a convincing case."
This has worked brilliantly hasn't it, the world is currently a great place with regards to non-evidence based political debate.
You just seem to want to give people with views that are clear lies a free pass - I disagree and will continue to disagree because that attitude has a lot to do with where we are now.
SB | | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:31 - Feb 20 with 369 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 13:26 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Ah okay, maybe you are so dumb you can't see that there's a significant difference between primarily escorting some boats to port and attempting to mass disembark all small boat crossings in the middle of the Channel. Perhaps I gave you too much credit. |
They don’t primarily escort in the manner you describe, they literally do what I said; disembark from their vessel to Border Force ones. This is because the dingoes are not seaworthy. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 13:33 - Feb 20 with 362 views | NthQldITFC |
Am I an independent thinker? |  |
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