| Initial analysis of the current heatwave 08:06 - Jun 26 with 16563 views | StokieBlue |
Scientists have said that the current heatwave stretching across Europe would have been impossible in June without climate change and is also hitting hard as the weather is more humid than normal.
"As recently as 2003, a heatwave like the current one in Europe would have been 2C cooler due to the lower level of global heating at the time. In 1976, another famous heatwave year, it would have been 3.5C cooler."
"The sweltering night-time temperatures currently harming people’s sleep are about 100 times more likely today than in 2003."
https://www.theguardian.com/en
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 10:59 - Jun 26 with 1058 views | bsw72 |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 09:50 - Jun 26 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve said this before, Adopting a meat free diet saves approximately (0.8) to (2.1) tonnes of carbon emissions per person annually. If the entire global population of over 8 billion people made this shift, it would eliminate between (6.4) and (16.8) billion tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions every year*
For context, avoiding one transatlantic flight saves roughly (1.6) tonnes of carbon, and living completely car-free saves about (2.4) tonnes per person each year.**
Yet people continue to ignore the science and continue to eat the fresh of dead animals because it tastes nice. I wonder how many people who claim to be concerned about climate change refuse to make such a simple sacrifice of changing what they put in their mouths?
*UCL University College London
**Lund University |
Be careful about how scientific studies are quoted: lifting headline numbers without the underlying assumptions misses much of what the research is actually saying. The UCL‑ and Lund‑linked work that is often cited (including above) on diet and emissions does not model a simplistic “everyone goes vegetarian overnight” scenario. Instead, it focuses on consumption‑based emissions in high‑income, high‑meat‑consuming populations and implicitly accounts for existing low‑meat and vegetarian diets through region‑specific baselines.
Shifting those findings to a universal, immediate move to meat‑free diets therefore oversimplifies both the science and the social reality.
Around 8–10 percent of the world’s population is already vegetarian, and many others, particularly in low‑income regions, consume relatively little meat, meaning the marginal global savings would be lower than headline figures suggest.
The studies also make clear that not all meat is equal: beef and lamb are by far the most emissions‑intensive, while pork, chicken and many fish sources are significantly lower. Treating all animal products as equivalent obscures where the largest, fastest and most achievable emissions reductions actually lie.
The strongest scientific consensus is therefore not that everyone must go meat‑free, but that high‑income countries should dramatically reduce overall meat consumption and, in particular, shift away from beef and lamb.
Both UCL and Lund emphasise that this must be done alongside fair transition support for farmers, workers and rural economies, precisely to avoid the social and economic harms that would arise from abrupt or universal elimination.
It's true dietary change can still deliver a substantial share of the climate benefit, potentially cutting global emissions by 10–20 percent, but it has to be pursued in a systemic, equitable and realistic way rather than as a purely moralistic demand. |  | | |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:04 - Jun 26 with 1038 views | Guthrum |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 10:14 - Jun 26 by Blue_Heath |
Does this factor in what would happen to all the dead animals which we currently consume? |
We simply wouldn't breed them. Farmers aren't going to keep expensive herds and flocks with no demand. Not to mention the cost of shipping carcasses around the globe.
A bigger issue is where we are going to grow all the vegetable matter required to feed the global population. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:06 - Jun 26 with 1034 views | DanTheMan |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:04 - Jun 26 by Guthrum |
We simply wouldn't breed them. Farmers aren't going to keep expensive herds and flocks with no demand. Not to mention the cost of shipping carcasses around the globe.
A bigger issue is where we are going to grow all the vegetable matter required to feed the global population. |
On the vacated animal farmland? |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:07 - Jun 26 with 1022 views | positivity |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 10:54 - Jun 26 by StochesStotasBlewe |
Wildlife is suffering though……as are a fair chunk of the indigenous flora.
You must walk around with your eyes closed. |
absolutely, massive decline in uk birds, mammals, insects, harvests failing, thousands of extra deaths in the uk, millions globally.
on the upside, a few entitled folk in bentley are briefly enjoying it, so who cares. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:13 - Jun 26 with 1005 views | giant_stow |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 10:18 - Jun 26 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m not sure who is worse. Climate change deniers or people who believe in the science but ignore it to satisfy the tastebuds. |
Feels like there's some personal beef here? |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:19 - Jun 26 with 991 views | Guthrum |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:06 - Jun 26 by DanTheMan |
On the vacated animal farmland? |
Grazing land is not generally suitable for growing crops, which is why these zones ended up with primarily pastoral societies. Either the climate and soil are unsuitable, or the terrain too rugged.
An object lesson is the Great Plains in the US. Formerly the home of migrant herds of bison, farmers moved in during the latter part of the 19th century. Within 50 years, the thin topsoil was exhausted, dried up and blew away (the Dustbowl). Farming now requires the heavy use of artificial nutrients.
Or East Africa, where forests were chopped down to grow crops (often for export), leading to massive erosion of the no longer bound together hillsides.
The UK is globally unusual in having such a large proportion of viable arable land. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:26 - Jun 26 with 970 views | DanTheMan |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:19 - Jun 26 by Guthrum |
Grazing land is not generally suitable for growing crops, which is why these zones ended up with primarily pastoral societies. Either the climate and soil are unsuitable, or the terrain too rugged.
An object lesson is the Great Plains in the US. Formerly the home of migrant herds of bison, farmers moved in during the latter part of the 19th century. Within 50 years, the thin topsoil was exhausted, dried up and blew away (the Dustbowl). Farming now requires the heavy use of artificial nutrients.
Or East Africa, where forests were chopped down to grow crops (often for export), leading to massive erosion of the no longer bound together hillsides.
The UK is globally unusual in having such a large proportion of viable arable land. |
That's a somewhat UK centric view though. A good counter-example is us chopping down the Amazon to produce beef.
Obviously not all farmland is going to be suitable as you say, but there will be a decent amount that is, globally at least. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:27 - Jun 26 with 964 views | bluelagos |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:19 - Jun 26 by Guthrum |
Grazing land is not generally suitable for growing crops, which is why these zones ended up with primarily pastoral societies. Either the climate and soil are unsuitable, or the terrain too rugged.
An object lesson is the Great Plains in the US. Formerly the home of migrant herds of bison, farmers moved in during the latter part of the 19th century. Within 50 years, the thin topsoil was exhausted, dried up and blew away (the Dustbowl). Farming now requires the heavy use of artificial nutrients.
Or East Africa, where forests were chopped down to grow crops (often for export), leading to massive erosion of the no longer bound together hillsides.
The UK is globally unusual in having such a large proportion of viable arable land. |
But there's loads of land now that is currently used to grow animal feed. That could all be switched to grow food for those no longer eating meat.
For sure some land (sheep farming up a Welsh mountain) would be pointless switching but there's plenty that could.
As a recent convert to a non meat diet (for environmental concerns) I don't think we need to convert 100% from meat - but the more that do switch - that has to help the environment.
It's a bit like people saying you can't take any flights - or drive a car. For me - we should individually look to reduce them rather than expecting people to never take a holiday again.
And politically, we should look to incentivise greener habits (Transport, diet, housing etc.) |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:27 - Jun 26 with 961 views | NthQldITFC |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 09:55 - Jun 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Self interest you say.
Initial analysis of the current heatwave by GlasgowBlue 26 Jun 9:50I’ve said this before, Adopting a meat free diet saves approximately (0.8) to (2.1) tonnes of carbon emissions per person annually. If the entire global population of over 8 billion people made this shift, it would eliminate between (6.4) and (16.8) billion tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions every year*
For context, avoiding one transatlantic flight saves roughly (1.6) tonnes of carbon, and living completely car-free saves about (2.4) tonnes per person each year.**
Yet people continue to ignore the science and continue to eat the fresh of dead animals because it tastes nice. I wonder how many people who claim to be concerned about climate change refuse to make such a simple sacrifice of changing what they put in their mouths?
*UCL University College London
**Lund University
How has your conversation to a meat free diet gone since we last discussed this? |
Very good and fair point - I'm getting there. I do still eat a little pork and chicken, but my protein intake is probably about 90% fish and pulses.
You have a good and fair point. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:42 - Jun 26 with 931 views | Guthrum |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:27 - Jun 26 by bluelagos |
But there's loads of land now that is currently used to grow animal feed. That could all be switched to grow food for those no longer eating meat.
For sure some land (sheep farming up a Welsh mountain) would be pointless switching but there's plenty that could.
As a recent convert to a non meat diet (for environmental concerns) I don't think we need to convert 100% from meat - but the more that do switch - that has to help the environment.
It's a bit like people saying you can't take any flights - or drive a car. For me - we should individually look to reduce them rather than expecting people to never take a holiday again.
And politically, we should look to incentivise greener habits (Transport, diet, housing etc.) |
Indeed. A lot of the issue is excessive consumption of meat. Reducing the levels in parts of the developed world (plus eating more than just the prime cuts) will make a significant difference. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:47 - Jun 26 with 923 views | Guthrum |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:26 - Jun 26 by DanTheMan |
That's a somewhat UK centric view though. A good counter-example is us chopping down the Amazon to produce beef.
Obviously not all farmland is going to be suitable as you say, but there will be a decent amount that is, globally at least. |
The destruction of the Amazon for beef relates to what I've put in my reply to bluelagos, above.
There's quite large areas of the globe not suitable for large scale arable farming. Much of central Asia, large parts of Africa, obviously the higher lattitudes of Russia and Canada. Water use and irrigation are a world of problems in thenselves. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 12:56 - Jun 26 with 836 views | Ryorry |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 10:00 - Jun 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Or owning a dog which is also estimated around 0.9 tonnes of CO2 per annum. I’ll just stay pet free and eat fillet steak instead of buying pedigree chum :-). |
I didn't have any kids, so I reckon having one dog is perfectly permissable!
And not everyone can go red meat-free for medical reasons, though I cut down to 2 or 3 x weekly beef or liver years ago, but I havn't flown since 1994 (Orkney to Leeds) & my car travel is less than 2K miles annually.
Horses for courses. [Post edited 26 Jun 13:03]
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:02 - Jun 26 with 818 views | Ryorry |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:04 - Jun 26 by Guthrum |
We simply wouldn't breed them. Farmers aren't going to keep expensive herds and flocks with no demand. Not to mention the cost of shipping carcasses around the globe.
A bigger issue is where we are going to grow all the vegetable matter required to feed the global population. |
I primarily eat wild UK venison that are culled out of necessity because of overpopulation - there wouldn't be enough naturally occurring food for them to live healthily if numbers weren't kept down.
Good point re the landmass required to grow veg though - and, I'd add, the water needed to grow them them! | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:03 - Jun 26 with 809 views | Coastalblue |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 12:56 - Jun 26 by Ryorry |
I didn't have any kids, so I reckon having one dog is perfectly permissable!
And not everyone can go red meat-free for medical reasons, though I cut down to 2 or 3 x weekly beef or liver years ago, but I havn't flown since 1994 (Orkney to Leeds) & my car travel is less than 2K miles annually.
Horses for courses. [Post edited 26 Jun 13:03]
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and this is entirely the point, suggesting the world goes vegetarian is crazy because it's just never going to happen or at least not for decades. I say this as somebody who frequently goes 2-3 week at a time without eating meat but don't have the desire to give it up completely.
However, encouraging people to things across their entire lifestyle is much more achievable and likely more effective overall. Lots of small gains, yes maybe eat less meat, but also a few fewer car journeys, recycle, avoid buying things for the sake of it, and when you do look at the packaging used.
It needs to be something achievable for most people. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:12 - Jun 26 with 785 views | Ryorry |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:06 - Jun 26 by DanTheMan |
On the vacated animal farmland? |
The best farming for both productivity and environment is mixed.
Land that's naturally fertilised by cattle & sheep droppings produces higher yields of healthier arable crops, doesn't require artificial fertiliser which itself causes huge environmental problems; and enhances soil structure longterm rather than depleting it, which encourages and supports biodiversity.
Monoculture arablecrops are again a major environmental no-no. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:17 - Jun 26 with 767 views | Dubtractor |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:03 - Jun 26 by Coastalblue |
and this is entirely the point, suggesting the world goes vegetarian is crazy because it's just never going to happen or at least not for decades. I say this as somebody who frequently goes 2-3 week at a time without eating meat but don't have the desire to give it up completely.
However, encouraging people to things across their entire lifestyle is much more achievable and likely more effective overall. Lots of small gains, yes maybe eat less meat, but also a few fewer car journeys, recycle, avoid buying things for the sake of it, and when you do look at the packaging used.
It needs to be something achievable for most people. |
Yep.
Like many things related to looking after the planet/ourselves, it's not about a small number of people being perfect, you make the difference by everyone moving the dial just a bit. If everyone ate 20% less meat, took 20%less flights, walked to the shops sometimes, recycled 20% more etc etc, it would make a huge difference.
I don't disagree that the meat industry is one of the worst contributors ti tge problems we face, but there is no scenario where significant enough numbers just stop eating it. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:19 - Jun 26 with 765 views | NthQldITFC |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:12 - Jun 26 by Ryorry |
The best farming for both productivity and environment is mixed.
Land that's naturally fertilised by cattle & sheep droppings produces higher yields of healthier arable crops, doesn't require artificial fertiliser which itself causes huge environmental problems; and enhances soil structure longterm rather than depleting it, which encourages and supports biodiversity.
Monoculture arablecrops are again a major environmental no-no. |
Yes, although the key problem then I think is then that the great god 'Profit' dictates that those cattle have to produce a maximum RoI and therefore instead of being a sustainable herd, have be crammed in and fed with imported foodstuff from the cheapest source possible halfway around the world.
Capitalism has killed us. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:23 - Jun 26 with 752 views | NthQldITFC |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:27 - Jun 26 by NthQldITFC |
Very good and fair point - I'm getting there. I do still eat a little pork and chicken, but my protein intake is probably about 90% fish and pulses.
You have a good and fair point. |
Furthermore GB, I've just taken the pork off the shopping order for this week and permanently off the favourites list too, and that's all thanks to you today. | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:27 - Jun 26 with 734 views | hype313 |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:03 - Jun 26 by Coastalblue |
and this is entirely the point, suggesting the world goes vegetarian is crazy because it's just never going to happen or at least not for decades. I say this as somebody who frequently goes 2-3 week at a time without eating meat but don't have the desire to give it up completely.
However, encouraging people to things across their entire lifestyle is much more achievable and likely more effective overall. Lots of small gains, yes maybe eat less meat, but also a few fewer car journeys, recycle, avoid buying things for the sake of it, and when you do look at the packaging used.
It needs to be something achievable for most people. |
Exactly, Doubling down on meat eaters is only going to have the opposite effect.
Personally I made a choice a few years ago to stop eating red meat, so my diet consists of Sardines, Tuna, Mackerel and Chicken.
The health benefits have been quite dramatic.
And before others pipe up about mass farming of fish, I make sure everything I buy is wild caught. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:28 - Jun 26 with 727 views | Ryorry |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:19 - Jun 26 by NthQldITFC |
Yes, although the key problem then I think is then that the great god 'Profit' dictates that those cattle have to produce a maximum RoI and therefore instead of being a sustainable herd, have be crammed in and fed with imported foodstuff from the cheapest source possible halfway around the world.
Capitalism has killed us. |
"crammed in and fed with imported foodstuff from the cheapest source possible halfway around the world."
Only in some places. Round here, there are fields full of cattle & sheep munching away. A couple of butchers have their own non-intensive farms, & their supplies of beef & lamb (sometimes poultry, fowl & eggs too) come from those. Pork is from a local non-intensive outdoor producer.
Even some supermarkets are in on the act of sustainability & traceability. The public *are* becoming more concerned & fussier, though price is a barrier for many of course re the environmentally better choices. [Post edited 26 Jun 13:31]
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:28 - Jun 26 with 730 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Speaking as someone who hasn't eaten meat in 44 years, in a sane, balanced World some game in the diet would make complete sense. |  |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:33 - Jun 26 with 705 views | positivity |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 11:04 - Jun 26 by Guthrum |
We simply wouldn't breed them. Farmers aren't going to keep expensive herds and flocks with no demand. Not to mention the cost of shipping carcasses around the globe.
A bigger issue is where we are going to grow all the vegetable matter required to feed the global population. |
a lot of land is used to grow crops to feed animals, cut out the middle man(imal) | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:35 - Jun 26 with 701 views | positivity |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:28 - Jun 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Speaking as someone who hasn't eaten meat in 44 years, in a sane, balanced World some game in the diet would make complete sense. |
a lot of "game" is mass-bred and introduced | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:36 - Jun 26 with 694 views | positivity |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:27 - Jun 26 by hype313 |
Exactly, Doubling down on meat eaters is only going to have the opposite effect.
Personally I made a choice a few years ago to stop eating red meat, so my diet consists of Sardines, Tuna, Mackerel and Chicken.
The health benefits have been quite dramatic.
And before others pipe up about mass farming of fish, I make sure everything I buy is wild caught. |
you might want to add some vegetables and fruit to that diet! | |
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| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:36 - Jun 26 with 685 views | hype313 |
| Initial analysis of the current heatwave on 13:36 - Jun 26 by positivity |
you might want to add some vegetables and fruit to that diet! |
Greek Yoghurt with Blueberries Raspberries and Strawberries for breakfast! | |
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