| The split in the far-right vote 04:10 - Feb 18 with 17493 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Great to see. Albeit Lowe on Twitter is disturbing.
Anyone on here willing to admit they would vote Restore? Makes Farage and his lot look moderate in comparison some of that nazi sh** coming from Lowe. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 16:18 - Feb 20 with 1077 views | vapour_trail |
| The split in the far-right vote on 14:15 - Feb 20 by NewcyBlue |
So what percentage of crossings would be acceptable to intercept?
Yes, it does happen. With aircraft used as spotters. It’s how migrant boats off Africa heading into the Atlantic get picked up.
It’s very difficult to spot dinghies and small craft in a seaway.
You don’t need more patrol boats, it’s drones and aircraft that will find the small craft and then the patrol boats can get to them.
Yes, migrants are taken on board the patrol boats, usually overloaded small craft, unseaworthy, where it would be dangerous to carry on the voyage.
More patrol boats won’t help. And there are already helicopters and drones above the English Channel checking the sulphur emissions from ships to make sure compliant fuel is being used. |
BF air spotters are used more for law enforcement than locating vessels, it’s about capturing images of wronguns. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 16:19 - Feb 20 with 1070 views | vapour_trail |
| The split in the far-right vote on 15:54 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
So they make every effort to avoid it but yes Chico you were right all along disembarking from vessel to vessel is possible and does happen and I’m sorry for calling you stupid. |
You are funny. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 16:21 - Feb 20 with 1058 views | eireblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 16:06 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Are you still trying to claim that something they avoid doing unless they absolutely have to, something which the one piece of evidence you've provided has said is unsafe and not something they should be doing, is in fact a practical and workable solution? Because if you are, that's not independent thinking, that's being a berk. |
Maybe we should do this. Let’s take Chico’s independently thought out idea, and do a bit of role play.
Let’s say I am a teenager in Afghanistan, me and my brother, decide top go to England, cause you know, I’ll get £6.50 a week, and beside my parents are dead.
So first I try and get out of Afghanistan. Taliban don’t actually like people doing this so you know they beat people up and kill them, unfortunately that happens to my brother, he dead.
Now Iranians seem to be shooting Afghan migrants on the border, a bit tricky, but only a few people get shot.
Luckily the next border, it’s a little way off, but in Turkey when they find you they tend to just break arms and legs and dump you back into Iran, so yea not so bad.
Turkey, is also quite large, but yep get a cross there and take a boat to Europe, it can be a bit choppy and some people don’t make it. Or get caught and sent back.
So Europe, not so bad, I am getting a bit peckish now, it has been 2 years since I left but now I am on a French beach, kinda hoping to get to the U.K., since my second cousin was trying to get there as well.
I am about to get in a dingy, and then, a clearly independent thinker, taps me on the shoulder and says, “mate, they put on another couple of boats, if they see you, and you get caught you’ll only have try again”
So will she get in the boat, or be deterred, what would a hungry 16 year old with nothing to lose do.
Be scared by Chico’s extra boats, and do what instead…?
You know, I really don’t think Chico means the same thing we do when he says independent thinker. |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 16:53 - Feb 20 with 989 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 16:06 - Feb 20 by Herbivore |
Are you still trying to claim that something they avoid doing unless they absolutely have to, something which the one piece of evidence you've provided has said is unsafe and not something they should be doing, is in fact a practical and workable solution? Because if you are, that's not independent thinking, that's being a berk. |
I’m saying what you and others say can’t be done, is done. [Post edited 20 Feb 16:54]
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| The split in the far-right vote on 20:16 - Feb 20 with 875 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 16:18 - Feb 20 by vapour_trail |
BF air spotters are used more for law enforcement than locating vessels, it’s about capturing images of wronguns. |
They do assist, by spotting the migrant vessels they will the have more of a chance of finding the source of said vessel.
The point is, it’s not just patrol boats. I’ve taken part in SAR at sea, and without aircraft it’s damned difficult. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 20:18 - Feb 20 with 858 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 20:16 - Feb 20 by NewcyBlue |
They do assist, by spotting the migrant vessels they will the have more of a chance of finding the source of said vessel.
The point is, it’s not just patrol boats. I’ve taken part in SAR at sea, and without aircraft it’s damned difficult. |
Good to see you back on here newcy. How's the latest edition to the family getting on? |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 20:45 - Feb 20 with 828 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 20:18 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Good to see you back on here newcy. How's the latest edition to the family getting on? |
Hello mate, the bairn is weaning at the moment and she wants food! I’m back at sea so am missing all the fun! She’s an absolute unit!
How are you doing mate? | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 20:54 - Feb 20 with 791 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 20:45 - Feb 20 by NewcyBlue |
Hello mate, the bairn is weaning at the moment and she wants food! I’m back at sea so am missing all the fun! She’s an absolute unit!
How are you doing mate? |
All good up here mate. Keep us safe from those pirates. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 00:24 - Feb 21 with 708 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The split in the far-right vote on 14:04 - Feb 20 by lowhouseblue |
most of politics is about choices, priorities and managing conflicts. very little in politics comes down to true or false. opposing views are legitimately held.
yes, trump lies. he provably says things he knows to be false. but there are lots of things he says that people label as a lie when they really mean that they disagree with or reject what he has said. knowing the difference is really important.
knowing someone else's intention is highly subjective - it primarily reflects our pre-existing opinion of that person.
your "but both sides" is a distortion of what i'm saying. i'm not saying that individually and collectively (as electors etc) we don't have to come down on one side or the other - just that even when we have rejected the other side it doesn't make it illegitimate.
i guess we won't ever agree on this. fine. but being aware of our own subjectivity and rejecting absolutist approaches to truth and knowledge is pretty fundamental to a civilised society. the lack of that, as much as anything else, is at the core of our current divisiveness. |
Same old Lowhouse giving legitimacy to the far right and authoritarians.
Stokie, many have had these debates with him.
You are wasting your time.
In his world every viewpoint, however vile, dishonest and destructive must be accepted and is only subjectively wrong. |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 03:35 - Feb 21 with 649 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 16:53 - Feb 20 by chicoazul |
I’m saying what you and others say can’t be done, is done. [Post edited 20 Feb 16:54]
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I’m telling you, it’s not as easy as you appear to think it is.
Search and rescue operations are difficult and dangerous at the best of times. Granted I do it from a much bigger vessel than border force do.
They have all sorts to consider when doing it, state of weather, tide, capacity of the the vessel including the infirmary, security, safety of own vessel and crew, safety precautions when recovering from a small craft, preparing to recover persons from the water if needs be including treating for cold water immersion, traffic (it is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world!).
There will be reporting to VTS, MRCC, UK and French authorities.
It’s not like they can just sail up and down picking people up and dropping them back off in France.
It’s a complicated operation and won’t be fixed by more patrol boats. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 04:34 - Feb 21 with 630 views | Benters |
| The split in the far-right vote on 00:24 - Feb 21 by reusersfreekicks |
Same old Lowhouse giving legitimacy to the far right and authoritarians.
Stokie, many have had these debates with him.
You are wasting your time.
In his world every viewpoint, however vile, dishonest and destructive must be accepted and is only subjectively wrong. |
I’d say for the point of balance that Lowhouse is a decent and fair poster. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 08:53 - Feb 21 with 553 views | Herbivore |
| The split in the far-right vote on 03:35 - Feb 21 by NewcyBlue |
I’m telling you, it’s not as easy as you appear to think it is.
Search and rescue operations are difficult and dangerous at the best of times. Granted I do it from a much bigger vessel than border force do.
They have all sorts to consider when doing it, state of weather, tide, capacity of the the vessel including the infirmary, security, safety of own vessel and crew, safety precautions when recovering from a small craft, preparing to recover persons from the water if needs be including treating for cold water immersion, traffic (it is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world!).
There will be reporting to VTS, MRCC, UK and French authorities.
It’s not like they can just sail up and down picking people up and dropping them back off in France.
It’s a complicated operation and won’t be fixed by more patrol boats. |
Good to see you, Newcy. Think we're all wasting our time on this one though. Debating with Chico is like watching someone loudly shit themselves in public and then declare that everyone else is a loser because their underwear isn't full of wonderful liquid gold. |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 09:08 - Feb 21 with 523 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 04:34 - Feb 21 by Benters |
I’d say for the point of balance that Lowhouse is a decent and fair poster. |
It amuses me too much to keep chucking this quip back at Lowers. I just get childlike glee from it. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 09:09 - Feb 21 with 521 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 08:53 - Feb 21 by Herbivore |
Good to see you, Newcy. Think we're all wasting our time on this one though. Debating with Chico is like watching someone loudly shit themselves in public and then declare that everyone else is a loser because their underwear isn't full of wonderful liquid gold. |
Maybe I should concede, my 20 years at sea pales in comparison… | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:16 - Feb 21 with 448 views | Benters |
| The split in the far-right vote on 09:08 - Feb 21 by NewcyBlue |
It amuses me too much to keep chucking this quip back at Lowers. I just get childlike glee from it. |
I remember him saying that he isn’t wrong though 🤓😂 | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:21 - Feb 21 with 437 views | lowhouseblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 00:24 - Feb 21 by reusersfreekicks |
Same old Lowhouse giving legitimacy to the far right and authoritarians.
Stokie, many have had these debates with him.
You are wasting your time.
In his world every viewpoint, however vile, dishonest and destructive must be accepted and is only subjectively wrong. |
you really don't get it at all do you. it's very very sad. it's critical thinking 101 - our views are subjective, in politics and social science there is little absolute truth since instead we're choosing between multi-dimensional alternatives with complex and uncertain trade-offs. disagreement is not only legitimate, it is how we progress.
instead you seem to want certainty, a tribe to belong to and the chance to shout slogans. it's politics as pre-enlightenment religion - an absolutist assertion of your moral superiority. it is everything that is wrong with online politics - the intolerance, the closed-mindedness, the divisiveness, the tribalism, the policing of non-conformity. the puritans would have been proud.
the only way to have civil debate is to admit the possibility of civil debate.
to be clear - only in a religion does someone gets to declare views that differ from their own to be vile, dishonest and destructive. in the post enlightenment world we need evidence and debate to prove it. just decreeing some view to be illegitimate isn't enough. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:25 - Feb 21 with 420 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:21 - Feb 21 by lowhouseblue |
you really don't get it at all do you. it's very very sad. it's critical thinking 101 - our views are subjective, in politics and social science there is little absolute truth since instead we're choosing between multi-dimensional alternatives with complex and uncertain trade-offs. disagreement is not only legitimate, it is how we progress.
instead you seem to want certainty, a tribe to belong to and the chance to shout slogans. it's politics as pre-enlightenment religion - an absolutist assertion of your moral superiority. it is everything that is wrong with online politics - the intolerance, the closed-mindedness, the divisiveness, the tribalism, the policing of non-conformity. the puritans would have been proud.
the only way to have civil debate is to admit the possibility of civil debate.
to be clear - only in a religion does someone gets to declare views that differ from their own to be vile, dishonest and destructive. in the post enlightenment world we need evidence and debate to prove it. just decreeing some view to be illegitimate isn't enough. |
"....an absolutist assertion of your moral superiority. "
Loltastic. From the person who has never backed down/been wrong about anything! |  |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:25 - Feb 21 with 420 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 09:08 - Feb 21 by NewcyBlue |
It amuses me too much to keep chucking this quip back at Lowers. I just get childlike glee from it. |
We'll get Lowers on the Jägerbombs like you and I did in Glasgow mate. He's definitely one of the good guys ion here. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:35 - Feb 21 with 400 views | lowhouseblue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:25 - Feb 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"....an absolutist assertion of your moral superiority. "
Loltastic. From the person who has never backed down/been wrong about anything! |
i'm not sure that's a fair test. the clock strikes 13 every time anyone on here actually backs down. it's how the place works. in real life i'm extremely flexible - i even like the new furniture layout in the white horse. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:38 - Feb 21 with 391 views | chicoazul |
| The split in the far-right vote on 03:35 - Feb 21 by NewcyBlue |
I’m telling you, it’s not as easy as you appear to think it is.
Search and rescue operations are difficult and dangerous at the best of times. Granted I do it from a much bigger vessel than border force do.
They have all sorts to consider when doing it, state of weather, tide, capacity of the the vessel including the infirmary, security, safety of own vessel and crew, safety precautions when recovering from a small craft, preparing to recover persons from the water if needs be including treating for cold water immersion, traffic (it is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world!).
There will be reporting to VTS, MRCC, UK and French authorities.
It’s not like they can just sail up and down picking people up and dropping them back off in France.
It’s a complicated operation and won’t be fixed by more patrol boats. |
Did I say it is easy? Or not complicated? I did not. I said it happens. Which everyone seems to be agreeing with me about. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 10:43 - Feb 21 with 372 views | JackNorthStand |
| The split in the far-right vote on 03:35 - Feb 21 by NewcyBlue |
I’m telling you, it’s not as easy as you appear to think it is.
Search and rescue operations are difficult and dangerous at the best of times. Granted I do it from a much bigger vessel than border force do.
They have all sorts to consider when doing it, state of weather, tide, capacity of the the vessel including the infirmary, security, safety of own vessel and crew, safety precautions when recovering from a small craft, preparing to recover persons from the water if needs be including treating for cold water immersion, traffic (it is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world!).
There will be reporting to VTS, MRCC, UK and French authorities.
It’s not like they can just sail up and down picking people up and dropping them back off in France.
It’s a complicated operation and won’t be fixed by more patrol boats. |
One way to support this is by spotting them on the beach in France, before the boats set off. Tracking them is a lot more straightforward than finding them. |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:47 - Feb 21 with 359 views | StokieBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:43 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
One way to support this is by spotting them on the beach in France, before the boats set off. Tracking them is a lot more straightforward than finding them. |
So you want the UK to undertake surveillance of the entire French channel coastline? Do you think the French would be happy with that?
France takes more asylum seekers than we do as do 13th other countries in Europe on a per capita basis.
SB |  | | |
| The split in the far-right vote on 11:00 - Feb 21 with 327 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:25 - Feb 21 by GlasgowBlue |
We'll get Lowers on the Jägerbombs like you and I did in Glasgow mate. He's definitely one of the good guys ion here. |
Yeah sorry about that. The sailor in me likes a drink! | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 11:02 - Feb 21 with 315 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 11:00 - Feb 21 by NewcyBlue |
Yeah sorry about that. The sailor in me likes a drink! |
The drinking side of you sailor habits was the least of my worries. | |
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| The split in the far-right vote on 11:05 - Feb 21 with 306 views | NewcyBlue |
| The split in the far-right vote on 10:38 - Feb 21 by chicoazul |
Did I say it is easy? Or not complicated? I did not. I said it happens. Which everyone seems to be agreeing with me about. |
It’ll never be able to happen to a scale where it can stop all small boat crossings.
It’s what you seemed to be alluding to originally and have appeared to have changed tack to “well they’re are able to stop some”.
Apologies if I misunderstood. | |
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