| Janoi Donacien 09:34 - Oct 31 with 3821 views | wiganblue |
Just wanted to see if anyone has the same opinion as me but do you think Janoi is out of form? In the last few games I have watched him in he seems to get caught out of position often and losing the ball too easily.
I almost question that because of his link up play with Burns he has almost become un-droppable but does anyone else think maybe he should be rested? I think it helped George and wonder if it would be the same for Janoi. [Post edited 31 Oct 2022 16:14]
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| He's being asked to play..... on 09:41 - Oct 31 with 3752 views | Bloots |
....a lot more like an orthodox right back of late, which is always going to leave him more exposed.
His run of really good form came when Burns was playing a traditional wing back role and taking up a degree of the defensive work, also he was literally playing a lot closer to him in that formation allowing better link up.
Personally I think we need to get back to the "3 at the back when attacking, 5 when defending" style that worked so well earlier in the season.
JD looks much more comfortable in a 3 than a 4. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 09:42 - Oct 31 with 3748 views | Dubtractor |
Undoubtedly he's not at the same level he was a few weeks ago. I suspect he just needs a rest, October has been relentless and he's played in a lot of it. |  |
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| He's being asked to play..... on 09:44 - Oct 31 with 3724 views | GlasgowBlue |
| He's being asked to play..... on 09:41 - Oct 31 by Bloots |
....a lot more like an orthodox right back of late, which is always going to leave him more exposed.
His run of really good form came when Burns was playing a traditional wing back role and taking up a degree of the defensive work, also he was literally playing a lot closer to him in that formation allowing better link up.
Personally I think we need to get back to the "3 at the back when attacking, 5 when defending" style that worked so well earlier in the season.
JD looks much more comfortable in a 3 than a 4. |
Burns form was also better when he was being played as a wing back. He had far more space to run into from a better starting position. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 09:51 - Oct 31 with 3677 views | BondiBlue |
I know what you mean but i wouldn't drop him. He's very good one v one (he's quick, aggressive, a very good tackler and therefore very difficult to dribble past) and he's decent going forward. If you replaced him with, say, edmundson on the right of the 3 or KVY as an orthodox right back in a 4, neither have the full range of JD's abilities and would be exposed one way or another. KVY is not a great defender and edmundson i fear might get turned inside out, although he's quicker than he looks. JD may have the odd moment but he's never THAT bad that he's a liability.
Edit: Edmundson was so bad that he was a liability. Twice. [Post edited 31 Oct 2022 10:04]
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| Janoi Donacien on 09:56 - Oct 31 with 3656 views | DJR |
Maybe he's not been as good and comfortable as last season, but I still think his defending is pretty top drawer. It's also not clear to me who we'd replace him with. The only person as good from a defending point of view would be Edmundson but I am not sure whether he would suit that role. I might add that Keogh doesn't seem to have the pace for that role, and I don't think KVY is good enough defensively. I'm still very happy with JD, Woolfy and George, and I don't think any were at fault for the goals we conceded on Saturday. Two were down to players not picking up their man (Ball, Burns), one to Walton and (perhaps harshly) one to Davis.
I think the main problem we have when defending is that certain players seem to switch off, do not follow their man or do not react quickly enough when the ball drops. And I wouldn't say our defenders are the main culprits for that.
Having said all this, I could see Burgess (but not Keogh) featuring when he is fit. [Post edited 31 Oct 2022 9:57]
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| Janoi Donacien on 09:59 - Oct 31 with 3621 views | DJR |
| Janoi Donacien on 09:51 - Oct 31 by BondiBlue |
I know what you mean but i wouldn't drop him. He's very good one v one (he's quick, aggressive, a very good tackler and therefore very difficult to dribble past) and he's decent going forward. If you replaced him with, say, edmundson on the right of the 3 or KVY as an orthodox right back in a 4, neither have the full range of JD's abilities and would be exposed one way or another. KVY is not a great defender and edmundson i fear might get turned inside out, although he's quicker than he looks. JD may have the odd moment but he's never THAT bad that he's a liability.
Edit: Edmundson was so bad that he was a liability. Twice. [Post edited 31 Oct 2022 10:04]
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You got there before me! | | | |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:00 - Oct 31 with 3613 views | BondiBlue |
| Janoi Donacien on 09:56 - Oct 31 by DJR |
Maybe he's not been as good and comfortable as last season, but I still think his defending is pretty top drawer. It's also not clear to me who we'd replace him with. The only person as good from a defending point of view would be Edmundson but I am not sure whether he would suit that role. I might add that Keogh doesn't seem to have the pace for that role, and I don't think KVY is good enough defensively. I'm still very happy with JD, Woolfy and George, and I don't think any were at fault for the goals we conceded on Saturday. Two were down to players not picking up their man (Ball, Burns), one to Walton and (perhaps harshly) one to Davis.
I think the main problem we have when defending is that certain players seem to switch off, do not follow their man or do not react quickly enough when the ball drops. And I wouldn't say our defenders are the main culprits for that.
Having said all this, I could see Burgess (but not Keogh) featuring when he is fit. [Post edited 31 Oct 2022 9:57]
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Keogh's record at coming on to help us defend a lead and us then conceding late equalisers isn't great. I agree with you, i don't think it's all down to the defenders, but it seems that the keogh for burns substitution isn't working the way mckenna maybe hopes it would. | |
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| Janoi Donacien on 10:06 - Oct 31 with 3565 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Agreed.
Bring in Burgess, push Fridge over to the right and maybe give KVY a run at right wing back.
Give JD and Burns a breather, bring Burns on for impact late on. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 10:09 - Oct 31 with 3546 views | DJR |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:00 - Oct 31 by BondiBlue |
Keogh's record at coming on to help us defend a lead and us then conceding late equalisers isn't great. I agree with you, i don't think it's all down to the defenders, but it seems that the keogh for burns substitution isn't working the way mckenna maybe hopes it would. |
I agree. It does strike me that Keogh is more the type of defender who would have suited a Mick McCarthy team, and it's not obvious to me, given his age and lack of match fitness, that he is able to get up to the speed of the game quickly enough. He also affects the defensive set up. At Sheffield Wednesday, he shunted Woolfy out to the right, and I am inclined to think we wouldn't have conceded the equaliser if Woolfy had still been in the centre. | | | |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:12 - Oct 31 with 3528 views | BondiBlue |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:06 - Oct 31 by Wallingford_Boy |
Agreed.
Bring in Burgess, push Fridge over to the right and maybe give KVY a run at right wing back.
Give JD and Burns a breather, bring Burns on for impact late on. |
I've been watching burns closely the last few games because he seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism on here this season.
His fitness and work rate is incredible. His delivery has improved since last season. His first touch is brilliant and his ball retention is very good. The problem seems to be that he doesn't dribble past people and smash it in the goal any more. I think he's just been found out - he's not a great dribbler. His trick is feint inside then go outside, push it past the defender and run. Not that hard to defend against when you're expecting it.
I wouldn't be dropping him. | |
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| Janoi Donacien on 10:43 - Oct 31 with 3345 views | LankHenners |
As others have said, off the ball we resemble a 4231 more these days so Burns is pressing higher, JD's starting position looks more like a RB. Naturally in that position there's a higher chance of getting isolated rather than when your starting position is a bit narrower and I still think he does a good job by and large.
Last season we were so lopsided that almost everything went down the right so we saw a lot of him and Burns but now we go down the left a lot more which means he has to sit back to avoid leaving big gaps. If you look at our average positions for games we have Burns starting then it still looks like a slightly asymmetrical 343 with Burns and Davis looking like wing-backs but the way we attack means the overlaps are less frequent, or at least less concentrated down his side.
I wouldn't drop him and I don't think the defence needs any messing around with really. A couple of weeks rest (play KVY at Bracknell) will do him good. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 10:48 - Oct 31 with 3312 views | Metal_Hacker |
Simply think the defence needs a re-set ,some set piece work updates and some rest
It's been a tough October and any deficiencies we have will be highlighted when bodies are tired and perhaps carrying the odd niggle.
Simple re-set , engage the brains a little more and we'll be OK |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 10:56 - Oct 31 with 3269 views | hoppy |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:09 - Oct 31 by DJR |
I agree. It does strike me that Keogh is more the type of defender who would have suited a Mick McCarthy team, and it's not obvious to me, given his age and lack of match fitness, that he is able to get up to the speed of the game quickly enough. He also affects the defensive set up. At Sheffield Wednesday, he shunted Woolfy out to the right, and I am inclined to think we wouldn't have conceded the equaliser if Woolfy had still been in the centre. |
Or maybe more the type of defender that is more suited to starting a game than coming on for a few minutes at the end? I've never been a fan of making defensive substitutions unless necessary, as it does tend to unsettle the unit more than it does swapping out midfielders or forward players. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 10:59 - Oct 31 with 3232 views | C_Jam_Blue |
Hard to tell if it is the re-jigged formation or JD is a bit out of form but the right side does not seem to be working as well as last season, either defensively or at the top end of the pitch. A lot of teams seem to target the back post on JD's side with deep crosses into the box so there must be a perceived weakness there.
I'm not sure if he should be dropped for a coupe of games or KMK needs to rejig the formation a bit but after something needs to happen to our defensive set-up as we have gone from conceding an average of 0.6 goals a game in August to 1.4 goals a game in October. | | | |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:59 - Oct 31 with 3222 views | homer_123 |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:48 - Oct 31 by Metal_Hacker |
Simply think the defence needs a re-set ,some set piece work updates and some rest
It's been a tough October and any deficiencies we have will be highlighted when bodies are tired and perhaps carrying the odd niggle.
Simple re-set , engage the brains a little more and we'll be OK |
You defend from the front though, when you win that ball higher up the pitch, there is not the constant pressure on the defence.
It's one the reasons why KM wants to rotate so consistently around that hour mark - he needs fresh legs up top, not only for the attacking threat but to win and then retain the ball higher up the pitch.
I'm really not that worried about the defence, over the course of the season so far, we've been generally very good. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 11:03 - Oct 31 with 3170 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:59 - Oct 31 by homer_123 |
You defend from the front though, when you win that ball higher up the pitch, there is not the constant pressure on the defence.
It's one the reasons why KM wants to rotate so consistently around that hour mark - he needs fresh legs up top, not only for the attacking threat but to win and then retain the ball higher up the pitch.
I'm really not that worried about the defence, over the course of the season so far, we've been generally very good. |
I also agree there Homer that defending from the front is effective or was taking into account the way we play and the changes we make around the 60 min mark. Perhaps we also need a re-set in terms of the closing down work we do more so from a positional sense.
Regardless of how fit the players might be , game after game will not only take it's toll BUT bad habits will also come into the equation
I honestly believe this "break" from league games has come at the right time for more than one reason | |
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| Janoi Donacien on 11:08 - Oct 31 with 3148 views | monty_radio |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:12 - Oct 31 by BondiBlue |
I've been watching burns closely the last few games because he seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism on here this season.
His fitness and work rate is incredible. His delivery has improved since last season. His first touch is brilliant and his ball retention is very good. The problem seems to be that he doesn't dribble past people and smash it in the goal any more. I think he's just been found out - he's not a great dribbler. His trick is feint inside then go outside, push it past the defender and run. Not that hard to defend against when you're expecting it.
I wouldn't be dropping him. |
Burns has been exceptional for us, but his first touch is variable, rather than brilliant - as is his final ball. Sometimes he takes the ball out of a pure blue sky, cushioning it on the run without breaking stride; at other times (see clattering into Port Vale's keeper) that first touch lets it run away from him. Without such faults he would be a Wales regular, and someone would have taken him from Fleetwood long before they did.
We still need him to be as good as he can be to be at our most effective. | |
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| Janoi Donacien on 11:18 - Oct 31 with 3100 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
I'm convinced he's been playing with a knock to be honest, which may be why his levels have dipped slightly.
Those calling for him to be dropped, the only change you could make like for like in that role is KVY.
I imagine the next time Donacien (and probably 75% of the team that featured Saturday) will play is the Cheltenham game on the 12th so a chance to recharge and recover from some niggling injuries. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 11:38 - Oct 31 with 3011 views | Darth_Koont |
He’s had a tougher season this time around, that’s for sure. But I wonder if Donacien’s previous importance as the spare man in attack means he’s now the big target for opposition teams to try and neutralise.
If you stop Donacien getting on the front foot then it seems you neutralise much of Burns’s attacking threat too.
But now we’ve got a much better balanced team (side to side and front to back) then we can find other ways to attack. So if teams want to commit players to choking up our right flank then it seems so far as if we’re doing a lot better with performances and points than when that was our only realistic threat. |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 12:02 - Oct 31 with 2888 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Janoi Donacien on 10:12 - Oct 31 by BondiBlue |
I've been watching burns closely the last few games because he seems to be getting a fair bit of criticism on here this season.
His fitness and work rate is incredible. His delivery has improved since last season. His first touch is brilliant and his ball retention is very good. The problem seems to be that he doesn't dribble past people and smash it in the goal any more. I think he's just been found out - he's not a great dribbler. His trick is feint inside then go outside, push it past the defender and run. Not that hard to defend against when you're expecting it.
I wouldn't be dropping him. |
He also hates doing the dirty side of wing play.. tracking back. | |
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| Janoi Donacien on 12:55 - Oct 31 with 2709 views | homer_123 |
| Janoi Donacien on 12:02 - Oct 31 by Wallingford_Boy |
He also hates doing the dirty side of wing play.. tracking back. |
No he doesn't. | |
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| He's being asked to play..... on 12:59 - Oct 31 with 2673 views | Swansea_Blue |
| He's being asked to play..... on 09:44 - Oct 31 by GlasgowBlue |
Burns form was also better when he was being played as a wing back. He had far more space to run into from a better starting position. |
And we seemed better at defending balls into the box when we played 3 CBs. So apart from it suiting Janoi better, suiting Wes better and making us more solid at the back… what has 3521 ever done for us? |  |
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| Janoi Donacien on 17:08 - Oct 31 with 2233 views | befxblue |
I would go as far as to say I think teams have been targeting JD over the last 4/5 matches when possible, and the downtown in form is more indicative of the fact he is getting more attention.
Which shows how much stronger we have become as a team if one of the best players of last season is now perceived as a weaker link. | | | |
| Janoi Donacien on 21:07 - Oct 31 with 1990 views | BondiBlue |
| Janoi Donacien on 12:02 - Oct 31 by Wallingford_Boy |
He also hates doing the dirty side of wing play.. tracking back. |
I don't think we're watching the same player | |
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| Janoi Donacien on 21:27 - Oct 31 with 1945 views | Bluesky |
I think he is carrying a small injury. |  | | |
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