| Man City punishment 09:31 - Oct 18 with 2179 views | Linners |
Apologies for another thread on this, and I appreciate it's getting a bit boring, but I was thinking yesterday that surely the PL have no alternative but to expel City?
The team we played yesterday was packed full of talent that they had been able to buy because of the cheating - so it just goes on. They could give City a 60 point deduction but I'm not 100% sure that would relegate them, and even if they did they'd be back in a few months with a whirl of self-congratulations and vindication.
I think they need to expel them and ban them from returning for a minimum of 3 years. They'll then have to work the rest of it out with the EFL. If City are back challenging for the PL title in 28/29 then I just don't think it's a deterrent. |  | | |  |
| Man City punishment on 10:06 - Oct 18 with 1764 views | Edmundo |
Bordeaux-style relegation 3 tiers would work. Depends on EFL though: would L2 teams want to effectively lose a promotion spot?
Tbh best scenario is they decide to rejuvenate this European super league, then all the other trams that think they're untouchable can f off and play with each other till the cows come home. |  |
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| Man City punishment on 10:13 - Oct 18 with 1721 views | Pinewoodblue |
What gets me is the fact there are another eight years that haven’t been investigated no reason to suppose they stopped cheating in the last year investigated.
If they lose their appeal they would be wise to confess to any wrongdoings up to , and including, this season. |  |
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| Man City punishment on 10:16 - Oct 18 with 1711 views | EastTownBlue |
Have heard that expulsion will require fourteen out of the twenty clubs to vote in favour of which apparently is not a given. |  | | |
| Man City punishment on 10:51 - Oct 18 with 1649 views | barcelonablue2 |
| Man City punishment on 10:13 - Oct 18 by Pinewoodblue |
What gets me is the fact there are another eight years that haven’t been investigated no reason to suppose they stopped cheating in the last year investigated.
If they lose their appeal they would be wise to confess to any wrongdoings up to , and including, this season. |
Had an argument about this the other day, with a Catalan I know,
Before City Pep was at Bayern and Barca.
Clubs with dozens of European and domestic trophies. Clubs who have been dominant champions of their respective leagues. Clubs with youth academies at the time with some of the greatest names of football history - and the name that would dominate European football for the next 10 years
and he left them for...
a club with no trophies but a recent FA cup, no recent history of league success and not even a youth academy (it was only founded 2 years before he joined). It wasn't even a one city club, Manchester until 2009 meant one club and that wasn't City.
But Pep has the biggest budget, bigger than Bayern, bigger than Barca, bigger than United, despite the club already breaking its transfer records and already spending like £0.5 billion up to 2016 he has another 400million to spend the next 2 seasons?
The guy knew he was winning the league by cheating but he did it anyway. |  | | |
| Man City punishment on 10:57 - Oct 18 with 1604 views | Linners |
| Man City punishment on 10:51 - Oct 18 by barcelonablue2 |
Had an argument about this the other day, with a Catalan I know,
Before City Pep was at Bayern and Barca.
Clubs with dozens of European and domestic trophies. Clubs who have been dominant champions of their respective leagues. Clubs with youth academies at the time with some of the greatest names of football history - and the name that would dominate European football for the next 10 years
and he left them for...
a club with no trophies but a recent FA cup, no recent history of league success and not even a youth academy (it was only founded 2 years before he joined). It wasn't even a one city club, Manchester until 2009 meant one club and that wasn't City.
But Pep has the biggest budget, bigger than Bayern, bigger than Barca, bigger than United, despite the club already breaking its transfer records and already spending like £0.5 billion up to 2016 he has another 400million to spend the next 2 seasons?
The guy knew he was winning the league by cheating but he did it anyway. |
I think there's doubtless something in this, but I can't see it sticking. Same with the players at Southampton - they knew damn well what was going on. Doesn't make them (as) guilty perhaps, but certainly not victims. | | | |
| Man City punishment on 10:58 - Oct 18 with 1605 views | BlueRaider |
| Man City punishment on 10:13 - Oct 18 by Pinewoodblue |
What gets me is the fact there are another eight years that haven’t been investigated no reason to suppose they stopped cheating in the last year investigated.
If they lose their appeal they would be wise to confess to any wrongdoings up to , and including, this season. |
Even if they weren't cheating in those subsequent years, they were benefitting from the prior cheating and were in a position they shouldn't have been in, so in my view those titles should be stripped as well | |
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| Man City punishment on 12:52 - Oct 18 with 1434 views | bsw72 |
| Man City punishment on 10:13 - Oct 18 by Pinewoodblue |
What gets me is the fact there are another eight years that haven’t been investigated no reason to suppose they stopped cheating in the last year investigated.
If they lose their appeal they would be wise to confess to any wrongdoings up to , and including, this season. |
Proving the case for the existing years and Man City failing with their appeal will make subsequent investigations a very different task than if they had tried to continue to expand the investigation across subsequent years.
Remember it can often take up to a year after the prior financial year closes to fully understand the books and tax position of a company.
The FA had to start with a sufficient base which covers vereyrhing they needed without drowning themselves and their lawyers in more work. |  | | |
| Man City punishment on 12:59 - Oct 18 with 1421 views | BrayBlue |
Man City should be forced to pay back all 714pts they accrued between 2008-18, the period when they were guilty of cheating - and here’s how: next season they start on - 714pts. For the sake of easy maths, let’s say they earn 100pts, that would see them relegated on -614pts.
Here’s the crucial bit: the points deduction rolls over! So whenever they return to the PL they would start on -614pts, and so on until all 714pts have been repaid. It would take City a decade or so to wipe the slate clean, roughly the same amount of time they were cheating - seems fair to me?
Cheers,
JK [Post edited 18 Oct 13:01]
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| Man City punishment on 15:49 - Oct 18 with 1286 views | MVBlue |
They’ll get a 70 point deduction, no rolling deduction, and a one year or a bit more transfer ban. And it won’t be enough. But it will be something to show them and others. |  |
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| Man City punishment on 12:35 - Oct 19 with 1075 views | Olcol |
| Man City punishment on 15:49 - Oct 18 by MVBlue |
They’ll get a 70 point deduction, no rolling deduction, and a one year or a bit more transfer ban. And it won’t be enough. But it will be something to show them and others. |
Needs to be at least a rolling 114 points and a transfer purchase ban for 9 consecutive windows, and done soon, so they have to play Knowing what their future restrictions are. This would be a seen as a soft minimum and may not be acceptable as a reasonable deterrant by some supporters.
At the other end of the scale drop them to non league football. With 9 year transfer ban. | | | |
| Man City punishment on 12:38 - Oct 19 with 1062 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| Man City punishment on 10:06 - Oct 18 by Edmundo |
Bordeaux-style relegation 3 tiers would work. Depends on EFL though: would L2 teams want to effectively lose a promotion spot?
Tbh best scenario is they decide to rejuvenate this European super league, then all the other trams that think they're untouchable can f off and play with each other till the cows come home. |
No different to the Championship losing a promotion spot is it? Whatever league they're in, they'll be promoted every season until they're back in the premier league. |  | | |
| Rumour is that… on 12:47 - Oct 19 with 1010 views | Bloots |
…the process is nearly complete, which is quicker then expected and potentially means that a “compromise” has been reached.
I expect that ultimately the PL won’t want to lose them for financial reasons and that the EFL won’t want to take them for competitive reasons.
I can see an outcome where they get a big points deduction, 60-100, but split over a number of years, 2-4.
That way they’ll stay in the PL but struggle to get into the CL and maybe Europe entirely.
They’ll also get a big fine, obviously, some sort of transfer ban and probably sanctions against directors.
Let’s face it though, whatever they get fans from all sides will moan. |  |
| Keaton, Kint, McManus, Fenster and Hockney. |
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| Man City punishment on 12:54 - Oct 19 with 960 views | surreyblue |
- Strip them of the tainted titles
- 70+ points deduction this season
- 900m fine payable over a 10 year period - but it counts against whichever financial regime they are in so it has an ongoing impact on onfield performance. | | | |
| Man City punishment on 13:16 - Oct 19 with 907 views | barcelonablue2 |
| Man City punishment on 10:57 - Oct 18 by Linners |
I think there's doubtless something in this, but I can't see it sticking. Same with the players at Southampton - they knew damn well what was going on. Doesn't make them (as) guilty perhaps, but certainly not victims. |
But they were given a harsh punishment is the difference. Kicked out of the play offs.
If City are not kicked out it will leave a stench. The EFL knew this and had the cojones to act on it for Saints. Okay the final was not perfect for Boro fans in particular but it was legitimate and could be respected. They cleared the stench out even if it was hard choice.
Focus seems to still be stop city winning titles when the real question is why should they be in the league.
We talk about clubs circling the drain or failing to meet expectations due to 'a rot' at the club. If City are not expelled harshly why should the entire Prem be any different. It will be a rotten league inside and out and everyone will know it. | | | |
| Man City punishment on 13:23 - Oct 19 with 880 views | J2BLUE |
I would be amazed if they were expelled.
The sweet spot would be a points deduction so big that they would almost certainly go down but with just enough of a chance of staying up that have to keep fighting for as long as possible. |  | | |
| Man City punishment on 13:58 - Oct 19 with 773 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Man City punishment on 15:49 - Oct 18 by MVBlue |
They’ll get a 70 point deduction, no rolling deduction, and a one year or a bit more transfer ban. And it won’t be enough. But it will be something to show them and others. |
Premier League punishments can be applied by EFL. That would mean City brung relegated each season until all deducted points have been cancelled. Then, if they still exist, it takes years to rise up through the Pyramid. Not going to happen. | |
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| Man City punishment on 14:12 - Oct 19 with 744 views | barcelonablue2 |
| Man City punishment on 13:23 - Oct 19 by J2BLUE |
I would be amazed if they were expelled.
The sweet spot would be a points deduction so big that they would almost certainly go down but with just enough of a chance of staying up that have to keep fighting for as long as possible. |
I also sincerely don't believe it will happen. I just believe it should be the answer.
What I really don't get though is the argument they are top big to fail. If you think about the number of big clubs that have been via natural or forced relegation/ expulsion destroyed over the last 40 years theres just no truth in it. There was English football before city there will be English football after city. It's not even like La Liga or Scottish prem where by killing a big club youre only left with one champion.
No-one bemoans the loss of Oldham or Luton as a top club nowadays do they. Heck Leeds came all the way back from being kicked out. Not like the Prem is going to fail and assume fetal position if Haaland moves to Barça/ Real. What if the guy wants to move in a year anyway. What then. Almost like the pundits are scared they'll have to learn an entirely new players name just to have some seemingly relevant to talk about | | | |
| Man City punishment on 14:19 - Oct 19 with 721 views | DanTheMan |
Removal of all their titles.
Expulsion from both PL and EFL. Down you go. |  |
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| Rumour is that… on 14:25 - Oct 19 with 702 views | Mullet |
| Rumour is that… on 12:47 - Oct 19 by Bloots |
…the process is nearly complete, which is quicker then expected and potentially means that a “compromise” has been reached.
I expect that ultimately the PL won’t want to lose them for financial reasons and that the EFL won’t want to take them for competitive reasons.
I can see an outcome where they get a big points deduction, 60-100, but split over a number of years, 2-4.
That way they’ll stay in the PL but struggle to get into the CL and maybe Europe entirely.
They’ll also get a big fine, obviously, some sort of transfer ban and probably sanctions against directors.
Let’s face it though, whatever they get fans from all sides will moan. |
Unless they are smashed and sent out of the league it won’t be enough. |  |
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| Rumour is that… on 14:26 - Oct 19 with 709 views | Vic |
| Rumour is that… on 12:47 - Oct 19 by Bloots |
…the process is nearly complete, which is quicker then expected and potentially means that a “compromise” has been reached.
I expect that ultimately the PL won’t want to lose them for financial reasons and that the EFL won’t want to take them for competitive reasons.
I can see an outcome where they get a big points deduction, 60-100, but split over a number of years, 2-4.
That way they’ll stay in the PL but struggle to get into the CL and maybe Europe entirely.
They’ll also get a big fine, obviously, some sort of transfer ban and probably sanctions against directors.
Let’s face it though, whatever they get fans from all sides will moan. |
I've never wished you to be wrong before Bloots - but there's a first time for everything. That first is now! |  |
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| Man City punishment on 14:43 - Oct 19 with 669 views | football |
Whilst I think they should be relegated, I genuinely dont think it will happen. They will find a way to navigate round it or get a punishment that is worthless. It stinks but it's City and the PL want them for the financial return | | | |
| Don't get me wrong.... on 14:45 - Oct 19 with 664 views | Bloots |
| Rumour is that… on 14:26 - Oct 19 by Vic |
I've never wished you to be wrong before Bloots - but there's a first time for everything. That first is now! |
....I'm not saying that's what I want to happen, just what I can see happening.
I think the problem is that we, as a lower end PL/Championship club, want them out of the league as quickly as possible for our own reasons, but the powers that be will see it from a different perspective.
Every possible outcome has it's negatives though. Imagine if they do get relegated to the 2nd Division, or even lower. They'll probably play their reserves in the league matches, win at a canter and then play the first team in Cup matches.
The first non-league team to do the cup double? The first 2nd division team to win a European trophy?
It's all a load of crap whatever the outcome. | |
| Keaton, Kint, McManus, Fenster and Hockney. |
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| Man City punishment on 14:52 - Oct 19 with 610 views | WeWereZombies |
| Man City punishment on 12:59 - Oct 18 by BrayBlue |
Man City should be forced to pay back all 714pts they accrued between 2008-18, the period when they were guilty of cheating - and here’s how: next season they start on - 714pts. For the sake of easy maths, let’s say they earn 100pts, that would see them relegated on -614pts.
Here’s the crucial bit: the points deduction rolls over! So whenever they return to the PL they would start on -614pts, and so on until all 714pts have been repaid. It would take City a decade or so to wipe the slate clean, roughly the same amount of time they were cheating - seems fair to me?
Cheers,
JK [Post edited 18 Oct 13:01]
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Good idea but would a squad stick with a promoted Manchester City knowing that they were in for relegation no matter what happened ? Maybe they would if the squad were the best second tier payers available and the season after they would walk promotion even if it was same, same for sixteen or so seasons. Maybe the very good second tier but floundering in the Premier League players would all depart for the most likely second tier teams to gain promotion in the years that Manchester City return and then get relegated, maybe Manchester City would have to rely on ageing Premier League players who couldn't get a contract elsewhere (a team of Kalvin Phillips and Kieran Trippier type players, Ben Godfrey even ?) Maybe Keiran McKenna would love yo manage a Manchester City team of crocks who knew they were going to get relegated every Premier League season ?
Maybe I don't really wanna know... |  |
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| Man City punishment on 15:24 - Oct 19 with 564 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Man City punishment on 12:38 - Oct 19 by _CliveBaker_ |
No different to the Championship losing a promotion spot is it? Whatever league they're in, they'll be promoted every season until they're back in the premier league. |
That's why this is a good idea:
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| Don't get me wrong.... on 15:37 - Oct 19 with 536 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Don't get me wrong.... on 14:45 - Oct 19 by Bloots |
....I'm not saying that's what I want to happen, just what I can see happening.
I think the problem is that we, as a lower end PL/Championship club, want them out of the league as quickly as possible for our own reasons, but the powers that be will see it from a different perspective.
Every possible outcome has it's negatives though. Imagine if they do get relegated to the 2nd Division, or even lower. They'll probably play their reserves in the league matches, win at a canter and then play the first team in Cup matches.
The first non-league team to do the cup double? The first 2nd division team to win a European trophy?
It's all a load of crap whatever the outcome. |
UEFA will ban them from Europe for x years, once Premier League punish them, assuming the appeal fails | |
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