| And there was I thinking 22:23 - Jul 15 with 6574 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Absolutely no one could mismanage a big game like Gareth Southgate. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:27 - Jul 15 with 5611 views | billlm |
How wrong you were |  | | |
| And there was I thinking on 22:28 - Jul 15 with 5607 views | GlasgowBlue |
After the DRC game I came very close to posting that had TT been in charge against an aging Italy team in the Euro Final, he wouldn’t have sat back on a 1-0 lead and we would have gone in to win the Euros. Glad I never said that out loud now. whoops. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:29 - Jul 15 with 5571 views | billlm |
| And there was I thinking on 22:28 - Jul 15 by GlasgowBlue |
After the DRC game I came very close to posting that had TT been in charge against an aging Italy team in the Euro Final, he wouldn’t have sat back on a 1-0 lead and we would have gone in to win the Euros. Glad I never said that out loud now. whoops. |
Funny | | | |
| And there was I thinking on 22:30 - Jul 15 with 5571 views | homer_123 |
I'm gonna get pelters for this.
I saw a team that scored the first goal and shrank. Literally stopped playing and dropped deeper and deeper. We never troubled Argentina again.
I don't think that is on Tuchel. I think the players need to look at themselves.
Clearly the plan was to manage Messi and then try and play on the break and quickly. It was perfect and then all that discipline stopped.
The players looked scared.
I think Tuchel reacted and tried to shore us up as by that point getting us back on any kind of front foot was impossible. It didn't work.
Why the players stopped I can't say but I don't think it was on Tuchels instruction. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:51]
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| And there was I thinking on 22:31 - Jul 15 with 5545 views | homer_123 |
| And there was I thinking on 22:28 - Jul 15 by GlasgowBlue |
After the DRC game I came very close to posting that had TT been in charge against an aging Italy team in the Euro Final, he wouldn’t have sat back on a 1-0 lead and we would have gone in to win the Euros. Glad I never said that out loud now. whoops. |
Oddly, for me, those Italy and Croatia games hit harder than tonight.
We were a better team back then. | |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:32 - Jul 15 with 5518 views | positivity |
Southgate was never that clueless. 3 defensive substitutions with no outlet ball was clearly going disastrously, then he waited 15 further mins to bring on some attackers. burn at centre forward was sub mick! |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:34 - Jul 15 with 5483 views | Trequartista |
| And there was I thinking on 22:30 - Jul 15 by homer_123 |
I'm gonna get pelters for this.
I saw a team that scored the first goal and shrank. Literally stopped playing and dropped deeper and deeper. We never troubled Argentina again.
I don't think that is on Tuchel. I think the players need to look at themselves.
Clearly the plan was to manage Messi and then try and play on the break and quickly. It was perfect and then all that discipline stopped.
The players looked scared.
I think Tuchel reacted and tried to shore us up as by that point getting us back on any kind of front foot was impossible. It didn't work.
Why the players stopped I can't say but I don't think it was on Tuchels instruction. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:51]
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Certainly it's natural to defend deeper when winning, but not to the extent of a low block that deep - if that was the players then it's on the manager to get them back up the pitch but he just brought more defenders on so for me, it's on Tuchel. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:35 - Jul 15 with 5470 views | FrimleyBlue |
| And there was I thinking on 22:30 - Jul 15 by homer_123 |
I'm gonna get pelters for this.
I saw a team that scored the first goal and shrank. Literally stopped playing and dropped deeper and deeper. We never troubled Argentina again.
I don't think that is on Tuchel. I think the players need to look at themselves.
Clearly the plan was to manage Messi and then try and play on the break and quickly. It was perfect and then all that discipline stopped.
The players looked scared.
I think Tuchel reacted and tried to shore us up as by that point getting us back on any kind of front foot was impossible. It didn't work.
Why the players stopped I can't say but I don't think it was on Tuchels instruction. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:51]
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I don't think that's fair to the players, I saw tuchel waving players back at one point.... back!
Players can only do so much when giving the tools by the manager, asking midfielders to run a game with no forwards ahead of them or any wide players to find it's asking for trouble. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:36 - Jul 15 with 5455 views | NthQldITFC |
| And there was I thinking on 22:30 - Jul 15 by homer_123 |
I'm gonna get pelters for this.
I saw a team that scored the first goal and shrank. Literally stopped playing and dropped deeper and deeper. We never troubled Argentina again.
I don't think that is on Tuchel. I think the players need to look at themselves.
Clearly the plan was to manage Messi and then try and play on the break and quickly. It was perfect and then all that discipline stopped.
The players looked scared.
I think Tuchel reacted and tried to shore us up as by that point getting us back on any kind of front foot was impossible. It didn't work.
Why the players stopped I can't say but I don't think it was on Tuchels instruction. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:51]
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But if that's the case, then it's his job to see it - I mean, everybody in the world could see it, instantly, it would have been obvious to someone who'd never watched football in their life - and get instruction on there to come back out immediately.
If you're gonna do anything in that situation, go narrow, don't go flat - leave an outlet up the pitch ffs. But Kane can't chase anything it seems. Great player in some situations, useless in that situation. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:37 - Jul 15 with 5411 views | TractorWood |
| And there was I thinking on 22:30 - Jul 15 by homer_123 |
I'm gonna get pelters for this.
I saw a team that scored the first goal and shrank. Literally stopped playing and dropped deeper and deeper. We never troubled Argentina again.
I don't think that is on Tuchel. I think the players need to look at themselves.
Clearly the plan was to manage Messi and then try and play on the break and quickly. It was perfect and then all that discipline stopped.
The players looked scared.
I think Tuchel reacted and tried to shore us up as by that point getting us back on any kind of front foot was impossible. It didn't work.
Why the players stopped I can't say but I don't think it was on Tuchels instruction. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:51]
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I hear you. However, we scored and briefly Argentina looked rattled by it.
However, we tactically crumbled from 3 substitutions that were totally negative. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:38 - Jul 15 with 5383 views | LeoMuff |
| And there was I thinking on 22:32 - Jul 15 by positivity |
Southgate was never that clueless. 3 defensive substitutions with no outlet ball was clearly going disastrously, then he waited 15 further mins to bring on some attackers. burn at centre forward was sub mick! |
Sit deep but you need one or two speedsters to make them think and not push you back to your own goal, that isn’t Kane. Huge opportunity wasted, I expected better from Tuchel, was so obvious we were way too deep. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:39 - Jul 15 with 5351 views | Swansea_Blue |
| And there was I thinking on 22:32 - Jul 15 by positivity |
Southgate was never that clueless. 3 defensive substitutions with no outlet ball was clearly going disastrously, then he waited 15 further mins to bring on some attackers. burn at centre forward was sub mick! |
Yeah, he picked hell of a game to start experimenting 🙈 |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:39 - Jul 15 with 5340 views | homer_123 |
| And there was I thinking on 22:36 - Jul 15 by NthQldITFC |
But if that's the case, then it's his job to see it - I mean, everybody in the world could see it, instantly, it would have been obvious to someone who'd never watched football in their life - and get instruction on there to come back out immediately.
If you're gonna do anything in that situation, go narrow, don't go flat - leave an outlet up the pitch ffs. But Kane can't chase anything it seems. Great player in some situations, useless in that situation. |
My thinking is that was what he said at the drinks break.
But the players were not doing it. So what do you do as a manager at that point....stick or twist. He tried to shore us up...it didn't work. Tuchel isn't blameless but literally the players stopped when we scored...literally sat. | |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:40 - Jul 15 with 5312 views | homer_123 |
| And there was I thinking on 22:37 - Jul 15 by TractorWood |
I hear you. However, we scored and briefly Argentina looked rattled by it.
However, we tactically crumbled from 3 substitutions that were totally negative. |
Indeed. As I said Tuchel isn't blameless. | |
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| And there was I thinking on 22:56 - Jul 15 with 5195 views | darkhorse28 |
Have to agree / the most Southgate thing ever.
Kane on with 209 defenders and zero pace to counter - while Saka and Watkins get the water bottles filled up.
Watkins/Rashford/Rogers/Saka/Gordon - any combination on the break would have caused them huge issues.
We’ve basically went attack V Defense with a third of a game to go, against a side with twice the quality of a Mexico or Norway .., not great decision making for sure.
Argentina are v good - when they play, which only seems to be when they’re behind and rolling about for fouls doesn’t cut it. But with their defender booked and clumsy at times, we’d have killed them with pace on the counter.
But a wild ride.., everything right up until when it matters in the heat of battle.
You’re 100% right. Southgate esk. Uncanny. | | | |
| And there was I thinking on 23:02 - Jul 15 with 5194 views | Swansea_Blue |
| And there was I thinking on 22:35 - Jul 15 by FrimleyBlue |
I don't think that's fair to the players, I saw tuchel waving players back at one point.... back!
Players can only do so much when giving the tools by the manager, asking midfielders to run a game with no forwards ahead of them or any wide players to find it's asking for trouble. |
I’d also be a bit worried if a manger took the lead from the players and let them tactically dictate his subs too!
Players can drop too deep for the manager’s liking of course, but bringing on extra defenders suggests it was a deliberate tactical decision from Tuchel. We’ll never know, but maybe the ocassion got to him or maybe we were cooked. Messi wasn’t cooked though and he walks everywhere. We offered him the midfield for the last 35 mins and that has to be on Tuchel (he had a hydration break through this capitulation too remember). It’s on him imo 100% | |
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| And there was I thinking on 23:05 - Jul 15 with 5159 views | TractorWood |
| And there was I thinking on 22:56 - Jul 15 by darkhorse28 |
Have to agree / the most Southgate thing ever.
Kane on with 209 defenders and zero pace to counter - while Saka and Watkins get the water bottles filled up.
Watkins/Rashford/Rogers/Saka/Gordon - any combination on the break would have caused them huge issues.
We’ve basically went attack V Defense with a third of a game to go, against a side with twice the quality of a Mexico or Norway .., not great decision making for sure.
Argentina are v good - when they play, which only seems to be when they’re behind and rolling about for fouls doesn’t cut it. But with their defender booked and clumsy at times, we’d have killed them with pace on the counter.
But a wild ride.., everything right up until when it matters in the heat of battle.
You’re 100% right. Southgate esk. Uncanny. |
I thought Saka on the break would have been a sensible sub. | |
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| And there was I thinking on 23:08 - Jul 15 with 5120 views | MVBlue |
Southgate deserves respect. He brought that team together and made many right calls. |  |
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| And there was I thinking on 23:11 - Jul 15 with 5104 views | MVBlue |
| And there was I thinking on 22:56 - Jul 15 by darkhorse28 |
Have to agree / the most Southgate thing ever.
Kane on with 209 defenders and zero pace to counter - while Saka and Watkins get the water bottles filled up.
Watkins/Rashford/Rogers/Saka/Gordon - any combination on the break would have caused them huge issues.
We’ve basically went attack V Defense with a third of a game to go, against a side with twice the quality of a Mexico or Norway .., not great decision making for sure.
Argentina are v good - when they play, which only seems to be when they’re behind and rolling about for fouls doesn’t cut it. But with their defender booked and clumsy at times, we’d have killed them with pace on the counter.
But a wild ride.., everything right up until when it matters in the heat of battle.
You’re 100% right. Southgate esk. Uncanny. |
Southgate never got a hydration break to give new orders did he? Did Tuchel tell Pickford to kick long constantly and continue the 12% possession? Tuchel only slightly better than Southgate, and I think that will show out over time. But we've had good fun at this tournament and after a potential incoming 24 hours of negative press he still has my respect. | |
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| And there was I thinking on 23:30 - Jul 15 with 5020 views | quirkie |
| And there was I thinking on 23:08 - Jul 15 by MVBlue |
Southgate deserves respect. He brought that team together and made many right calls. |
Yes fair point after the disaster of Brazil 2014 and France 2016.
But... doesn't get away from the fact that he was very defensive tactically when 1-0 up against Croatia and even worse when 1-0 up against Italy.
And.. nothing has changed under Tuchel.
I fear for who the FA are going to appoint next, Tuchel is gone. [Post edited 16 Jul 1:28]
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| And there was I thinking on 23:32 - Jul 15 with 5009 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| And there was I thinking on 23:30 - Jul 15 by quirkie |
Yes fair point after the disaster of Brazil 2014 and France 2016.
But... doesn't get away from the fact that he was very defensive tactically when 1-0 up against Croatia and even worse when 1-0 up against Italy.
And.. nothing has changed under Tuchel.
I fear for who the FA are going to appoint next, Tuchel is gone. [Post edited 16 Jul 1:28]
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Harry Redknapp: It’s your time!!! | |
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| And there was I thinking on 23:40 - Jul 15 with 4979 views | pointofblue |
| And there was I thinking on 23:30 - Jul 15 by quirkie |
Yes fair point after the disaster of Brazil 2014 and France 2016.
But... doesn't get away from the fact that he was very defensive tactically when 1-0 up against Croatia and even worse when 1-0 up against Italy.
And.. nothing has changed under Tuchel.
I fear for who the FA are going to appoint next, Tuchel is gone. [Post edited 16 Jul 1:28]
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Are they really going to sack Tuchel after making the World Cup semi finals? Even with the tactical disaster class tonight. | |
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| And there was I thinking on 23:41 - Jul 15 with 4970 views | ElderGrizzly |
| And there was I thinking on 22:30 - Jul 15 by homer_123 |
I'm gonna get pelters for this.
I saw a team that scored the first goal and shrank. Literally stopped playing and dropped deeper and deeper. We never troubled Argentina again.
I don't think that is on Tuchel. I think the players need to look at themselves.
Clearly the plan was to manage Messi and then try and play on the break and quickly. It was perfect and then all that discipline stopped.
The players looked scared.
I think Tuchel reacted and tried to shore us up as by that point getting us back on any kind of front foot was impossible. It didn't work.
Why the players stopped I can't say but I don't think it was on Tuchels instruction. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:51]
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Taking Gordon off for Konsa sent a very clear message to the players |  | | |
| And there was I thinking on 23:51 - Jul 15 with 4920 views | nrb1985 |
| And there was I thinking on 23:40 - Jul 15 by pointofblue |
Are they really going to sack Tuchel after making the World Cup semi finals? Even with the tactical disaster class tonight. |
Suspect the press and the public will make it so uncomfortable for him/them he has to go.
And rightly, so for all the reasons very well described in this thread.
His answers in the various post match interviews stank as well. | | | |
| And there was I thinking on 23:52 - Jul 15 with 4927 views | MVBlue |
| And there was I thinking on 23:30 - Jul 15 by quirkie |
Yes fair point after the disaster of Brazil 2014 and France 2016.
But... doesn't get away from the fact that he was very defensive tactically when 1-0 up against Croatia and even worse when 1-0 up against Italy.
And.. nothing has changed under Tuchel.
I fear for who the FA are going to appoint next, Tuchel is gone. [Post edited 16 Jul 1:28]
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Tuchel is not gone. People too quick to replace. Bobby Robson lasted 8 years despite the press and gave his best in the final tournament 1990. Think how well we have done. And Bellingham is far better than Gascoigne. that was our best World Cup since 1966 when the dust settles, i'm calling it. | |
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