| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) 08:47 - Jul 30 with 3323 views | Keno |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 with 3033 views | PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |  | | |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 09:08 - Jul 30 with 2892 views | Keno |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |
They all came across really positively and honest, for instance Cook was open about cup games, which is fair enough
I particularly liked what Ashton said about the culture and discipline, getting the small right helps you get the big things right
It will also be interesting to see what they do with the ground and community | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 09:16 - Jul 30 with 2837 views | RegencyBlue |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |
It’s a pity there wasn’t a follow up question about the Cat 1 issue.
It’s always been my impression that there are advantages in being a Cat 1 Academy, perhaps not so much in how they are run but in where they are allowed to recruit from and the fact they seem to be able ‘poach’ kids from Academies further down the chain.
It would be interesting to know if what was said last night is a true reflection of the clubs view or a tacit acknowledgment that very few Academies will be able to newly obtain Cat 1 status now given that the status seems to be jealously guarded? |  | | |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 09:31 - Jul 30 with 2734 views | BLUEBEAT |
Remembering that time when we missed out on Cat#1 status by something like 0.00024%
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 09:42 - Jul 30 with 2645 views | Guthrum |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |
I wonder if they simply don't see it as good value for money currently, especially given the seeming closed-shop aspect means we'd be unlikely to be allowed to attain that status until we're at least upper-echelon Champ, if not Prem.
I got the impression from what was said that they are aiming for a slimmed-down Academy ('quality not quantity', or words to that effect) and increasingly loaning out Youths to gain experience elsewhere. |  |
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| Key takeaway from me.... on 09:49 - Jul 30 with 2612 views | unstableblue |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |
.... I think we probably knew this.
But what struck me is that this isn't a 'sweat the asset' strategy from the investors to get to the eventual capital realisation goal at Premier promotion. i.e. sole focus on spend in playing staff, coaching team, let team performance drive the success criteria.
It did seem genuine that the owners/backers see that success on the pitch, and to get the club to a saleable asset, will involve a root and branch cultural and all club aspects improvement, including club-community linkages. And many other items such as ground and facilities, off field service, etc.
I kind of see that at Phoenix, but wondered with the big pension pot, there were different pressures. |  |
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| Key takeaway from me.... on 09:57 - Jul 30 with 2529 views | Guthrum |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 09:49 - Jul 30 by unstableblue |
.... I think we probably knew this.
But what struck me is that this isn't a 'sweat the asset' strategy from the investors to get to the eventual capital realisation goal at Premier promotion. i.e. sole focus on spend in playing staff, coaching team, let team performance drive the success criteria.
It did seem genuine that the owners/backers see that success on the pitch, and to get the club to a saleable asset, will involve a root and branch cultural and all club aspects improvement, including club-community linkages. And many other items such as ground and facilities, off field service, etc.
I kind of see that at Phoenix, but wondered with the big pension pot, there were different pressures. |
This is the difference that having people with football experience involved, right up to the investor level, makes. They have a realistic view of possiblilities and timescales. | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:09 - Jul 30 with 2436 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |
Perhaps we are moving more towards the Brentford way of doing things rather than relying on our youth system. Cat 1 definitely gives you better quality opposition to play against week in week out, but the model of developing youngish hungry players can be just as rewarding. You have to have of course top rate coaching staff and a damn good scouting system and contact network.
Time will tell..... |  | | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:14 - Jul 30 with 2391 views | Beattie78 |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 09:08 - Jul 30 by Keno |
They all came across really positively and honest, for instance Cook was open about cup games, which is fair enough
I particularly liked what Ashton said about the culture and discipline, getting the small right helps you get the big things right
It will also be interesting to see what they do with the ground and community |
What did Cook say about cup games? Is it more of the same? |  |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:20 - Jul 30 with 2355 views | nodge_blue |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:14 - Jul 30 by Beattie78 |
What did Cook say about cup games? Is it more of the same? |
I think from what Cook said we'll see a strong side for the FA cup but more of a mix for the others. |  |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:25 - Jul 30 with 2326 views | timothyeo |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:09 - Jul 30 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
Perhaps we are moving more towards the Brentford way of doing things rather than relying on our youth system. Cat 1 definitely gives you better quality opposition to play against week in week out, but the model of developing youngish hungry players can be just as rewarding. You have to have of course top rate coaching staff and a damn good scouting system and contact network.
Time will tell..... |
Said elsewhere, but I'm really disappointed about the lack of interest in Cat 1.
I also don't think doing what Brentford do is a smart move - it's worked for them so far but if it was as simple as that everyone would be doing it. | | | |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 10:47 - Jul 30 with 2228 views | unstableblue |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 09:57 - Jul 30 by Guthrum |
This is the difference that having people with football experience involved, right up to the investor level, makes. They have a realistic view of possiblilities and timescales. |
Absolutely - these guys you know that a football club is wide scale organisation not just the playing staff, if all parts of the organisation aren’t working the whole thing fails.
Marcus thought sticking a Keane or a McCarthy in position was the panacea for success, and hats off to Mick I think he expanded his remit to gluing the club together. BUT, as proven that simply does not work.
One key message from last night Guthrum that I hope fans heed, is that we may not hit the ground running and everyone needs to be patient, this level of player flux is unprecedented and it’s going to take a while to settle.
I have to say I am still concerned about the assistant manager situation, but in Cook we trust, and as long as I see the promised energy and effort, and the green shoots of an effective system, I’ll be backing the boys no matter the result. | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 11:02 - Jul 30 with 2086 views | mylittletown |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:25 - Jul 30 by timothyeo |
Said elsewhere, but I'm really disappointed about the lack of interest in Cat 1.
I also don't think doing what Brentford do is a smart move - it's worked for them so far but if it was as simple as that everyone would be doing it. |
The Brentford thing is a variation of the 'Moneyball' approach. It requires very intelligent, completely detached and logical application.
It doesn't suit the built in prejudices of 'football people', but it clearly works if applied with precision.
Brentford haven't just got back into the top division for the first time since 1947, they have also built a new ground and, although Matthew Benham has invested a fair amount, it has been run as a proper business. |  | | |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:10 - Jul 30 with 2046 views | Guthrum |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 10:47 - Jul 30 by unstableblue |
Absolutely - these guys you know that a football club is wide scale organisation not just the playing staff, if all parts of the organisation aren’t working the whole thing fails.
Marcus thought sticking a Keane or a McCarthy in position was the panacea for success, and hats off to Mick I think he expanded his remit to gluing the club together. BUT, as proven that simply does not work.
One key message from last night Guthrum that I hope fans heed, is that we may not hit the ground running and everyone needs to be patient, this level of player flux is unprecedented and it’s going to take a while to settle.
I have to say I am still concerned about the assistant manager situation, but in Cook we trust, and as long as I see the promised energy and effort, and the green shoots of an effective system, I’ll be backing the boys no matter the result. |
What does the Assistant Manager do, that a group of coaches under the Manager cannot? Is it actually a necessary position, or just another organisational layer?
Always assuming that the Manager will listen to ideas and criticisms from his staff - but then an Assistant might be a yes-man also. Or, worse, a shield for his boss. | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 11:21 - Jul 30 with 1975 views | Guthrum |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:25 - Jul 30 by timothyeo |
Said elsewhere, but I'm really disappointed about the lack of interest in Cat 1.
I also don't think doing what Brentford do is a smart move - it's worked for them so far but if it was as simple as that everyone would be doing it. |
Not every club is in the position to harvest the discarded Youths of an entire major city's worth of big teams. Brentford is practically on the doorstep for those who don't make it at Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, etc.
There's also a difference between aiming for a leaner, more efficient Academy and the Brentford model of discarding the younger agegroups to become simply a finishing school for footballers. | |
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| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:35 - Jul 30 with 1901 views | mylittletown |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:10 - Jul 30 by Guthrum |
What does the Assistant Manager do, that a group of coaches under the Manager cannot? Is it actually a necessary position, or just another organisational layer?
Always assuming that the Manager will listen to ideas and criticisms from his staff - but then an Assistant might be a yes-man also. Or, worse, a shield for his boss. |
Act as a sounding board. Provide argument without fear of being sacked for doing so. Sit slightly further away and take a wider view. Intervene in personality battles etc etc.
I always thought that a key factor in our relegation from the Premiership was Dale Roberts' tragic illness. George lost his moderating influence and calm review. | | | |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:41 - Jul 30 with 1876 views | unstableblue |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:10 - Jul 30 by Guthrum |
What does the Assistant Manager do, that a group of coaches under the Manager cannot? Is it actually a necessary position, or just another organisational layer?
Always assuming that the Manager will listen to ideas and criticisms from his staff - but then an Assistant might be a yes-man also. Or, worse, a shield for his boss. |
I think where my concern was in this area - that perhaps his previous Assistant Manager was the foil to his tactical and system decisions and planning. So Cook man motivation bulk of selection and system, and Richardson provided further input to team shape, tactics etc. I was pleased and 'comforted' (there there) by Cook's messaging on it last night.
I've probably completely made up Richardson role. But I still have a niggle that Cook as his coaching team just didn't get a right formula quickly at the end of last season. But I think it was just a lost cause all round.
Of note Clough and Taylor was the ultimate manager and assistant manager duo.. Taylor was the talent spotter and the mechanics of the team. Clough the charisma the motivator.
Am sure Cook will get the chemistry right... albeit Jeffers and Roberts remain green | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 11:53 - Jul 30 with 1801 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 10:25 - Jul 30 by timothyeo |
Said elsewhere, but I'm really disappointed about the lack of interest in Cat 1.
I also don't think doing what Brentford do is a smart move - it's worked for them so far but if it was as simple as that everyone would be doing it. |
Category 1 is not much use whilst we are a lower league club. We need to be much higher up the food chain for it to make any sense | |
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| Key takeaway from me.... on 14:39 - Jul 30 with 1602 views | Guthrum |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:41 - Jul 30 by unstableblue |
I think where my concern was in this area - that perhaps his previous Assistant Manager was the foil to his tactical and system decisions and planning. So Cook man motivation bulk of selection and system, and Richardson provided further input to team shape, tactics etc. I was pleased and 'comforted' (there there) by Cook's messaging on it last night.
I've probably completely made up Richardson role. But I still have a niggle that Cook as his coaching team just didn't get a right formula quickly at the end of last season. But I think it was just a lost cause all round.
Of note Clough and Taylor was the ultimate manager and assistant manager duo.. Taylor was the talent spotter and the mechanics of the team. Clough the charisma the motivator.
Am sure Cook will get the chemistry right... albeit Jeffers and Roberts remain green |
Clough and Taylor was a different era. The Manager's remit was wider in terms of running more of the admin side of the club and staffs were a lot smaller. Would a raft of more specialist coaches not be as effective for tactical (and player) development as a single individual? Several brains applied to the task, rather than just two? | |
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| Key takeaway from me.... on 14:43 - Jul 30 with 1581 views | Guthrum |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 11:35 - Jul 30 by mylittletown |
Act as a sounding board. Provide argument without fear of being sacked for doing so. Sit slightly further away and take a wider view. Intervene in personality battles etc etc.
I always thought that a key factor in our relegation from the Premiership was Dale Roberts' tragic illness. George lost his moderating influence and calm review. |
Why would a single Assistant be more fearless than a group of coaches? Would they not be able to provide more support for the Manager, rather than less?
As for personality battles, we now have a senior football-experienced man to arbitrate in the case of major disputes (two if you count the Chairman as well). | |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 14:50 - Jul 30 with 1548 views | itfcjoe |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 08:58 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
A positive thing that those at the top of the club are holding things like this and it was clear from Mark Ashton's comment about there being a distance between the club and fans that they're aware there is work to do in that area, even if the takeover itself and events since then have made the overall mood far more positive.
Didn't think there was an awful lot that was new - I couldn't find a really newsy line from it - was mainly restating things from the initial press conference and things we've heard since then, but I think that's inevitable to some extent with nothing having happened on the pitch up to now. Still very early days.
Of the things that were new, like others I was surprised by the negative view of moving to cat one. However, some of what was said, about there not being an awful lot different other than the games programme, I've heard before from people in the academy, although at the same time they've stressed the importance of the games programme. |
Must have been a good journo that asked the only newsworthy question  |  |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 14:56 - Jul 30 with 1504 views | Dubtractor |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 14:50 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
Must have been a good journo that asked the only newsworthy question |
What are your thoughts on the new regime now Joe? With things seemingly starting to take shape?
You've taken a few pelters for daring to question things occasionally since Cook came in, but I'm sensing that you're warming to things. |  |
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| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 14:58 - Jul 30 with 1489 views | itfcjoe |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 09:16 - Jul 30 by RegencyBlue |
It’s a pity there wasn’t a follow up question about the Cat 1 issue.
It’s always been my impression that there are advantages in being a Cat 1 Academy, perhaps not so much in how they are run but in where they are allowed to recruit from and the fact they seem to be able ‘poach’ kids from Academies further down the chain.
It would be interesting to know if what was said last night is a true reflection of the clubs view or a tacit acknowledgment that very few Academies will be able to newly obtain Cat 1 status now given that the status seems to be jealously guarded? |
Category 1 clubs lose players frequently to other Cat 1 ones, being cat1 isn't a silver bullet and we dont lost players by virtue of being Cat 2.
More and more clubs have gone Cat 1 this season, our games programme has really suffered - we've lost birmingham and Forest this year to Cat 1 and there are now 28 teams at Cat 1 level and were just 16 teams at Cat 2 level.
I think peterborough have got Cat 2 status now, and Luton were aiming for it - if they both haven't got it we'll likely end up in the Northern League as well.
Cat 2 falls further and further behind Cat 1 each year, whilst i don't disagree that being 1 or 2 is the be all and end all - attracting and retaining kids to a cat 2 academy gets harder and harder. Our games programme this year doesn't get the pulses racing and lacks quality. | |
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| Agreed, that question about.... on 14:59 - Jul 30 with 1476 views | Bloots |
| Morning Phil - what did you make of Fan Forums thing? (n/t) on 14:50 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
Must have been a good journo that asked the only newsworthy question |
...the women's team was incredibly insightful. |  |
| TWTD Leadership Group/Elite Level Supporter/Anti-Bullying Crusader |
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| Key takeaway from me.... on 15:00 - Jul 30 with 1474 views | Ryorry |
| Key takeaway from me.... on 10:47 - Jul 30 by unstableblue |
Absolutely - these guys you know that a football club is wide scale organisation not just the playing staff, if all parts of the organisation aren’t working the whole thing fails.
Marcus thought sticking a Keane or a McCarthy in position was the panacea for success, and hats off to Mick I think he expanded his remit to gluing the club together. BUT, as proven that simply does not work.
One key message from last night Guthrum that I hope fans heed, is that we may not hit the ground running and everyone needs to be patient, this level of player flux is unprecedented and it’s going to take a while to settle.
I have to say I am still concerned about the assistant manager situation, but in Cook we trust, and as long as I see the promised energy and effort, and the green shoots of an effective system, I’ll be backing the boys no matter the result. |
What's coming through, not just from last night but from various comments by PC & players recently, really does remind me of what just about every manager we've had during the Evans era hinted at from time to time - there was/were some things that were just fundamentally lacking & not right behind the scenes. |  |
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