| MP resigning so Burnham can stand 17:21 - May 14 with 12168 views | NthQldITFC |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/liv
Labour MP says he's resigning so Andy Burnham can stand
Labour MP Josh Simons has just issued a statement: "Today, I am putting the people I represent and the country I love first and will be resigning as MP for Makerfield.
I am standing aside so that Andy Burnham can return to his home." |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:49 - May 15 with 785 views | Plums |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:37 - May 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"I've never... thought they could speak for me better than I can."
Good luck taking on a major corporation on your own!
You also seem to have had one bad experience of a union and have tarred them all with the same brush. |
You've managed to make a number of assumptions there.
My comment was about leaders - not 'taking on corporations'.
I cited an example - not the only example. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:50 - May 15 with 780 views | Benters |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 06:43 - May 15 by gtsb1966 |
When I got back to Bristol I looked at my delivery sheet and I was 220kg overweight. In hindsight I shouldn't have even taken the van out. I quit the next day
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Don’t blame you I worked for someone like that but in the building trade,he would send me to do something he wouldn’t do himself.
I got my own back one day in a Jewsons yard he’d sent me out at 1600hrs to pick a massive load of timber and other building materials up,and on a Friday at that time nobody much wanted to help you in a Jewsons yard.
The van was on its last legs he knew that we all knew it and he thought it was funny,so I got the load on and when I was in the carpark I floored it and blew the engine up.
I jacked in a week later and went to work on sire house bashing,and stayed with the chap some ten years. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:58 - May 15 with 741 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:49 - May 15 by Plums |
You've managed to make a number of assumptions there.
My comment was about leaders - not 'taking on corporations'.
I cited an example - not the only example. |
Have I?
"I've never looked or listened to a modern union leader and thought they could speak for me better than I can."
"They also seem to pick the wrong fights more often than not"
"Great in principle, poor in practice"
Very much reads like you're talking about them generally.
And the whole point of unions (and union leaders) is to take on corporations and other large bodies, in defence and support of the individual. |  |
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| I wouldn't risk more than.... on 07:59 - May 15 with 738 views | DJR |
| I wouldn't risk more than.... on 06:40 - May 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I’ll be stunned if they do, a key part of their recent surge is down to attracting disillusioned Labour voters and they need to be able to continue to do so if they want to kick on further
Given Burnham is probably the one realistic leader that could get Labour back on track and bring those voters back, it would be suicidal for the Greens to completely open the door and stand down |
But the Greens are never going to win this seat, and realistically there is a limit on the number of seats they could win at a General Election- maybe 20 at best.
It is also interesting to note that Caroline Lucas is a co-chair of Compass because she has long supported co-operation between what are called progressive parties.
Maybe I am wrong and they will put up a candidate but I would doubt that they will campaign actively. |  | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:09 - May 15 with 704 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 06:22 - May 15 by gtsb1966 |
Ive worked for 4 companies in my 44 years of working. One company recognised the union and we had good pay and working conditions and other benefits. They were a brilliant company and I was there 31 years. On the other hand I've also seen what a company can be like who dont recognise a union. The other three all dont and two of those would push their legal requirements to the limit including health and safety. For instance one company would only use a 3.5ton van so they didn't have to have drivers on a tachometer even though they really needed at least a 7.5ton vehicle. One day i was definitely carrying too much and my route for that day was Sudbury-Oxford-Poole-Penzance and then back to Bristol for an overnight stop before heading back to Sudbury in the morning. Suffice to say I only did that once. All that for minimum wage too!!. |
A report by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research found the following
-Trade unions maintain and improve workers’
terms and conditions through bargaining with
employers.
-Workers organized in trade unions benefit from
higher wages—the so-called union wage premium.
-Union bargaining also results in a fringe benefits
premium for covered workers.
-Trade unions reduce wage inequality.
And of course, employees working in an unionised setting get those benefits even if they don't join the union. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:14 - May 15 with 688 views | Guthrum |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 17:57 - May 14 by oldbeardy |
I don't like it that Burnham is only doing this to be PM - he isn't interested in anything other than that. So he uses Makerfield to become an MP (assuming he's allowed, and wins) then what if he doesn't win the PM job - he'll be off again at the earliest opportunity I imagine. Doesn't fill me with confidence that he's the right person whatever his other qualities. |
Unlikely. Even if Burnham fails to become leader, he will get a senior ministerial position. They couldn't afford to waste someone with his talents and support. Plus he'd be more threat to the leadership on the back benches than in Cabinet.
From a constituency point of view, what better guarantee is there of getting the ear of the government than having its leader as your MP? |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:19 - May 15 with 656 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:09 - May 15 by DJR |
A report by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research found the following
-Trade unions maintain and improve workers’
terms and conditions through bargaining with
employers.
-Workers organized in trade unions benefit from
higher wages—the so-called union wage premium.
-Union bargaining also results in a fringe benefits
premium for covered workers.
-Trade unions reduce wage inequality.
And of course, employees working in an unionised setting get those benefits even if they don't join the union. |
Even when unions seemingly do very little you still have peace of mind knowing they're there. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:22 - May 15 with 654 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:19 - May 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Even when unions seemingly do very little you still have peace of mind knowing they're there. |
As Olly Robbins knows full well! | | | |
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| I wouldn't risk more than.... on 08:24 - May 15 with 636 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I wouldn't risk more than.... on 19:40 - May 14 by bluelagos |
For me they might opt not to campaign much, but they'll put up a candidate.
Same for the Lib Dems. |
If Burnham is the tonic Labour needs to win the next election, why on earth would the liberals and greens help get somebody in who could cost them seats in three years time? It’s a very naive view. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:24 - May 15 with 642 views | Guthrum |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 18:59 - May 14 by BlueBadger |
Streeting isn't going to be PM.
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That's bruising. Even with all the undecided/don't knows (not likely), Streeting still wouldn't win. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:25 - May 15 with 639 views | StokieBlue |
Newsnight made an estimated result for this byelection based on the results from the surrounding local elections (weighted by geography etc) - far from perfect but had Reform winning with 50% of the vote and nearly twice as much as Labour.
A few people then went on to make the point that Burnham probably wants to try and win this seat, if he can overturn a Reform lead of that significance he is a certainty for PM as he will run on a ticket highlighting how he beat Reform and how Labour need to make those gains over the whole country and that he's shown it can be done.
It's risky, but if he wins he'll be PM.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:25 - May 15 with 633 views | NewcyBlue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:09 - May 15 by DJR |
A report by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research found the following
-Trade unions maintain and improve workers’
terms and conditions through bargaining with
employers.
-Workers organized in trade unions benefit from
higher wages—the so-called union wage premium.
-Union bargaining also results in a fringe benefits
premium for covered workers.
-Trade unions reduce wage inequality.
And of course, employees working in an unionised setting get those benefits even if they don't join the union. |
Nautilus agreed to the fire and rehire of South African officers in my company.
They also negotiated worse contracts for U.K. officers.
I’m only a member of Nautiulus because of the licence protection and limited legal representation. |  |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:28 - May 15 with 618 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 17:48 - May 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Reform will have to take more care in selecting a candidate than they did Gorton and Denton. |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:33 - May 15 with 588 views | GlasgowBlue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:25 - May 15 by StokieBlue |
Newsnight made an estimated result for this byelection based on the results from the surrounding local elections (weighted by geography etc) - far from perfect but had Reform winning with 50% of the vote and nearly twice as much as Labour.
A few people then went on to make the point that Burnham probably wants to try and win this seat, if he can overturn a Reform lead of that significance he is a certainty for PM as he will run on a ticket highlighting how he beat Reform and how Labour need to make those gains over the whole country and that he's shown it can be done.
It's risky, but if he wins he'll be PM.
SB |
It’s flawed logic though. The Burnham brand may be big enough in Greater Manchester see off Reform, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he can replicate it across the country. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:33 - May 15 with 589 views | Guthrum |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 19:15 - May 14 by gtsb1966 |
Im a union member. Do I get a vote? |
One man one vote. Starmer is the man and he gets the vote. | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:36 - May 15 with 574 views | StokieBlue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:33 - May 15 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s flawed logic though. The Burnham brand may be big enough in Greater Manchester see off Reform, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he can replicate it across the country. |
That is correct, however it's also not how I believe things will be looked at.
When faced with someone who has managed to overturn a large Reform lead in a recent byelection versus someone who a lot of the party aren't happy with, a lot of the public don't like and who has just overseen an absolute demolition by Reform at the polls how do you think it's going to play out?
Burnham will point all that out, he will come with "lefter" policies and in my view would win any leadership contest pretty comfortably in that scenario.
That is all assuming he can beat Reform first of course which is far from guaranteed.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:44 - May 15 with 547 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:36 - May 15 by StokieBlue |
That is correct, however it's also not how I believe things will be looked at.
When faced with someone who has managed to overturn a large Reform lead in a recent byelection versus someone who a lot of the party aren't happy with, a lot of the public don't like and who has just overseen an absolute demolition by Reform at the polls how do you think it's going to play out?
Burnham will point all that out, he will come with "lefter" policies and in my view would win any leadership contest pretty comfortably in that scenario.
That is all assuming he can beat Reform first of course which is far from guaranteed.
SB |
Further to that: Labour members know that Starmer has lost the North, just as Corbyn did before him.
Burnham has to demonstrate that he can beat Reform in the North, in historically Labour seats, not in Essex in seats which have been Tory for most of the last 50 years. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:47 - May 15 with 523 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:25 - May 15 by StokieBlue |
Newsnight made an estimated result for this byelection based on the results from the surrounding local elections (weighted by geography etc) - far from perfect but had Reform winning with 50% of the vote and nearly twice as much as Labour.
A few people then went on to make the point that Burnham probably wants to try and win this seat, if he can overturn a Reform lead of that significance he is a certainty for PM as he will run on a ticket highlighting how he beat Reform and how Labour need to make those gains over the whole country and that he's shown it can be done.
It's risky, but if he wins he'll be PM.
SB |
This is exactly what i was thinking. Bold move! | |
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:48 - May 15 with 529 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:25 - May 15 by NewcyBlue |
Nautilus agreed to the fire and rehire of South African officers in my company.
They also negotiated worse contracts for U.K. officers.
I’m only a member of Nautiulus because of the licence protection and limited legal representation. |
They appear to be an international union and are maybe the exception which proves the rule.
I don't suppose the RMT (which absorbed the National Union of Seamen) is an option for you but I couldn't seem them ever agreeing this. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:50 - May 15 with 516 views | Plums |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 07:46 - May 15 by DJR |
If you look at the front page of the NEU website, teacher workload is front and centre stage.
https://neu.org.uk/
Of course unions can't work miracles, and with schools having to cut the number of teaching assistants when incidents of bad behaviour and pupils with SEND are on the rise, the burden on teachers becomes ever more difficult. |
Good, I'm pleased they've finally caught on. Sadly, for my wife and literally hundreds of thousands of others it's too late - they're no longer teachers because of those very issues.
As I said, I think unions are good in principle and they clearly do good work at an individual level. My issue has always been aligning myself with their leadership and its priorities - which are far too often at odds with my own. Because of that, they've often lost the public argument before their campaigns have even started. [Post edited 15 May 8:51]
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:51 - May 15 with 505 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:38 - May 15 by ArnoldMoorhen |
There's a much simpler explanation:
Burnham becoming an MP creates a vacancy as Mayor for Manchester.
And the new Leader of the Labour Party will "guide" the NEC in selecting the candidate.
It's absolutely transparent! |
I can't see Josh Simons cutting through in Manchester, even though his roots are in Bury.
He strikes me as being a bit too cerebral. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:55 - May 15 with 483 views | DJR |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:50 - May 15 by Plums |
Good, I'm pleased they've finally caught on. Sadly, for my wife and literally hundreds of thousands of others it's too late - they're no longer teachers because of those very issues.
As I said, I think unions are good in principle and they clearly do good work at an individual level. My issue has always been aligning myself with their leadership and its priorities - which are far too often at odds with my own. Because of that, they've often lost the public argument before their campaigns have even started. [Post edited 15 May 8:51]
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My daughter also wonders whether she can carry on given the extensive workload which gives little or no time for a social life.
Indeed, I am currently reading the Human Stain by Phillip Roth which was written in 1998 and which touches on the tremendous workload of teachers in New York.
Maybe it 'twas ever thus. [Post edited 15 May 9:01]
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| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:01 - May 15 with 460 views | oldbeardy |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:14 - May 15 by Guthrum |
Unlikely. Even if Burnham fails to become leader, he will get a senior ministerial position. They couldn't afford to waste someone with his talents and support. Plus he'd be more threat to the leadership on the back benches than in Cabinet.
From a constituency point of view, what better guarantee is there of getting the ear of the government than having its leader as your MP? |
He'll go soon enough if he ends up in opposition though. He's not in it for the right reasons, he only wants the PM job. He didn't stay before and he won't stay in future if things don't work out. It shows how desperate the Labour PLP are and how little talent they have within their existing ranks. | | | |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 09:02 - May 15 with 457 views | GlasgowBlue |
| MP resigning so Burnham can stand on 08:36 - May 15 by StokieBlue |
That is correct, however it's also not how I believe things will be looked at.
When faced with someone who has managed to overturn a large Reform lead in a recent byelection versus someone who a lot of the party aren't happy with, a lot of the public don't like and who has just overseen an absolute demolition by Reform at the polls how do you think it's going to play out?
Burnham will point all that out, he will come with "lefter" policies and in my view would win any leadership contest pretty comfortably in that scenario.
That is all assuming he can beat Reform first of course which is far from guaranteed.
SB |
When the Tories changed leader mid term Burnham demanded a general election because the Tories were “making major change of political direction”. Surely he has to stick to the manifesto Labour were elected on otherwise he’d be accused of rank hypocrisy? [Post edited 15 May 9:02]
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