| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:19 - Sep 22 with 1983 views | Blueschev |
I'm not sure that with Reform's popularity currently on the wane, giving them a huge shot in the arm would be a great idea. Especially now they have so much financial clout behind them. |  | |  |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:24 - Sep 22 with 1947 views | Trequartista |
That article looks suspiciously skewed towards its hoped for conclusion to me.
If 35% want EU membership, surely we can assume that all the other options that they have conveniently splintered into different types of not wanting EU membership is 48% ? |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:26 - Sep 22 with 1918 views | lowhouseblue |
you know that poll, excluding don't knows, is 41.7% in favour of rejoining and 58.3% not rejoining. which explains why labour won't go near this in the next manifesto.
a poll with 6 options but which is then presented as a binary choice with the other 5 opposing options only scored individually is quite misleading. [Post edited 22 Sep 13:27]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:33 - Sep 22 with 1866 views | vapour_trail |
Even if there’s a broad(er) acknowledgment of the absolute shitstorm that was sold into the nation by its charlatan politicians and commentators ten years ago, I’m not sure a Rejoin ticket is necessarily a winner.
Reckon there’s a sizeable cohort that can’t be arsed to go through another dose of that argument and the elevation of c^*+s that inevitably comes with it. |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:37 - Sep 22 with 1800 views | DJR |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:19 - Sep 22 by Blueschev |
I'm not sure that with Reform's popularity currently on the wane, giving them a huge shot in the arm would be a great idea. Especially now they have so much financial clout behind them. |
And given that Farage stood aside to let Johnson "Get Brexit Done", I would imagine a Tory/Reform pact of some sort to "Keep Brexit Done".
It mustn't be forgotten that, even with a drop in Reform's fortunes, they and the Tories are currently polling at around 46%.
Once again this seems to be one of Burnham's teasers (PR springs to mind) that are unlikely to see the light of day. [Post edited 22 Sep 13:38]
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:49 - Sep 22 with 1711 views | nodge_blue |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:37 - Sep 22 by DJR |
And given that Farage stood aside to let Johnson "Get Brexit Done", I would imagine a Tory/Reform pact of some sort to "Keep Brexit Done".
It mustn't be forgotten that, even with a drop in Reform's fortunes, they and the Tories are currently polling at around 46%.
Once again this seems to be one of Burnham's teasers (PR springs to mind) that are unlikely to see the light of day. [Post edited 22 Sep 13:38]
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But that pact could happen regardless. Better to go for it i say. Probably get a few of tge liberal and green voters |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:56 - Sep 22 with 1658 views | Blueschev |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:49 - Sep 22 by nodge_blue |
But that pact could happen regardless. Better to go for it i say. Probably get a few of tge liberal and green voters |
The charge of not having a democratic mandate is already thrown at Burnham by those on the right. Campaigning to re-joining the EU would see Labour as painted as antidemocratic authoritarians that ignore the "will of the people", and if history shows us anything, it would work.
Even if there was clear polling data showing a majority in favour of re-joining, I'm not sure there's any appetite to redo the Brexit debate again. | | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:57 - Sep 22 with 1655 views | CopfordBlue |
Great, an election campaign focused on Brexit. Just what the country needs. Easier for Burnham and Labour than trying to address the issues right in front of them. |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:57 - Sep 22 with 1651 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:19 - Sep 22 by Blueschev |
I'm not sure that with Reform's popularity currently on the wane, giving them a huge shot in the arm would be a great idea. Especially now they have so much financial clout behind them. |
Financial clout that will likely be removed in the next 3 months due to the new law coming in.
Also, with an election not likely until 2029, the chance of Farage sitting around that long is small I assume. And will Reform have any hope without him? [Post edited 22 Sep 13:58]
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:58 - Sep 22 with 1639 views | BlueBadger |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:57 - Sep 22 by CopfordBlue |
Great, an election campaign focused on Brexit. Just what the country needs. Easier for Burnham and Labour than trying to address the issues right in front of them. |
Rejoining the EU would give us more control over our borders.... |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:59 - Sep 22 with 1629 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:56 - Sep 22 by Blueschev |
The charge of not having a democratic mandate is already thrown at Burnham by those on the right. Campaigning to re-joining the EU would see Labour as painted as antidemocratic authoritarians that ignore the "will of the people", and if history shows us anything, it would work.
Even if there was clear polling data showing a majority in favour of re-joining, I'm not sure there's any appetite to redo the Brexit debate again. |
But if he got voted in, wouldn't that literally give him the democratic mandate?
It was never a one and done. | | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:59 - Sep 22 with 1628 views | J2BLUE |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:57 - Sep 22 by CopfordBlue |
Great, an election campaign focused on Brexit. Just what the country needs. Easier for Burnham and Labour than trying to address the issues right in front of them. |
Most of our issues are due to lack of investment.
If re-joining would boost the economy by 5-10% would you want to do it? |  | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:02 - Sep 22 with 1602 views | homer_123 |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:58 - Sep 22 by BlueBadger |
Rejoining the EU would give us more control over our borders.... |
Reformers have no idea how to compute this information.... |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:04 - Sep 22 with 1581 views | Blueschev |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:59 - Sep 22 by ElderGrizzly |
But if he got voted in, wouldn't that literally give him the democratic mandate?
It was never a one and done. |
I'm saying that were Labour to stand on a re-join ticket, they'd be far less likely to win.
"Unelected Prime Minister now wants to overturn the will of the people." | | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:16 - Sep 22 with 1499 views | J2BLUE |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:04 - Sep 22 by Blueschev |
I'm saying that were Labour to stand on a re-join ticket, they'd be far less likely to win.
"Unelected Prime Minister now wants to overturn the will of the people." |
If they did plan to re-join they could be getting monthly polls done by all the major polling companies. That way they could say X, Y and Z have run 18 polls between them and 16 suggest that people want to re-join so we think it's fair to ask the question again. Then they could turn it on the leavers saying the likes of Farage are trying to stop the will of the people. | | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:22 - Sep 22 with 1468 views | giant_stow |
The country was in a less stressed and hateful place during the Brexit debate, as odd as that sounds - I'm not sure we could withstand a rerun now. I was a strong remainer, but given we'd most likely to have to bend over and accept the Euro / a worse deal than we had, I can only see trouble with a ref v2, at least right now. |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:23 - Sep 22 with 1465 views | EdwardStone |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:16 - Sep 22 by J2BLUE |
If they did plan to re-join they could be getting monthly polls done by all the major polling companies. That way they could say X, Y and Z have run 18 polls between them and 16 suggest that people want to re-join so we think it's fair to ask the question again. Then they could turn it on the leavers saying the likes of Farage are trying to stop the will of the people. |
The 2016 Brexit vote overturned the "Will of the People" who voted in the 1973 referendum to remain within the EEC as it then was.
The will of the people is a snapshot in time, not a permanent state |  | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:24 - Sep 22 with 1462 views | NedPlimpton |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:24 - Sep 22 by Trequartista |
That article looks suspiciously skewed towards its hoped for conclusion to me.
If 35% want EU membership, surely we can assume that all the other options that they have conveniently splintered into different types of not wanting EU membership is 48% ? |
Why have you assumed that?
The poll is "which EU relationship respondents most wanted the UK Government to propose"
That doesn't mean that those who voted Single Market or Customs Union for example, wouldn't think our current position is preferable to re-joining. It just means it wasn't their first choice? |  | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:30 - Sep 22 with 1430 views | ITFC_Essex |
I think if he does that you can all but hand Farage and his cronies the keys to number 10. Labour members like you really are quite detached to believe that will win an election, sure middle class and wealthy people are screaming to rejoin, but the white-working class British poor will vote Reform if he does that. Have you not walked around a Council estate lately? Some of the views make the NF seem like Liberal Democrats. ... and I say this as no supporter of Reform or Farage, but much like with the Democrats in the states, and Trump, the middle left sticking your fingers in your ears like that is only going to see you lose more elections.
If you keep failing to listen, this is only going to keep getting worse. |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:30 - Sep 22 with 1419 views | Trequartista |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:24 - Sep 22 by NedPlimpton |
Why have you assumed that?
The poll is "which EU relationship respondents most wanted the UK Government to propose"
That doesn't mean that those who voted Single Market or Customs Union for example, wouldn't think our current position is preferable to re-joining. It just means it wasn't their first choice? |
Because "EU Membership" is all one block, if they meant Customs Union within the EU that would just mean EU Membership.
Therefore I assume it means Customs Union outside the EU (Turkey option) and Single Market outside the EU (Norway option) | |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:38 - Sep 22 with 1377 views | DJR |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 13:49 - Sep 22 by nodge_blue |
But that pact could happen regardless. Better to go for it i say. Probably get a few of tge liberal and green voters |
Your first paragraph is the fear I have but I can't see Labour, the Greens and the Lib Dems entering into some sort of pact, which in any event is against Labour rules. | | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:52 - Sep 22 with 1318 views | NedPlimpton |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:30 - Sep 22 by Trequartista |
Because "EU Membership" is all one block, if they meant Customs Union within the EU that would just mean EU Membership.
Therefore I assume it means Customs Union outside the EU (Turkey option) and Single Market outside the EU (Norway option) |
Yeah, so why couldn't someone's first choice be a customs union as in the Turkey example, and second option be full EU membership? | | | |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:59 - Sep 22 with 1289 views | Trequartista |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:52 - Sep 22 by NedPlimpton |
Yeah, so why couldn't someone's first choice be a customs union as in the Turkey example, and second option be full EU membership? |
The poll has no data about second options.
I think we should be more concerned about how an average punter like myself can see through such a blatant smoke and mirrors trick from a supposedly reputable newspaper than arguing the toss about second options. I mean look at that bloody map. | |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 15:13 - Sep 22 with 1238 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 14:22 - Sep 22 by giant_stow |
The country was in a less stressed and hateful place during the Brexit debate, as odd as that sounds - I'm not sure we could withstand a rerun now. I was a strong remainer, but given we'd most likely to have to bend over and accept the Euro / a worse deal than we had, I can only see trouble with a ref v2, at least right now. |
There have been noises coming out of EU states that we could retain the £ and likely get some of our concessions back. It’d be a no brainer. We’re paying over £4.5BN to them now and would get full membership for not much over double that, which would leverage tens of billions in extra revenue in the country. If Labour genuinely are interested in growth it’s the obvious place to start. If they won’t it’s purely political. |  |
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| Andy Burnham does not rule out Brexit reversal being in next Labour manifesto on 15:35 - Sep 22 with 1159 views | Mullet |
The biggest injustice is that the architects of Brexit never faced justice for the lies, harm and damage they have done to this country.
In a fully functioning democracy they jail people like that. |  |
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