| This Farage debacle. 12:52 - Mar 29 with 1141 views | OldFart71 |
Are those that are still raising this issue over Nigel Farage visit in danger of serious repercussions regarding the clubs ability to see the remaining games through and a return to the Premier League.
I believe they are as the players and staff at PR cannot be immune from all that is going on and it may affect their concentration and ability to perform at their best if protests are present at games and this thing continues to rumble on.
MA has apologised, whether you believe it is sincere or not is of no consequence.
Politicians continually tell lies and gaslight and whilst there is no excuse it happens.
We don't need to destroy the club from within as there are many outside ready to do that.
I would beg supporters not to protest at games. By all means write to MA and make your feelings known. But pull together for our team. |  | | |  |
| This Farage debacle. on 12:56 - Mar 29 with 1081 views | NedPlimpton |
This almost feels like it was written by Ashton
Blame someone else ✔️
Just accept that people lie/gaslight and be comfortable with it ✔️
Now let's move on and get behind the team ✔️ |  | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 12:57 - Mar 29 with 1074 views | TheMoralMajority |
Yes, it's the fans. Not the actions of the club leadership, I'm glad you have cleared that up.
"MA has apologised, whether you believe it is sincere or not is of no consequence."
I would have to disagree with this. Empty apologies may be enough for you, but they are not enough for me and many others.
I will ask you what I have asked many other people now and have yet to receive an answer to (not an answer that I am happy with, but an answer at all). What is the stated action that he is demonstrably apologising for?
"We don't need to destroy the club from within as there are many outside ready to do that. "
I would argue that it is not the fanbase that are destroying the club from within. Whichever side of this argument you land on, this divide has been caused by a few individuals at the top of our club, not by the fans.
"I would beg supporters not to protest at games. By all means write to MA and make your feelings known. But pull together for our team. "
I 100% agree with this, Any protest, if there were to even be one, should be handled in such a way that it should not be detrimental to the team. KM and the team are completely blameless in this entire unsavoury affair. |  |
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| This Farage debacle. on 13:03 - Mar 29 with 1020 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
How dare you tell me it is of no consequence whether his apology is sincere or not.
There is only one acceptable course of action after what has happened. Ashton has to go. That's it.
We cannot believe anything that comes out of the club whilst he is in charge.
If he had been genuinely sorry, he would have apologised on Tuesday, and not put out a BS story pretending that it was a privately organised event that lasted no more than 30 minutes. The man is a charlatan. He has deceived us, and lost our trust. So no, it isn't over, it's not going away. It has caused huge damage to the club, and is continuing to do so. And almost certainly will damage our on field performances.
If he had an ounce of decency, he's resign. But the owners need to act, if he won't. |  |
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| This Farage debacle. on 13:41 - Mar 29 with 896 views | StokieBlue |
Not like you to have a truly terrible take on a subject.
Oh, hang on.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| This Farage debacle. on 13:51 - Mar 29 with 850 views | itfc_bucks |
Hi Mark.
No, in seriousness, there are more important things than whether or not Town get promoted.
Resistance to and rejection of the creeping insidiousness of the Far Right is one of those things.
You're welcome to your opinion.
I utterly reject it | |
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:09 - Mar 29 with 768 views | Westcountryblue |
| This Farage debacle. on 13:41 - Mar 29 by StokieBlue |
Not like you to have a truly terrible take on a subject.
Oh, hang on.
SB |
Stokie, why do most of your posts on here seem to be highly personal and look to hit below the belt? The way you respond to people on here that don't share the same opinion as you is incredibly aggressive. | | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:14 - Mar 29 with 745 views | TheMoralMajority |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:09 - Mar 29 by Westcountryblue |
Stokie, why do most of your posts on here seem to be highly personal and look to hit below the belt? The way you respond to people on here that don't share the same opinion as you is incredibly aggressive. |
I cannot speak for Stokie, but I would not be surprised if it was from years of being ground down by people not engaging with him in good faith when he might have done with them in the past.
As an example, I have responded to you, several times, with what I believe are reasonable arguments as to where you and I disagree. I have not been insulting, I have tried to remain measured. Whether or not I agree with your viewpoint, I have tried to engage with it at face value.
However, you chose not to respond to the measured arguments, and instead respond to the perceived insult, whilst meanwhile doubling down on your 'fans are to blame' narrative.
I'm not drawing any conclusions from that, but it is food for thought. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:15]
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:15 - Mar 29 with 728 views | MattinLondon |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:09 - Mar 29 by Westcountryblue |
Stokie, why do most of your posts on here seem to be highly personal and look to hit below the belt? The way you respond to people on here that don't share the same opinion as you is incredibly aggressive. |
That reply from Stokie was about as aggressive as a sliding tackle from Tony Dinning. |  | | |
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:22 - Mar 29 with 687 views | Swansea_Blue |
Apparently some of the staff and players are fecked off too. I suspect that will have a much bigger bearing than what some of the fans do. |  |
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:23 - Mar 29 with 683 views | StokieBlue |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:09 - Mar 29 by Westcountryblue |
Stokie, why do most of your posts on here seem to be highly personal and look to hit below the belt? The way you respond to people on here that don't share the same opinion as you is incredibly aggressive. |
You've posted a lot lately and I think without a lot of historical context. This poster is relentless negative and also has some views that myself and others have taken issue with. I would argue it wasn't even aggressive given some stuff flying around here and you just wanted to single me out to start an argument.
If I may now ask you a question, why are you refusing to engage with my points on the other thread in favour of ignoring them because they don't suit your viewpoint? You've dismissed anyone who doesn't agree with your view including the best source we have, a respected international news agency.
I only have low opinions of people when they don't engage in good faith, it would be unfortunate if you went that way.
SB
Edit: I see another poster has made the same point about your debating, perhaps best to look at ones self before making statements about others. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:24]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:40 - Mar 29 with 620 views | Westcountryblue |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:23 - Mar 29 by StokieBlue |
You've posted a lot lately and I think without a lot of historical context. This poster is relentless negative and also has some views that myself and others have taken issue with. I would argue it wasn't even aggressive given some stuff flying around here and you just wanted to single me out to start an argument.
If I may now ask you a question, why are you refusing to engage with my points on the other thread in favour of ignoring them because they don't suit your viewpoint? You've dismissed anyone who doesn't agree with your view including the best source we have, a respected international news agency.
I only have low opinions of people when they don't engage in good faith, it would be unfortunate if you went that way.
SB
Edit: I see another poster has made the same point about your debating, perhaps best to look at ones self before making statements about others. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:24]
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To imply that "one has one's head in the sand" feels a little insulting to me and actually makes me hesitant to engage in open, respectful debate, where contrasting views can be challenged, but not in a way that implies one argument is superior to the other.
Since you asked, I'm not disputing much of the evidence. Farage was allowed into the club, I'm assuming he was allowed to film and, yes, I do agree that it was an incredibly poor and ill-advised decision from the powers that be. However, I do think we have to be a little careful when taking arguments from The Athletic as gospel. The informant may not have the full picture of what happened unless they are in a role that has a club-wide reach, or is part of, the senior leadership team. There is always the chance for bias, discord and embellishment.
So, based on the facts we have, yes — it's a poor decision, and yes, it has upset fans. But I don't take all of the information published as gospel. There is normally always 2 sides to a story. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:49]
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:44 - Mar 29 with 609 views | Plums |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:40 - Mar 29 by Westcountryblue |
To imply that "one has one's head in the sand" feels a little insulting to me and actually makes me hesitant to engage in open, respectful debate, where contrasting views can be challenged, but not in a way that implies one argument is superior to the other.
Since you asked, I'm not disputing much of the evidence. Farage was allowed into the club, I'm assuming he was allowed to film and, yes, I do agree that it was an incredibly poor and ill-advised decision from the powers that be. However, I do think we have to be a little careful when taking arguments from The Athletic as gospel. The informant may not have the full picture of what happened unless they are in a role that has a club-wide reach, or is part of, the senior leadership team. There is always the chance for bias, discord and embellishment.
So, based on the facts we have, yes — it's a poor decision, and yes, it has upset fans. But I don't take all of the information published as gospel. There is normally always 2 sides to a story. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:49]
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If they were untrue, why was there no attempt whatsoever to refute them when the opportunity arose?
If I'd been publicly accused of doing something I hadn't, I think I'd be pretty clear in my position when speaking up. Particularly if it was threatening my career.
There can only be one logical conclusion. |  |
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| This Farage debacle. on 14:50 - Mar 29 with 587 views | TheMoralMajority |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:40 - Mar 29 by Westcountryblue |
To imply that "one has one's head in the sand" feels a little insulting to me and actually makes me hesitant to engage in open, respectful debate, where contrasting views can be challenged, but not in a way that implies one argument is superior to the other.
Since you asked, I'm not disputing much of the evidence. Farage was allowed into the club, I'm assuming he was allowed to film and, yes, I do agree that it was an incredibly poor and ill-advised decision from the powers that be. However, I do think we have to be a little careful when taking arguments from The Athletic as gospel. The informant may not have the full picture of what happened unless they are in a role that has a club-wide reach, or is part of, the senior leadership team. There is always the chance for bias, discord and embellishment.
So, based on the facts we have, yes — it's a poor decision, and yes, it has upset fans. But I don't take all of the information published as gospel. There is normally always 2 sides to a story. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:49]
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" I do think we have to be a little careful when taking arguments from The Athletic as gospel. The informant may not have the full picture of what happened unless they are in a role that has a club-wide reach, or is part of, the senior leadership team. There is always the chance for bias and discord. "
I do not disagree with this at all (well, at least, mostly). There is always bias and nuance. However, I would counter the The Athletic is owned by the New York Times. They just do not publish unless they can back up their claims multiple times. If they did, they would long since be extinct.
Even if that were not the case, and what they have published is mostly nonsense, it would be extremely easy for the club to counter and sue the living hell out of them.
The fact of the matter is that they have denied, denied, denied, then they have apologised (for what, still no one knows) and given no specifics.
It is very important, in cases like these, to get ahead of the narrative. If the narrative that is being pushed by the Athletic were not to be true, then we would have heard about it because it is not in the interests of the club, at all, for them not to.
Given everything that has gone on, it can only be assumed that the allegations stated by The Athletic are largely true until such time that the club provide evidence that it is not. Most likely, in my view, that evidence does not exist. | |
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| This Farage debacle. on 15:00 - Mar 29 with 528 views | nrb1985 |
As a person who struggles to write in paragraphs I think most of us could have already guessed what side of the argument you'd come down on. | | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:23 - Mar 29 with 441 views | LandOfMickyStockwell |
It's Sunday afternoon and I'm amazed there's still threads on Farage. This is now dividing ourselves, for what gain? Where are folk going to take their feelings? Can they even control their feelings?
To think politics, and latterly, terrible communication from the club means more than love of your club astounds me. Once chosen, none of us can change our club. That's why a kick can hurt, but it's just one out of 20 years of hurt that has recently turned around. We have a team to support and a season to gain success.
We can't change what's happened, but we can stop further damage to the club. Keep your politics out of football by taking all the thoughts and emotion from this week into the polling booth and have your say then.
@OldFart71 is right. |  | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:33 - Mar 29 with 394 views | Meadowlark |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:23 - Mar 29 by LandOfMickyStockwell |
It's Sunday afternoon and I'm amazed there's still threads on Farage. This is now dividing ourselves, for what gain? Where are folk going to take their feelings? Can they even control their feelings?
To think politics, and latterly, terrible communication from the club means more than love of your club astounds me. Once chosen, none of us can change our club. That's why a kick can hurt, but it's just one out of 20 years of hurt that has recently turned around. We have a team to support and a season to gain success.
We can't change what's happened, but we can stop further damage to the club. Keep your politics out of football by taking all the thoughts and emotion from this week into the polling booth and have your say then.
@OldFart71 is right. |
We are asked to call out racist, homophobic and discriminatory language if we witness it on the terraces. Are you saying we should not call it out if we witness it in the "Chairman's suite?" |  | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:35 - Mar 29 with 389 views | TheMoralMajority |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:23 - Mar 29 by LandOfMickyStockwell |
It's Sunday afternoon and I'm amazed there's still threads on Farage. This is now dividing ourselves, for what gain? Where are folk going to take their feelings? Can they even control their feelings?
To think politics, and latterly, terrible communication from the club means more than love of your club astounds me. Once chosen, none of us can change our club. That's why a kick can hurt, but it's just one out of 20 years of hurt that has recently turned around. We have a team to support and a season to gain success.
We can't change what's happened, but we can stop further damage to the club. Keep your politics out of football by taking all the thoughts and emotion from this week into the polling booth and have your say then.
@OldFart71 is right. |
I really appreciate someone coming along on the other side of the debate who is prepared to actually argue their point rather than boil it down to political point scoring, so thank you for that. It is, genuinely, appreciated.
I am going to offer you the counter, if you do not mind, and I will attempt to keep it brief as I have now been over this many times (but you don't get my stock c+p I give to others, so there is that!)
The issue isn't the specific politics, per se, it is that Ashton allowed our club to be used as a mouth piece for *any* political party. There is no way that this would not be divisive. This, in and of itself, whilst not terminal to his career was an appalling move, but could have been rescued with some contrite and honest messaging, explaining what and why it happened and why nothing like this could ever be allowed to happen again.
However, since then, the club have lied to the press and fans (initial denials), lied and gaslit the fans (we did not invite Farage, he met no senior leadership), put out a press statement saying that they remained apolitical and entertain all shapes of politicians (despite never having platformed any other political party in their past 143 years).
When, finally, the lies could go on no longer, because an international newspaper has receipts, they released an apology that admitted no culpability, no accountability, no specifics and made no mention to what they were actually apologising for.
At this point the trust is well and truly broken. They (and by they I mean the senior management, specifically Mark Ashton) have played the local media and the fans for absolute mugs and there is no way back (imho). There is still no contrition or explanation.
This has all been so unnecessary and has undermined 4 years of exceptional progress, and for what? I really am not sure.
However, the team and KM are entirely blameless and 100% deserve our backing. The issue is purely with the leadership and it now must be replaced.
So in short... this is not a political issue. This is an ITFC and trust issue. [Post edited 29 Mar 15:37]
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| This Farage debacle. on 15:36 - Mar 29 with 384 views | Kropotkin123 |
Whether or not people believe it or not is of consequence, hence why you have started a thread trying to mitigate those consequences.
Thought that would be self-evident. |  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| This Farage debacle. on 15:37 - Mar 29 with 377 views | LandOfMickyStockwell |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:33 - Mar 29 by Meadowlark |
We are asked to call out racist, homophobic and discriminatory language if we witness it on the terraces. Are you saying we should not call it out if we witness it in the "Chairman's suite?" |
Have you thought about calling the police? They deal with this sort of thing.
TWTD and X have large profiles, but typing on them is hardly the place to bring justice for those you have witnessed being abused. | | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:42 - Mar 29 with 347 views | Illinoisblue |
| This Farage debacle. on 14:40 - Mar 29 by Westcountryblue |
To imply that "one has one's head in the sand" feels a little insulting to me and actually makes me hesitant to engage in open, respectful debate, where contrasting views can be challenged, but not in a way that implies one argument is superior to the other.
Since you asked, I'm not disputing much of the evidence. Farage was allowed into the club, I'm assuming he was allowed to film and, yes, I do agree that it was an incredibly poor and ill-advised decision from the powers that be. However, I do think we have to be a little careful when taking arguments from The Athletic as gospel. The informant may not have the full picture of what happened unless they are in a role that has a club-wide reach, or is part of, the senior leadership team. There is always the chance for bias, discord and embellishment.
So, based on the facts we have, yes — it's a poor decision, and yes, it has upset fans. But I don't take all of the information published as gospel. There is normally always 2 sides to a story. [Post edited 29 Mar 14:49]
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"there's always two sides to the story" - yes. And until cowardly Ashton gives his side we'll have to assume what was reported was correct. |  |
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| This Farage debacle. on 15:42 - Mar 29 with 337 views | Meadowlark |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:37 - Mar 29 by LandOfMickyStockwell |
Have you thought about calling the police? They deal with this sort of thing.
TWTD and X have large profiles, but typing on them is hardly the place to bring justice for those you have witnessed being abused. |
"Have you thought about calling the police? They deal with this sort of thing."
Evidentally, they do not. | | | |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:57 - Mar 29 with 271 views | jaykay |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:23 - Mar 29 by LandOfMickyStockwell |
It's Sunday afternoon and I'm amazed there's still threads on Farage. This is now dividing ourselves, for what gain? Where are folk going to take their feelings? Can they even control their feelings?
To think politics, and latterly, terrible communication from the club means more than love of your club astounds me. Once chosen, none of us can change our club. That's why a kick can hurt, but it's just one out of 20 years of hurt that has recently turned around. We have a team to support and a season to gain success.
We can't change what's happened, but we can stop further damage to the club. Keep your politics out of football by taking all the thoughts and emotion from this week into the polling booth and have your say then.
@OldFart71 is right. |
lol you still amazed there's still threads on farage.
this thread was started by one of those like you ,who seem upset with all the threads about farage |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| This Farage debacle. on 16:13 - Mar 29 with 242 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| This Farage debacle. on 15:23 - Mar 29 by LandOfMickyStockwell |
It's Sunday afternoon and I'm amazed there's still threads on Farage. This is now dividing ourselves, for what gain? Where are folk going to take their feelings? Can they even control their feelings?
To think politics, and latterly, terrible communication from the club means more than love of your club astounds me. Once chosen, none of us can change our club. That's why a kick can hurt, but it's just one out of 20 years of hurt that has recently turned around. We have a team to support and a season to gain success.
We can't change what's happened, but we can stop further damage to the club. Keep your politics out of football by taking all the thoughts and emotion from this week into the polling booth and have your say then.
@OldFart71 is right. |
The way to stop the constant arguments and threads is simple. Ashton has to go. | |
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| This Farage debacle. on 16:19 - Mar 29 with 219 views | J2BLUE |
Are those that are still raising this issue over Nigel Farage visit in danger of serious repercussions regarding the clubs ability to see the remaining games through and a return to the Premier League?
Yes. Some people are suggesting protesting during the match against Birmingham which seems an incredible act of self harm considering people could remain in their seats and protest after the match.
The manager and players did not ask for this. Our captain is on record about feeling the pressure.
It is an important issue but I hope people can unite behind the team for 90 minutes and protest around the match. |  |
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