| Civil servants take orders apparently 20:38 - Apr 16 with 2338 views | ElderGrizzly |
Tosser
Of course, we don’t take “orders” to start with. And if we believe the action to be illegal we can refuse. As the Home Office are doing so. |  | | |  |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 20:41 - Apr 16 with 2284 views | footers |
That's weird. I don't remember Dominic Cummings or Carrie Symonds being elected MPs. |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 20:45 - Apr 16 with 2271 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
People have been found guilty of war crimes for simply carrying out political orders haven't they?
EDIT: and well done anyone for refusing to carry out an evil immoral act whether it is illegal or not. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 20:46]
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:05 - Apr 16 with 2219 views | factual_blue |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 20:45 - Apr 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
People have been found guilty of war crimes for simply carrying out political orders haven't they?
EDIT: and well done anyone for refusing to carry out an evil immoral act whether it is illegal or not. [Post edited 16 Apr 2022 20:46]
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A Minister who has had to personally sign off a policy like this because it's the only way the Civil Servants will carry out has lost (a) the argument, and (b) the support and respect of their Civil Servants.
Although I doubt preety has ever had the latter. |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:32 - Apr 16 with 2158 views | pointofblue |
From the Guardian article, the general secretary of the FDA seems to think that civil servants may have to ask for a transfer or leave entirely if they do not want to implement the (horrific, mindless) policy:
"Dave Penman, the general secretary of the FDA trade union, warned officials could demand a transfer from the Home Office or leave the civil service entirely rather than deliver the policy.
He said: “It’s a divisive policy but civil servants know that their job is to serve the government of the day. On the most divisive policies, civil servants’ choice is to implement them or leave. That could mean elsewhere in the department, another department or leaving the civil service.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/16/priti-patel-home-office-mutiny- |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:37 - Apr 16 with 2124 views | Churchman |
It is not the job of civil servants to make or decide policy and they don’t. They never presumed to do so. They are there to scope, cost, question, challenge and enact government policy ideas and commitments. It’s what they do and all they do.
The problem is that in 2010 Francis Maud walked in to Cabinet Office, looked around the room and said ‘I see before me dead wood and it’s my job to get rid of it’. That sums up their view of the CS. They neither understood or respected what government departments do. Worse, they didn’t want to know. From prison officers to policemen, from customs rummage crews to tax inspectors to people in the Treasury/HMRC trying to figure out how to put their nonsense into practice for a fraction of the cost PwC would charge, they haven’t the faintest idea.
The trouble is that other than being personally insulting and disrespectful to people who told them what they didn’t want to hear (fact), they are a sea of ignorance, disrespect, arrogance and bigotry.
This is why the latest mad policy is about the level my mate’s dog would cook up and she eats horse cr&p when taken for a walk. The politicians will blame the civil service when it blows up in their faces, but they long since stopped listening and the blame lies entirely with them.
I gather Duncan-Smith was banging on about Civil Servants being in the office today. The sorry, ignorant bonehead had in opposition a private office twice the size of the prime minister because he refused a mobile, to use a computer, email. Everything had to be typed on HoC headed paper, both ways. And he has the brass neck to say how and where people should work when it should be all about outputs, what people actually do. He’s a complete tool, but he’s not alone.
Roll on two years time when this disgusting shower are thrown out.
My rant for the day is done. |  | | |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:43 - Apr 16 with 2106 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:37 - Apr 16 by Churchman |
It is not the job of civil servants to make or decide policy and they don’t. They never presumed to do so. They are there to scope, cost, question, challenge and enact government policy ideas and commitments. It’s what they do and all they do.
The problem is that in 2010 Francis Maud walked in to Cabinet Office, looked around the room and said ‘I see before me dead wood and it’s my job to get rid of it’. That sums up their view of the CS. They neither understood or respected what government departments do. Worse, they didn’t want to know. From prison officers to policemen, from customs rummage crews to tax inspectors to people in the Treasury/HMRC trying to figure out how to put their nonsense into practice for a fraction of the cost PwC would charge, they haven’t the faintest idea.
The trouble is that other than being personally insulting and disrespectful to people who told them what they didn’t want to hear (fact), they are a sea of ignorance, disrespect, arrogance and bigotry.
This is why the latest mad policy is about the level my mate’s dog would cook up and she eats horse cr&p when taken for a walk. The politicians will blame the civil service when it blows up in their faces, but they long since stopped listening and the blame lies entirely with them.
I gather Duncan-Smith was banging on about Civil Servants being in the office today. The sorry, ignorant bonehead had in opposition a private office twice the size of the prime minister because he refused a mobile, to use a computer, email. Everything had to be typed on HoC headed paper, both ways. And he has the brass neck to say how and where people should work when it should be all about outputs, what people actually do. He’s a complete tool, but he’s not alone.
Roll on two years time when this disgusting shower are thrown out.
My rant for the day is done. |
Yes, iDS and Steve Baker were commenting on WfH again today.
They have overseen policies where desk ratios have been severely increased with every office move or refurb, so there are literally not enough desks for everyone to be in.
They’ve also trotted out the trope that WFH is less effective according to “most companies) - it isn’t.
And then one of them said if Doctors and Nurses need to be in hospital to work, why shouldn’t civil servants. It’s pathetic childish and playing to the galleries nonsense. | | | |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:46 - Apr 16 with 2087 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:32 - Apr 16 by pointofblue |
From the Guardian article, the general secretary of the FDA seems to think that civil servants may have to ask for a transfer or leave entirely if they do not want to implement the (horrific, mindless) policy:
"Dave Penman, the general secretary of the FDA trade union, warned officials could demand a transfer from the Home Office or leave the civil service entirely rather than deliver the policy.
He said: “It’s a divisive policy but civil servants know that their job is to serve the government of the day. On the most divisive policies, civil servants’ choice is to implement them or leave. That could mean elsewhere in the department, another department or leaving the civil service.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/16/priti-patel-home-office-mutiny- |
Not quite the full picture.
If there is a belief it is illegal, they can ‘refuse’ to implement. Yes we ‘serve’, but not like sheep. It will be a real test of the protections in place. | | | |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 00:42 - Apr 17 with 1918 views | BlueBadger |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:46 - Apr 16 by ElderGrizzly |
Not quite the full picture.
If there is a belief it is illegal, they can ‘refuse’ to implement. Yes we ‘serve’, but not like sheep. It will be a real test of the protections in place. |
The UN's refugee agency have declared it to be against international law.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61122241 |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 09:06 - Apr 17 with 1754 views | Plums |
It’s incredible to think it got so far down the line. It’s almost as if some right wing loon came up with the idea and Patel just got on a plane to Rwanda to seal the deal. It can’t have happened that way surely…? |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 09:27 - Apr 17 with 1725 views | NthQldITFC |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:37 - Apr 16 by Churchman |
It is not the job of civil servants to make or decide policy and they don’t. They never presumed to do so. They are there to scope, cost, question, challenge and enact government policy ideas and commitments. It’s what they do and all they do.
The problem is that in 2010 Francis Maud walked in to Cabinet Office, looked around the room and said ‘I see before me dead wood and it’s my job to get rid of it’. That sums up their view of the CS. They neither understood or respected what government departments do. Worse, they didn’t want to know. From prison officers to policemen, from customs rummage crews to tax inspectors to people in the Treasury/HMRC trying to figure out how to put their nonsense into practice for a fraction of the cost PwC would charge, they haven’t the faintest idea.
The trouble is that other than being personally insulting and disrespectful to people who told them what they didn’t want to hear (fact), they are a sea of ignorance, disrespect, arrogance and bigotry.
This is why the latest mad policy is about the level my mate’s dog would cook up and she eats horse cr&p when taken for a walk. The politicians will blame the civil service when it blows up in their faces, but they long since stopped listening and the blame lies entirely with them.
I gather Duncan-Smith was banging on about Civil Servants being in the office today. The sorry, ignorant bonehead had in opposition a private office twice the size of the prime minister because he refused a mobile, to use a computer, email. Everything had to be typed on HoC headed paper, both ways. And he has the brass neck to say how and where people should work when it should be all about outputs, what people actually do. He’s a complete tool, but he’s not alone.
Roll on two years time when this disgusting shower are thrown out.
My rant for the day is done. |
Irritable Duncan Smith was something of a sign of things to come really, wasn't he, back in the early part of this millennium? Very much one of the key teeth in the ratcheting down of political intellect and gravitas, yet strangely toothless in everything he does.
Bloated, constipated and has turned into what seems to be a long-term problem. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 10:05 - Apr 17 with 1665 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 09:27 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
Irritable Duncan Smith was something of a sign of things to come really, wasn't he, back in the early part of this millennium? Very much one of the key teeth in the ratcheting down of political intellect and gravitas, yet strangely toothless in everything he does.
Bloated, constipated and has turned into what seems to be a long-term problem. |
And that's the trouble with constipation - in the longer term you end up being posioned. |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:33 - Apr 17 with 1596 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 10:05 - Apr 17 by You_Bloo_Right |
And that's the trouble with constipation - in the longer term you end up being posioned. |
I’m not feeling too comfortable with this analogy, as it seems wholly unfair to compacted turds! |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:35 - Apr 17 with 1582 views | chicoazul |
Isn’t it the literal job of the civil service to carry out the work they’re given by our elected representatives. |  |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:49 - Apr 17 with 1575 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:35 - Apr 17 by chicoazul |
Isn’t it the literal job of the civil service to carry out the work they’re given by our elected representatives. |
And you’ve got at least 2 people on here who are/were Civil Servants telling us where the limits of that expectation lie. | |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:58 - Apr 17 with 1556 views | eireblue |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:49 - Apr 17 by Swansea_Blue |
And you’ve got at least 2 people on here who are/were Civil Servants telling us where the limits of that expectation lie. |
Civil servants are also somewhat meant to be careful on how tax payer money is spent.
Explicitly “carry out your fiduciary obligations responsibly”
That tweet, is an example of what probably lies behind some small state/privatisation decisions.
Does anyone really think, that people who are desperate to cross a channel risking death, and criminals that take peoples money, to get them to the channel, are going to stop, because of what may happen if the reach the U.K.? |  | | |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 12:56 - Apr 17 with 1509 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:33 - Apr 17 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m not feeling too comfortable with this analogy, as it seems wholly unfair to compacted turds! |
I saw Compacted Turds live once supporting The Fall. | |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 14:31 - Apr 17 with 1424 views | chicoazul |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 11:49 - Apr 17 by Swansea_Blue |
And you’ve got at least 2 people on here who are/were Civil Servants telling us where the limits of that expectation lie. |
Noted. But “thinks it may be illegal” is not “is illegal”. Legality is always tested by lawyers, it’s been a thriving cottage industry for human rights lawyers for many years now. | |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 19:35 - Apr 17 with 1301 views | BlueBadger |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 14:31 - Apr 17 by chicoazul |
Noted. But “thinks it may be illegal” is not “is illegal”. Legality is always tested by lawyers, it’s been a thriving cottage industry for human rights lawyers for many years now. |
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| Civil servants take orders apparently on 21:26 - Apr 17 with 1192 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 14:31 - Apr 17 by chicoazul |
Noted. But “thinks it may be illegal” is not “is illegal”. Legality is always tested by lawyers, it’s been a thriving cottage industry for human rights lawyers for many years now. |
Are you sure that they are not just ' breaking the rules '? |  | | |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 22:12 - Apr 17 with 1133 views | Churchman |
| Civil servants take orders apparently on 09:27 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
Irritable Duncan Smith was something of a sign of things to come really, wasn't he, back in the early part of this millennium? Very much one of the key teeth in the ratcheting down of political intellect and gravitas, yet strangely toothless in everything he does.
Bloated, constipated and has turned into what seems to be a long-term problem. |
He certainly was and is. IDS is an utterly stupid man. A walking talking arrogant, witless, useless imbecile with a sense of self importance of staggering proportions. His staff, at the time my lot had dealings with him (endless parliamentary questions about the same thing, just reworded, that have to be answered in a particular way and timescale - ElderG will know what I’m on about), loathed him.
The trouble is, that despite being a bonehead, there are worse than him! God, I’m glad I’m no longer working anywhere near them. | | | |
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