| This Saints spying thing 11:51 - May 12 with 5061 views | bluefunk |
Looks like it’s a real headache for the EFL and the disciplinary commitee, Southampton have asked for more time, which is exactly what the authorities don’t have.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
It won’t be the first time they’ve done this, maybe explains their successful rise up the table. Middlesbrough apparently want sporting sanctions rather than a fine, (but then they would wouldn’t they). |  | | |  |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:31 - May 12 with 1005 views | WeWereZombies |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:01 - May 12 by nrb1985 |
Isn’t this the crack the Leicester case kept slipping through until this year?
I.e. crimes committed in the EFL don’t incur punishments in the PL?
As others have said they should be booted from the play offs. Boro should then play a one leg SF against 7th place in my view. |
A one legged semi-final against Wrexham should only be played if the Middlesborough squad have been taken on a night out in Rhyl by a hen party from Telford the day before the game... [Post edited 12 May 17:18]
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:34 - May 12 with 982 views | hype313 |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:31 - May 12 by StokieBlue |
I can't be a lone wolf intern regardless of what Saints claim.
He was apparently there with high tech equipment (cameras, directional microphone) and was sending the data back to someone who was watching it.
SB |
He should be sacked then, not for spying, but being shockingly bad at analysis given how that first half went. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:36 - May 12 with 972 views | Radlett_blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:58 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
The lone wolf, 'he was an intern', etc... stuff is what I find least believable.
Let's pretend for a second it was some lowly staff member who didn't get any orders. How will he be able to share any useful information? If he tells Tonda to make a counter for a certain set play or pattern or line-up, the question is going to be, "why would we need to prepare for that?", and it's not like you can just say "it's a hunch" and they'll change their plans unless you can guarantee it's good info. |
It was Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, behind the wooden fence. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:39 - May 12 with 943 views | Ryorry |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:24 - May 12 by _CliveBaker_ |
They don't have time for a fair trial before tonight, so that doesn't sound very reasonable to Southampton to assume them guilty.
If Saints progress and they're found guilty this week I think the result should be overturned. |
Very fair points, as was a previous post (can’t remember by whom) that any old hack could hide and/or use sophisticated technology to spy & sell info to highest bidder.
Maybe clubs will just have to move to training grounds which can be screened and secured. Boro must have been particularly vulnerable, being overlooked by a hotel with its rooms openly available to members of the general public. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:55 - May 12 with 882 views | longtimefan |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:31 - May 12 by StokieBlue |
I can't be a lone wolf intern regardless of what Saints claim.
He was apparently there with high tech equipment (cameras, directional microphone) and was sending the data back to someone who was watching it.
SB |
"I can't be a lone wolf intern regardless of what Saints claim."
Second job Stokie?  |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 14:08 - May 12 with 854 views | GeoffSentence |
It's quite fun to watch this a supporter of a club with no skin in the game whatsoever.
I have had a look at southampton and boro forums to see how their fans are viewing it. Naturally many 'Boro fans are after heavy penalties for Southampton including expulsion from the playoffs or awarding the first leg as a win to 'Boro.
Southampton fans, meanwhile, are suffering quite a bit of angst about this. Their reputation has taken a hit but a lot of them are in a stateof denial insisting that thereis no real evidence that it was anything to do with them, or if there was that it was trivial and no real damage was done or if there was that we don't really know the context.
For boro it's quite straightforward, they've been hard done by , for Saints it's much more difficult this is hurting them a bit.
Anyway, it's quite fun to follow. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 14:37 - May 12 with 769 views | alial |
Well on the plus side, no one is talking about Ipswich and Farage anymore.
Will jut be a footnote for the season... alongside Penalty Town FC.
I would be very disappointed if we had done this and having it loom over us during the play offs - reputational damage and just a general feeling of distraction & unease over what the outcome is going to be - can hardly enjoy it!
EFL must be trying to find a religion and praying for a Boro win. Anything other than that and this could rival City and the 115 charges in how long it would be dragged through the courts.
Also agree with other posters that there is no way an intern has decided to do this all alone... no intern has enough "sway" to dictate how the team should be playing on hunch with no evidence.
The fine would really need to be significant that it is material. It can't be a fine we see in the financial world that is just "the cost of doing business".
I really wouldn't want to be the EFL at this point in time. This is the result of a short sighted creation of a wishy washy rule with no clear consequences. [Post edited 12 May 14:40]
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| This Saints spying thing on 14:39 - May 12 with 760 views | GeoffSentence |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:31 - May 12 by WeWereZombies |
A one legged semi-final against Wrexham should only be played if the Middlesborough squad have been taken on a night out in Rhyl by a hen party from Telford the day before the game... [Post edited 12 May 17:18]
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Apologies, I accidentally clicked the abuse reported. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 14:40 - May 12 with 749 views | giant_stow |
| This Saints spying thing on 14:08 - May 12 by GeoffSentence |
It's quite fun to watch this a supporter of a club with no skin in the game whatsoever.
I have had a look at southampton and boro forums to see how their fans are viewing it. Naturally many 'Boro fans are after heavy penalties for Southampton including expulsion from the playoffs or awarding the first leg as a win to 'Boro.
Southampton fans, meanwhile, are suffering quite a bit of angst about this. Their reputation has taken a hit but a lot of them are in a stateof denial insisting that thereis no real evidence that it was anything to do with them, or if there was that it was trivial and no real damage was done or if there was that we don't really know the context.
For boro it's quite straightforward, they've been hard done by , for Saints it's much more difficult this is hurting them a bit.
Anyway, it's quite fun to follow. |
How big an advantage could a team gain by spying? I mean even if one team knew the other's game plan in detail, their players would still have to play well and win their duels etc... |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 14:48 - May 12 with 714 views | Radlett_blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 14:08 - May 12 by GeoffSentence |
It's quite fun to watch this a supporter of a club with no skin in the game whatsoever.
I have had a look at southampton and boro forums to see how their fans are viewing it. Naturally many 'Boro fans are after heavy penalties for Southampton including expulsion from the playoffs or awarding the first leg as a win to 'Boro.
Southampton fans, meanwhile, are suffering quite a bit of angst about this. Their reputation has taken a hit but a lot of them are in a stateof denial insisting that thereis no real evidence that it was anything to do with them, or if there was that it was trivial and no real damage was done or if there was that we don't really know the context.
For boro it's quite straightforward, they've been hard done by , for Saints it's much more difficult this is hurting them a bit.
Anyway, it's quite fun to follow. |
Largely agree with your post, but yet another signpost that anything goes in professional sport if (1) it might help your team win and (2) you get away with it.
Yes, with over £100m on the table for getting into the PL I accept (reluctantly) that it's not just "sport". | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 14:52 - May 12 with 692 views | GeoffSentence |
| This Saints spying thing on 14:48 - May 12 by Radlett_blue |
Largely agree with your post, but yet another signpost that anything goes in professional sport if (1) it might help your team win and (2) you get away with it.
Yes, with over £100m on the table for getting into the PL I accept (reluctantly) that it's not just "sport". |
Compared to some of the stuff that has gone on in the past in top level football (bungs, bribing refs, betting scandals and more) this seems relatively trivial. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 15:00 - May 12 with 658 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
Agree entirely that there has to be a sporting sanction to redress the disadvantage to Boro, as well as punishment for Southampton.
The show has to go on, so if I ran the EFL I'd impose a 2 or 3 goal advantage to Boro for tonight's game. That would deflect any future law suits from Boro, and gives time for the EFL to hold a hearing and decide on what punishment to mete out. Depending on the involvement, that could include points deductions next season, fines, banishment of club officials and coaches/manager. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 15:12 - May 12 with 611 views | dirtyboy |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:00 - May 12 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Agree entirely that there has to be a sporting sanction to redress the disadvantage to Boro, as well as punishment for Southampton.
The show has to go on, so if I ran the EFL I'd impose a 2 or 3 goal advantage to Boro for tonight's game. That would deflect any future law suits from Boro, and gives time for the EFL to hold a hearing and decide on what punishment to mete out. Depending on the involvement, that could include points deductions next season, fines, banishment of club officials and coaches/manager. |
How on earth do you calculate what sporting advantage is gained though?
This is another of those things that EFL (and all footballing bodies) need to have written policies for.
Currently, it reads like
You must not break this rule
Breaking this rule can lead to punishment.
Anyone who runs anything, knows you need written policies for all eventualities and given this happened in the past and they then made a specific rule against it, they should have known damn well what the punishment would be and how quickly it would be implemented.
I think both sets of fans are overreacting, Boro pushing it as being unholy, Saints pushing it as meaningless.
As usual, the actual result is somewhere between.
It'll be a financial penalty. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:13 - May 12 with 606 views | Churchman |
I would say ‘ok Southampton, you have more time’. You have to 11am Friday. If you are beaten tonight, you can have the full 14 days, but for the sake of the competition, if you win, it’s Friday.
It’s simple, especially as unlike the Leeds situation there’s a rule in place. Who was found, what was he doing. Who ordered it and has it happened before. I presume the bino man is known so it’s a simple question and answer job that should take no more than a few hours to get to the truth. I can only assume Southampton are stalling so that it puts the EFL in an impossible position. So:
Response by Friday if they win tonight, 14 days if they don’t. If Middlesbrough lose, keep them on standby until the weekend. That gives them a week to prepare for Wembley. Not ideal, but we are where we are.
If they are guilty of anything a fine is nothing. If you fine them £2m, that still leaves £198m rolling in. Not a bad rate of return for employing a bloke and a Brownie. Personally, for cheating on that scale it would mean automatic relegation. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:21 - May 12 with 570 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:00 - May 12 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Agree entirely that there has to be a sporting sanction to redress the disadvantage to Boro, as well as punishment for Southampton.
The show has to go on, so if I ran the EFL I'd impose a 2 or 3 goal advantage to Boro for tonight's game. That would deflect any future law suits from Boro, and gives time for the EFL to hold a hearing and decide on what punishment to mete out. Depending on the involvement, that could include points deductions next season, fines, banishment of club officials and coaches/manager. |
It's just not possible. It's not possible to quantify what the advantage is for saints vs the goals for Boro.
Add that to the fact that you'd be impacting the gambling integrity and broadcast contracts that are already key revenue streams for the EFL.
You'd also have a huge lawsuit from Saints given the first point and the lack of any previous precedent.
There are no sporting punishments that are actually feasible. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:24 - May 12 with 547 views | WeWereZombies |
| This Saints spying thing on 14:39 - May 12 by GeoffSentence |
Apologies, I accidentally clicked the abuse reported. |
Thanks for clearing that up, I thought we had a Wrexham supporter reading the forum for a moment. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 15:28 - May 12 with 527 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:31 - May 12 by WeWereZombies |
A one legged semi-final against Wrexham should only be played if the Middlesborough squad have been taken on a night out in Rhyl by a hen party from Telford the day before the game... [Post edited 12 May 17:18]
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Abuse reported and quite right too. A one legged semi final would be ridiculous. They should be forced to do it 3-legged, each tied to one on the Hen’s friends. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 15:31 - May 12 with 514 views | WeWereZombies |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:28 - May 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Abuse reported and quite right too. A one legged semi final would be ridiculous. They should be forced to do it 3-legged, each tied to one on the Hen’s friends. |
Mmmm, bondage, now that's abuse that deserves being reported... | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 15:33 - May 12 with 507 views | Freddies_Ears |
| This Saints spying thing on 14:40 - May 12 by giant_stow |
How big an advantage could a team gain by spying? I mean even if one team knew the other's game plan in detail, their players would still have to play well and win their duels etc... |
Spying... would reveal line-up for a start. Also, likely set-up / formation. Also, any rehearsed set pieces.
All of which adds up to an unfair advantage. Football is about fine margins, mostly, so tilting the odds is huge.
A financial sanction is meaningless, given the £200m or that the Prem is worth. And what about the team that lost out on promotion just because Southampton cheated? Boro? Wrexham? What a mess.
At this time, there is probably only time to investigate the POSF allegation. If proven, Southampton should be kept down and Boro put through to the POF whatever happens tonight. Then, any further incidents can be examined over the next month; if proven, then relegate them to League 1, and reinstate Oxford. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:37 - May 12 with 494 views | Kievthegreat |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:21 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
It's just not possible. It's not possible to quantify what the advantage is for saints vs the goals for Boro.
Add that to the fact that you'd be impacting the gambling integrity and broadcast contracts that are already key revenue streams for the EFL.
You'd also have a huge lawsuit from Saints given the first point and the lack of any previous precedent.
There are no sporting punishments that are actually feasible. |
I don't think there's any precedence for giving goals in games as a form of punishment. I don't think they'll go that route.
I think the nuclear, but still plausible option is expel them from the play-offs. It is a severe punishment, but any other option I can think of is woefully insufficient. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:50 - May 12 with 462 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:37 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
I don't think there's any precedence for giving goals in games as a form of punishment. I don't think they'll go that route.
I think the nuclear, but still plausible option is expel them from the play-offs. It is a severe punishment, but any other option I can think of is woefully insufficient. |
I honestly do not think that is remotely plausible.
Think of the lawsuit if Saints won them and then they just gave it to Hull.
The English Football League itself generates roughly £190m–£200m per year in central revenue - https://www.efl.com/official-e
That roughly equates to what Saints would be losing through that ruling which has no precedent at all. They'd be suing the EFL for an entire year of lost earnings. [Post edited 12 May 15:51]
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| This Saints spying thing on 16:28 - May 12 with 384 views | dirtyboy |
The EFL will not be stopping Southampton from continuing to play tonight and if successful, playing Hull.
It's got heavy fine written all over it.
They'll probably sack the poor bastard who was in the bushes and sacrifice him, delete all emails asking him to go so there's no proof management sent him.
All stuff that the EFL will be pretty much powerless to look at quick enough given the games coming up.
Slap on the wrist, don't do again, perhaps a letter to Premier League that they should have a 3 point deduction if they go up if they really want to make an example of cheating (which they probably should).
Won't make one bit of difference to poor 'Boro. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 16:43 - May 12 with 355 views | CopfordBlue |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:12 - May 12 by dirtyboy |
How on earth do you calculate what sporting advantage is gained though?
This is another of those things that EFL (and all footballing bodies) need to have written policies for.
Currently, it reads like
You must not break this rule
Breaking this rule can lead to punishment.
Anyone who runs anything, knows you need written policies for all eventualities and given this happened in the past and they then made a specific rule against it, they should have known damn well what the punishment would be and how quickly it would be implemented.
I think both sets of fans are overreacting, Boro pushing it as being unholy, Saints pushing it as meaningless.
As usual, the actual result is somewhere between.
It'll be a financial penalty. |
Completely agree. Vague rules and no clearly defined penalties mean this is a self-inflicted problem for the EFL. Pointless rule in my view anyway. Southampton’s mistake is being caught. Clubs always look to gain an advantage in whatever way they can. This may be a blatant example but I’d be shocked if any championship club had gone the season without some inside or dubiously obtained info to try and give them an edge. We had a year or so where our starting 11 was widely leaked every game. It’s certain that would have found its way to the opposition before the game most weeks. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 16:51 - May 12 with 347 views | SitfcB |
| This Saints spying thing on 16:28 - May 12 by dirtyboy |
The EFL will not be stopping Southampton from continuing to play tonight and if successful, playing Hull.
It's got heavy fine written all over it.
They'll probably sack the poor bastard who was in the bushes and sacrifice him, delete all emails asking him to go so there's no proof management sent him.
All stuff that the EFL will be pretty much powerless to look at quick enough given the games coming up.
Slap on the wrist, don't do again, perhaps a letter to Premier League that they should have a 3 point deduction if they go up if they really want to make an example of cheating (which they probably should).
Won't make one bit of difference to poor 'Boro. |
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| This Saints spying thing on 16:57 - May 12 with 330 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| This Saints spying thing on 16:51 - May 12 by SitfcB |
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This could get so messy.
If they're thrown out I wonder if Saints players will have any clause for legal action against their own club for lost earnings etc. |  | | |
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