| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? 16:20 - Jun 12 with 2718 views | ButchersBrokenNose |
The biggest challenge at our club right now is that Mark Ashton has no adult supervision. I was desperately hoping that the owners would appoint a chairman to replace Mike O'Leary this summer, but it appears that is not going to happen. I know some will say that the owners supervise him, but talking on the phone and coming over for quarterly board meetings is not the same as working in the same building, day in and day out.
I don't care about his politics, but I think Ashton's arrogance and his ego get him into trouble. He needs someone to rein him in. Our success in the upcoming season will be dependent on who he recruits as the new manager, and what deals he can broker for new players. In effect, he is the decisive point for our survival in the Premier League. I am not confident he can do that on his own.
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:06 - Jun 12 with 630 views | itfcjoe |
He has a boss, but think it would be helpful to have a sounding board alongside him like he did o'Leary previously to reign him in and keep his ego in check as and when he needs it.
I care about the Reform visit, I thought it was a disgrace, and had it cost him his job then it would have been deserved - it hasn't he's still here, he's still in the main done a very good job in nearly all facets of his role.
I think it would be helpful to have someone on the ground with him, it would not be a bad thing |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:08 - Jun 12 with 615 views | Blue_Heath |
He has, they are called majority shareholders. |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:09 - Jun 12 with 611 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:04 - Jun 12 by Mullet |
You can’t really separate his “footballing work” from it though. The jobs he’s doing means it’s impossible. His disdain and treatment for Blue Action whilst happily using them to promote the good times is a good example of what I’m talking about.
It exposed not necessarily character flaws, but issues which show how he can’t do both roles. Likewise, the inability to oversee better recruitment and the fact we had issues on and off the pitch means you have to praise and criticise in equal measure.
Had we not gone up then I suspect the calls would be louder. The lack of integrity amongst the fanbase has probably saved him. If the owners were less ignorant of the politics and the backlash wasn’t so aggressively suppressed by people I suspect they’d have sacked him. |
It's exactly this.
Competence determines how well someone performs a role. Integrity determines whether they can be trusted with the role at all.
A highly competent person with no integrity is often more dangerous than a merely average person with integrity, because their position gives them greater power to cause harm and greater opportunity to conceal it.
For me MA has proven to have plenty of the former and little of the latter. Personally, that's an issue, for most others, less so.
As to the OP, as has been alluded elsewhere, we should have a Chairman and a CEO because that is just good corporate governance. There is no need to look into it any deeper than that. [Post edited 12 Jun 19:11]
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:10 - Jun 12 with 599 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:04 - Jun 12 by Mullet |
You can’t really separate his “footballing work” from it though. The jobs he’s doing means it’s impossible. His disdain and treatment for Blue Action whilst happily using them to promote the good times is a good example of what I’m talking about.
It exposed not necessarily character flaws, but issues which show how he can’t do both roles. Likewise, the inability to oversee better recruitment and the fact we had issues on and off the pitch means you have to praise and criticise in equal measure.
Had we not gone up then I suspect the calls would be louder. The lack of integrity amongst the fanbase has probably saved him. If the owners were less ignorant of the politics and the backlash wasn’t so aggressively suppressed by people I suspect they’d have sacked him. |
'lack of integrity amongst the fanbase'
Jesus! | | | |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:13 - Jun 12 with 585 views | Churchman |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 18:51 - Jun 12 by bartyg |
A lot of people being emotive in this thread, not many people who understand corporate governance.. |
Well you clearly do understand corporate governance so for the stupid people like me, perhaps you’d like to give a brief summary and where the owners (3 promotions in 4 years, upgraded ground, new training centre, Cat 1, community engagement club with 10x 2021) are getting it so wrong. Or right.
I’d be interested to know. |  | | |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:19 - Jun 12 with 561 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Oh shush |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:27 - Jun 12 with 542 views | bartyg |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:13 - Jun 12 by Churchman |
Well you clearly do understand corporate governance so for the stupid people like me, perhaps you’d like to give a brief summary and where the owners (3 promotions in 4 years, upgraded ground, new training centre, Cat 1, community engagement club with 10x 2021) are getting it so wrong. Or right.
I’d be interested to know. |
The UK Corporate Governance code is explicit in this fact, I have found you the relevant provision;
"The chair should be independent on appointment when assessed against the circumstances set out in Provision 10. The roles of chair and chief executive should not be exercised by the same individual. A chief executive should not become chair of the same company. If, exceptionally, this is proposed by the board, major shareholders should be consulted ahead of appointment."
Section 2 provision 9, UK Corporate Governance Code 2024
It is, of course, guidance on best practice and not the law. I'm not sure why you think listing achievements is going to somehow refute this? |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:45 - Jun 12 with 503 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Ignoring the emotive way the OP phrased this, I do find it amusing that so many people think they would run the club better than our owners. There are some seriously heavyweight corporate types involved. I find it highly unlikely that Ashton has the freedom to make every decision without checks and balances in place.
There’s almost certainly a Delegation of Authority well documented in the club. In today’s world it is also not necessary to have key members of the senior leadership team all in the same location. ‘Virtual’ face-to-face chats have been a thing for a long time. Even across the time zones, given the hours these guys work, it’s easy to find a slot that overlaps for talking, even on a daily basis.
Like many, I was very uncomfortable with the Farage episode, and I feel we deserved to know more about how it came about. That’s clearly not going to happen now. Very few people even talk about it. Now, this is speculation, but the longer it went on, the more I became convinced that for Ashton to have come through it visibly unscathed, there must have been full visibility and agreement from the senior leadership team for the visit. If true, that makes me want even more to understand what they were thinking, and what they expected to gain from the visit. However, I’ve accepted that will now never happen, and have moved on to focus on the next chapter for the club. Life’s too short to carry angst over this for too long. | | | |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:07 - Jun 12 with 438 views | dirtyboy |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:27 - Jun 12 by bartyg |
The UK Corporate Governance code is explicit in this fact, I have found you the relevant provision;
"The chair should be independent on appointment when assessed against the circumstances set out in Provision 10. The roles of chair and chief executive should not be exercised by the same individual. A chief executive should not become chair of the same company. If, exceptionally, this is proposed by the board, major shareholders should be consulted ahead of appointment."
Section 2 provision 9, UK Corporate Governance Code 2024
It is, of course, guidance on best practice and not the law. I'm not sure why you think listing achievements is going to somehow refute this? |
If you’re posting that from a an area of expertise you’re familiar with then you know as well as I do that it is aimed squarely at listed companies not those privately owned, so the ownership group are the ‘boss’ and choose what Ashton does and who he has to report to. |  | | |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:17 - Jun 12 with 417 views | Churchman |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:27 - Jun 12 by bartyg |
The UK Corporate Governance code is explicit in this fact, I have found you the relevant provision;
"The chair should be independent on appointment when assessed against the circumstances set out in Provision 10. The roles of chair and chief executive should not be exercised by the same individual. A chief executive should not become chair of the same company. If, exceptionally, this is proposed by the board, major shareholders should be consulted ahead of appointment."
Section 2 provision 9, UK Corporate Governance Code 2024
It is, of course, guidance on best practice and not the law. I'm not sure why you think listing achievements is going to somehow refute this? |
Because you and others seem to ignore the role of the owners, their achievements with this club and how they have either structured it or approved it.
They appointed Ashton. The new people who have invested have as far as I can tell not pushed to boot him out. The owners are 5000 miles away and while a U.K. governance structure might be relevant to a U.K. company it may be that the way they’ve had it at ITFC has worked - hence listing some of the progress.
Many on here are after Ashton because of Farage. Not least because it adds on to the tosh a load of Bristol City weirds had to say, repeatedly, and Ashtons more irritating Brentish habits.
I clearly have more faith in the owners than most on here because of what has been achieved. I believe they have a vague idea what they are doing, given the numbers involved and have the club structured as they wish it to be up to now. If the club grows, that has to change.
MA has been part of the success of this club. So have they and I trust their judgement for now. | | | |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:24 - Jun 12 with 414 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:27 - Jun 12 by bartyg |
The UK Corporate Governance code is explicit in this fact, I have found you the relevant provision;
"The chair should be independent on appointment when assessed against the circumstances set out in Provision 10. The roles of chair and chief executive should not be exercised by the same individual. A chief executive should not become chair of the same company. If, exceptionally, this is proposed by the board, major shareholders should be consulted ahead of appointment."
Section 2 provision 9, UK Corporate Governance Code 2024
It is, of course, guidance on best practice and not the law. I'm not sure why you think listing achievements is going to somehow refute this? |
If you are familiar with corporate structures, you’ll know that there is a name for it - CEO Duality. Although less common in the U.K., it’s very common in the US (where our owners are from).
Some of the biggest organisations in the world operate CEO Duality - Blackrock, GM and Chevron to name a few. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the structure, providing strong corporate governance processes are in place. | | | |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:43 - Jun 12 with 374 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:24 - Jun 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
If you are familiar with corporate structures, you’ll know that there is a name for it - CEO Duality. Although less common in the U.K., it’s very common in the US (where our owners are from).
Some of the biggest organisations in the world operate CEO Duality - Blackrock, GM and Chevron to name a few. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the structure, providing strong corporate governance processes are in place. |
We are in the UK though, so it was a valid point. It doesn’t matter where the owners are from, I’d rather our governance is aligned to UK best practice. But it’s not what we’ve got and the owners seem to want that, reflecting what you say and their familiarity with the dual role. It’s no biggy as long as they’re on his case regularly. We’re hugely exposed if Ashton moves on and we get an idiot in charge, which would be my main concern. |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:59 - Jun 12 with 357 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 16:21 - Jun 12 by J2BLUE |
Apart from the owners...
People need to stop looking for a stick to beat Ashton with. It's pathetic. |
If people can't see the sense in the op then you're beyond help, keep taking the kool aid!
We're talking day to day running here, or perhaps you're suggesting the owners aporoved our Farage endorsement? |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:01 - Jun 12 with 355 views | Mullet |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 19:10 - Jun 12 by burnbudgiesburn |
'lack of integrity amongst the fanbase'
Jesus! |
Jesus hated the fash too as it happens.
Anyone excusing Faragegate, the association with our club and a man who has gone in to ignite more race riots because we’ve got back into the Prem etc lacks integrity. |  |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:10 - Jun 12 with 321 views | Churchman |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 20:59 - Jun 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If people can't see the sense in the op then you're beyond help, keep taking the kool aid!
We're talking day to day running here, or perhaps you're suggesting the owners aporoved our Farage endorsement? |
The OP was a rather sad attempt to belittle the CEO. No more than that and I see no sense whatsoever in it.
And I didn’t know what kook aid was but having looked it up I see it’s a child’s drink so I guess you are mocking those that disagree with the OP. | | | |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:19 - Jun 12 with 311 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 18:28 - Jun 12 by megnuts |
The same David Sheepshanks that chaired the club through the decisions that led to administration? Makes sense.
This hate that gets sent Ashton’s way is bizarre to me. Though I totally appreciate he has characteristics that can rub people up the wrong way. He’s done a very good job for us. Farage aside and all that. |
I think Sheepshank’s achievements are dismissed too easily with that sort of view. You could easily turn that around and say the same David Sheepshanks whose decisions led to our best achievements since the great SBR era and the last time we had European football, which we’ve not come close to matching for over 25 years.
Yes, mistakes were made in the summer of 2001 in terms of recruitment. George and others behind the scenes would have been a big part of that too. And then Sheepshanks wasn’t responsible for the loss of income as a result of the TV deal going tatts up. We also had the introduction of the transfer window to deal with that hampered efforts to sell on players. Maybe he should have been aware to that risk, I’m not sure. Nothing he could do about the TV deal collapsing though.
There’s the issue over ground improvements too with some blaming relegation on a change in atmosphere, but teams have to deal with stuff like that (Covid being an extreme example). That’s a lame one for me and the ground desperately needed updating. He left the stadium in a far better position than he found it.
Where I think he failed massively, and this never gets laid at his door but was far more significant than administration or the ground improvements imo, is he sold us to a shockingly bad owner. That’s what killed us for the best part of 14/15 years. He took the plaudits for finding investment, but his choice of investor was awful. | |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:32 - Jun 12 with 278 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:10 - Jun 12 by Churchman |
The OP was a rather sad attempt to belittle the CEO. No more than that and I see no sense whatsoever in it.
And I didn’t know what kook aid was but having looked it up I see it’s a child’s drink so I guess you are mocking those that disagree with the OP. |
You should see sense in it, as it’s quite usual and the worse that can happen is you get another viewpoint in the club. It’s not essential of course and we’re not changing either, so it’s a moot point. But it’s not an outrageous idea in any shape or form. | |
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| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:40 - Jun 12 with 257 views | Churchman |
| Does Mark Ashton need a boss? on 21:32 - Jun 12 by Swansea_Blue |
You should see sense in it, as it’s quite usual and the worse that can happen is you get another viewpoint in the club. It’s not essential of course and we’re not changing either, so it’s a moot point. But it’s not an outrageous idea in any shape or form. |
The aim was to belittle Ashton. Nothing more.
As far as club structure goes, that’s been done to death. The haters are busting in on it as a way of getting at Ashton and completely dismiss the idea that the owners might have a vague idea what they are doing. Personally I think that is unfair, but hey, the FM brigade of experts on here might know the business better than Gamechanger. | | | |
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