| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 12:52 - May 5 with 4130 views | itfcjoe |
If you say something enough it seems to become accepted as the truth |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 12:53 - May 5 with 4123 views | StokieBlue |
For my own confirmation, the Italian numbers don't include suspected deaths or care home deaths right?
Still awful whatever way you look at it and no real end in sight at the moment.
I saw the US is predicting a doubling of their deaths per day in June?
SB |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 12:57 - May 5 with 4090 views | BloomBlue |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 12:53 - May 5 by StokieBlue |
For my own confirmation, the Italian numbers don't include suspected deaths or care home deaths right?
Still awful whatever way you look at it and no real end in sight at the moment.
I saw the US is predicting a doubling of their deaths per day in June?
SB |
I thought it was Spain which don't include deaths in care homes or the community yet.
But that report/link does say Italy isn't including suspected deaths just cases where CV is the confirmed cause of death |  | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:04 - May 5 with 4081 views | Guthrum |
Until we can look at more concrete, directly comparable figures, like excess death rates, we won't really know how our performance relates to other countries'. Moreover, other factors may be in play - concentration of outbreak, sources of infection, the varying lethality of different strains of the virus in different places.
It's a bit harsh to assert criminal negligence when all the evidence is not yet available. That may come later. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:07 - May 5 with 4058 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 12:53 - May 5 by StokieBlue |
For my own confirmation, the Italian numbers don't include suspected deaths or care home deaths right?
Still awful whatever way you look at it and no real end in sight at the moment.
I saw the US is predicting a doubling of their deaths per day in June?
SB |
Yes, USA expects to see 200,000 cases a day and 3,000 deaths a day as a minimum.
Oh and Fauci told the media Trump was wrong on his conspiracy on the Wuhan lab. |  | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:08 - May 5 with 4043 views | monytowbray |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:04 - May 5 by Guthrum |
Until we can look at more concrete, directly comparable figures, like excess death rates, we won't really know how our performance relates to other countries'. Moreover, other factors may be in play - concentration of outbreak, sources of infection, the varying lethality of different strains of the virus in different places.
It's a bit harsh to assert criminal negligence when all the evidence is not yet available. That may come later. |
Late lockdown = More deaths.
I don't think that seems like un unlogical conclusion right now. 8 weeks ago it was fairly obvious how this would pan out, bar the fact it's actually worse than expected. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:09 - May 5 with 4026 views | footers |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:07 - May 5 by ElderGrizzly |
Yes, USA expects to see 200,000 cases a day and 3,000 deaths a day as a minimum.
Oh and Fauci told the media Trump was wrong on his conspiracy on the Wuhan lab. |
On your second point, it's obviously already out there though and should have legs till November. Well played, Donald. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:11 - May 5 with 4015 views | gordon |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:08 - May 5 by monytowbray |
Late lockdown = More deaths.
I don't think that seems like un unlogical conclusion right now. 8 weeks ago it was fairly obvious how this would pan out, bar the fact it's actually worse than expected. |
There isn't be any doubt that the late lockdown caused more deaths and greater hit to the economy (because it meant we need a longer lockdown to get cases down to a manageable level).
It will ultimately come down to the question of whether as a society we really care about having decent, honest, competent government. |  | | |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:27 - May 5 with 3956 views | StokieBlue |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:09 - May 5 by footers |
On your second point, it's obviously already out there though and should have legs till November. Well played, Donald. |
It was originally based on an article citing diplomatic cables from 2018 which highlighted poor practices in the lab. The cables actually state there is a chance of a SARS type outbreak from the lab.
None of that means it happened of course but it's just more ammunition to keep it ticking along as you say.
SB | |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:30 - May 5 with 3938 views | GaryCooper |
Yet the masses still clap. |  | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:38 - May 5 with 3908 views | Mullet |
I think we will see a reckoning but there needs to be careful scrutiny and criticism. I think Starmer might come into his own here with that sort of approach.
You'll never shake the die hards who lap up every press utterance, but the support base will crumble away (or unfortunately be killed off) if the indications of how badly we've done are true.
I don't think we can call him criminally negligent despite the evidence causing suspicions yet, but we may well see a long and frustrating enquiry in a few years. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:44 - May 5 with 3873 views | GaryCooper |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:38 - May 5 by Mullet |
I think we will see a reckoning but there needs to be careful scrutiny and criticism. I think Starmer might come into his own here with that sort of approach.
You'll never shake the die hards who lap up every press utterance, but the support base will crumble away (or unfortunately be killed off) if the indications of how badly we've done are true.
I don't think we can call him criminally negligent despite the evidence causing suspicions yet, but we may well see a long and frustrating enquiry in a few years. |
The government and NHS policy of clearing the hospitals of all but critical care patients, sending the elderly back to their care homes without any Covid-19 testing is criminally negligent. All those deaths lay at the door of the NHS and government. | | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:46 - May 5 with 3851 views | footers |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:27 - May 5 by StokieBlue |
It was originally based on an article citing diplomatic cables from 2018 which highlighted poor practices in the lab. The cables actually state there is a chance of a SARS type outbreak from the lab.
None of that means it happened of course but it's just more ammunition to keep it ticking along as you say.
SB |
Hadn't seen that actually. Bit worrying there's more meat on the bone in that case!
I just want them to hurry up with the vaccine so I can get microchipped and be harvested for organs, tbh. | |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:49 - May 5 with 3836 views | gordon |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:38 - May 5 by Mullet |
I think we will see a reckoning but there needs to be careful scrutiny and criticism. I think Starmer might come into his own here with that sort of approach.
You'll never shake the die hards who lap up every press utterance, but the support base will crumble away (or unfortunately be killed off) if the indications of how badly we've done are true.
I don't think we can call him criminally negligent despite the evidence causing suspicions yet, but we may well see a long and frustrating enquiry in a few years. |
I think expectations have been eroded to the extent that people aren't going to be that bothered one way or another, and of course people will try as best they can to find ways to justify their decision to vote conservative at the recent election. | | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:49 - May 5 with 3840 views | Churchman |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 12:53 - May 5 by StokieBlue |
For my own confirmation, the Italian numbers don't include suspected deaths or care home deaths right?
Still awful whatever way you look at it and no real end in sight at the moment.
I saw the US is predicting a doubling of their deaths per day in June?
SB |
Spain’s don’t either. The US only counts deaths if the direct cause is Coronavirus, as opposed to the UK where it’s included in the stats if it appears on the death certificate or is suspected. In South America, there is such a stigma attached to C-19, that people who die from it are just not counted.
However, regardless of all that, the numbers in the UK are a disgrace. This country had notice of what was coming, unlike Italy, and basically did nothing. Everything from timing of lockdown (not the gift of hindsight - just a bad decision. See Portugal or NZ for the correct decision), lack of testing (a country this size should have had far better than zero capacity), PPE - any single death caused by a staff member having inadequate protection is totally unacceptable let alone the numbers that have clearly died. Confusion from ‘herd immunity’ nonsense to the idiocy of not testing people when they enter this country.
I would add propping up a couple of scientists to take the flak isn’t very subtle either. If the clowns think they will get away with that when they’re held to account, they can think again. [Post edited 5 May 2020 13:53]
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:50 - May 5 with 3840 views | factual_blue |
RULE BRITANNIA!!!
Britain leads again. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:03 - May 5 with 3776 views | Radlett_blue |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:11 - May 5 by gordon |
There isn't be any doubt that the late lockdown caused more deaths and greater hit to the economy (because it meant we need a longer lockdown to get cases down to a manageable level).
It will ultimately come down to the question of whether as a society we really care about having decent, honest, competent government. |
We will really see the impact of the timing & the severity of the lockdown once we actually try to move out of it. While the government probably should have acted more promptly, I think ultimately this isn't going to make a huge difference to the overall death toll. The fewer people who have been infected,, the more will be infected as we move out of lockdown. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:05 - May 5 with 3762 views | gordon |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:03 - May 5 by Radlett_blue |
We will really see the impact of the timing & the severity of the lockdown once we actually try to move out of it. While the government probably should have acted more promptly, I think ultimately this isn't going to make a huge difference to the overall death toll. The fewer people who have been infected,, the more will be infected as we move out of lockdown. |
The people running the show have abandoned their earlier assumption that it was inevitable that everyone would get the virus, btw. | | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:08 - May 5 with 3750 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:38 - May 5 by Mullet |
I think we will see a reckoning but there needs to be careful scrutiny and criticism. I think Starmer might come into his own here with that sort of approach.
You'll never shake the die hards who lap up every press utterance, but the support base will crumble away (or unfortunately be killed off) if the indications of how badly we've done are true.
I don't think we can call him criminally negligent despite the evidence causing suspicions yet, but we may well see a long and frustrating enquiry in a few years. |
Wishful thinking Sir. 51% in the polls and rising. |  |
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| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:10 - May 5 with 3736 views | EdwardStone |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:38 - May 5 by Mullet |
I think we will see a reckoning but there needs to be careful scrutiny and criticism. I think Starmer might come into his own here with that sort of approach.
You'll never shake the die hards who lap up every press utterance, but the support base will crumble away (or unfortunately be killed off) if the indications of how badly we've done are true.
I don't think we can call him criminally negligent despite the evidence causing suspicions yet, but we may well see a long and frustrating enquiry in a few years. |
Agree that any Inquiry will only ever be an exercise in bullsh*t and arse-covering
A bit like the investigation into the death of Dr David Kelly
Six knife wounds in his back and the verdict was
"The worst case of suicide this Court has seen"
* I paraphrase loosely for dramatic effect * |  | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:11 - May 5 with 3731 views | GaryCooper |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:08 - May 5 by The_Last_Baron |
Wishful thinking Sir. 51% in the polls and rising. |
Keep clapping. | | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:12 - May 5 with 3721 views | NotSure |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:50 - May 5 by factual_blue |
RULE BRITANNIA!!!
Britain leads again. |
Well we certainly lead at correctly reporting our Covid-19 deaths.
China, Iran, Russia, India, the whole of Africa ... absolutely hopeless! |  | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:14 - May 5 with 3705 views | BloomBlue |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:38 - May 5 by Mullet |
I think we will see a reckoning but there needs to be careful scrutiny and criticism. I think Starmer might come into his own here with that sort of approach.
You'll never shake the die hards who lap up every press utterance, but the support base will crumble away (or unfortunately be killed off) if the indications of how badly we've done are true.
I don't think we can call him criminally negligent despite the evidence causing suspicions yet, but we may well see a long and frustrating enquiry in a few years. |
The trouble with public inquires 1) never lead to any accountability or consequences and 2) they takes years to finish, what was the Iraq war inquiry 13 years after the event? | | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:14 - May 5 with 3701 views | gordon |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:08 - May 5 by The_Last_Baron |
Wishful thinking Sir. 51% in the polls and rising. |
I don't think anyone would dream of arguing that there aren't a lot of gullible people in this country! | | | |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 14:30 - May 5 with 3332 views | Pendejo |
| Highest death toll in Europe and rising on 13:30 - May 5 by GaryCooper |
Yet the masses still clap. |
The masses are clapping for those working to keep us in health aren't they? NHS, shop workers, bus drivers, bin men Etc Etc Etc
Or is it wrong to give thanks to them?
No-one is out there on a Thursday night clapping the PM or a Tory government. Are they? |  |
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