| Immigration data 21:04 - Nov 1 with 11321 views | Mullet |
I appreciate it's one graph etc. but it does shed a light on the awful rhetoric and ignorance this shambolic government trade on doesn't it?
The "take back control" lie pivoting to this dehumanising 1984 level of shrieking from Braverman and her racist rent-a-gobs is depressing too. |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:08 - Nov 1 with 4414 views | StokieBlue |
That can't be right, certain posters on here told us that Albanians were overrunning the country.
It's almost like a few like to re-enforce their prejudices without actually checking the reality of the situation and then have a pile-on at others for pointing out the obvious deficiencies in their arguments.
The officer will be along shortly to put us straight.
SB |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:17 - Nov 1 with 4381 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Errr..
I'm not disagreeing with you about the rhetoric. But the headline for that graph says, "The UK has the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe" and then the data sets are, "Asylum rates per 10,000 population"
That's not the same as number of asylum applications.
In 2021, The UK had 56,500 persons apply for asylum. Germany, France and Spain had more.next behind the UK was Italy with 45,000. Contrary to that graph, Cyprus has 10th most, with around 12,000.
But the language being used by govt. I agree is disgusting. Its just that graph doesn't paint a true picture. [Post edited 1 Nov 2022 21:18]
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| Immigration data on 21:20 - Nov 1 with 4329 views | Mullet |
| Immigration data on 21:17 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Errr..
I'm not disagreeing with you about the rhetoric. But the headline for that graph says, "The UK has the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe" and then the data sets are, "Asylum rates per 10,000 population"
That's not the same as number of asylum applications.
In 2021, The UK had 56,500 persons apply for asylum. Germany, France and Spain had more.next behind the UK was Italy with 45,000. Contrary to that graph, Cyprus has 10th most, with around 12,000.
But the language being used by govt. I agree is disgusting. Its just that graph doesn't paint a true picture. [Post edited 1 Nov 2022 21:18]
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I never said it was, but this invasion doesn't really make a lot of sense does it? Rates of asylum is a pretty good indicator of all things, but especially this naked fear being whipped up. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:21 - Nov 1 with 4324 views | StokieBlue |
| Immigration data on 21:17 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Errr..
I'm not disagreeing with you about the rhetoric. But the headline for that graph says, "The UK has the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe" and then the data sets are, "Asylum rates per 10,000 population"
That's not the same as number of asylum applications.
In 2021, The UK had 56,500 persons apply for asylum. Germany, France and Spain had more.next behind the UK was Italy with 45,000. Contrary to that graph, Cyprus has 10th most, with around 12,000.
But the language being used by govt. I agree is disgusting. Its just that graph doesn't paint a true picture. [Post edited 1 Nov 2022 21:18]
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Normalising by something like population is entirely acceptable and actually the right thing to do. In this case it would show that Cyprus shoulder more of the burden by population than any other country which is actually impressive given they are not as rich by GDP (another normalised measure) as the other countries in that list.
I would argue that normalising by population paints a more accurate picture than the headline numbers as absolute values.
Totally agree with your point around the rhetoric and language of this government,
SB [Post edited 1 Nov 2022 21:25]
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| Immigration data on 21:24 - Nov 1 with 4292 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Immigration data on 21:20 - Nov 1 by Mullet |
I never said it was, but this invasion doesn't really make a lot of sense does it? Rates of asylum is a pretty good indicator of all things, but especially this naked fear being whipped up. |
Mullet, I never said you inferred anything.
The graph does. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:26 - Nov 1 with 4266 views | gtsb1966 |
| Immigration data on 21:08 - Nov 1 by StokieBlue |
That can't be right, certain posters on here told us that Albanians were overrunning the country.
It's almost like a few like to re-enforce their prejudices without actually checking the reality of the situation and then have a pile-on at others for pointing out the obvious deficiencies in their arguments.
The officer will be along shortly to put us straight.
SB |
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/26/exponential-rise-albanian-migrants-c |  | | |
| Immigration data on 21:29 - Nov 1 with 4223 views | Mullet |
| Immigration data on 21:24 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Mullet, I never said you inferred anything.
The graph does. |
You've lost me then, no one has presented this as total numbers but proportional which is far more accurate anyway.
Anyone reading it as such wouldn't add much credibility to their argument. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:30 - Nov 1 with 4217 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Immigration data on 21:21 - Nov 1 by StokieBlue |
Normalising by something like population is entirely acceptable and actually the right thing to do. In this case it would show that Cyprus shoulder more of the burden by population than any other country which is actually impressive given they are not as rich by GDP (another normalised measure) as the other countries in that list.
I would argue that normalising by population paints a more accurate picture than the headline numbers as absolute values.
Totally agree with your point around the rhetoric and language of this government,
SB [Post edited 1 Nov 2022 21:25]
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And I completely agree. But why not call the graph, number of asylum applications proportional to population? It doesn't take much, and stops any confusion as to the motive of the graph.
What this all boils down to really, is whether or not Braverman was right to call it 'an invasion' and if not, why did she say it?
I think we all agree that the connotation and the semiotics associated with the thought of 'Invasion' is a condition of imminent threat, especially to your family, chiefly the more vulnerable members of your society.
Why say it? One reason, and one reason only to bring certain members of the population back on the side of the Conservative party. Particularly those on the right, and those in the so called 'red wall'.
Make no mistake, they've started campaigning for the next general election. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:32 - Nov 1 with 4202 views | StokieBlue |
You've missed the point of my post but that's OK. It wasn't actually anything to do with your post earlier, although those numbers are somewhat disputed.
Either way it certainly doesn't classify as an invasion. For instance, Russia invaded the Ukraine with 200,000 men then called up another 300,000. Napoleon invaded Russia with 650,000 men, the Germans with 3,800,000 men.
This Albanian "invasion" is massive, all 12,000 of them according to your figures.
SB | |
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| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 with 4166 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Immigration data on 21:29 - Nov 1 by Mullet |
You've lost me then, no one has presented this as total numbers but proportional which is far more accurate anyway.
Anyone reading it as such wouldn't add much credibility to their argument. |
The publishers of the graph inferred it was total numbers:
"Reality check: The UK has one of the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe."
Thats really not the same as a proportional figure that they mention in the next sentence.
Why wouldn't you title the graph, "Reality Check: The UK has the lowest rate of asylum applications by proportion of population", instead of making the viewer read and read again.
Believe it or not Mullet, I agree with you, my issue is with the laying out of the data. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 with 4162 views | StokieBlue |
| Immigration data on 21:30 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
And I completely agree. But why not call the graph, number of asylum applications proportional to population? It doesn't take much, and stops any confusion as to the motive of the graph.
What this all boils down to really, is whether or not Braverman was right to call it 'an invasion' and if not, why did she say it?
I think we all agree that the connotation and the semiotics associated with the thought of 'Invasion' is a condition of imminent threat, especially to your family, chiefly the more vulnerable members of your society.
Why say it? One reason, and one reason only to bring certain members of the population back on the side of the Conservative party. Particularly those on the right, and those in the so called 'red wall'.
Make no mistake, they've started campaigning for the next general election. |
Surely "by 10,000 of population" clearly means it's proportional to population?
Braverman is an imbecile. I suspect she doesn't understand the concepts behind the majority of things she says.
SB | |
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| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 with 4159 views | Illinoisblue |
| Immigration data on 21:30 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
And I completely agree. But why not call the graph, number of asylum applications proportional to population? It doesn't take much, and stops any confusion as to the motive of the graph.
What this all boils down to really, is whether or not Braverman was right to call it 'an invasion' and if not, why did she say it?
I think we all agree that the connotation and the semiotics associated with the thought of 'Invasion' is a condition of imminent threat, especially to your family, chiefly the more vulnerable members of your society.
Why say it? One reason, and one reason only to bring certain members of the population back on the side of the Conservative party. Particularly those on the right, and those in the so called 'red wall'.
Make no mistake, they've started campaigning for the next general election. |
It clearly says “rate of”. I’m not sure what you’re confused about |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:38 - Nov 1 with 4106 views | BlueBadger |
| Immigration data on 21:32 - Nov 1 by StokieBlue |
You've missed the point of my post but that's OK. It wasn't actually anything to do with your post earlier, although those numbers are somewhat disputed.
Either way it certainly doesn't classify as an invasion. For instance, Russia invaded the Ukraine with 200,000 men then called up another 300,000. Napoleon invaded Russia with 650,000 men, the Germans with 3,800,000 men.
This Albanian "invasion" is massive, all 12,000 of them according to your figures.
SB |
It's barely a 'football tournament'. |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:51 - Nov 1 with 4036 views | GlasgowBlue |
Sone facts: courtesy of Refugee Action
93% of the people who cross the Channel claim asylum
That means 'people seeking asylum' is the correct term for them. It is legal to arrive in this way and claim asylum, but it is dangerous. It is the lack of safe routes into the UK that drives them to dangerous ones.
Only 4% of people who arrived on small boats in 2021 have had their asylum claims processed this year.
The huge backlog in processing asylum claims is driving the overcrowding of processing centres and driving up the cost of the asylum system.
Of the claims from people arriving in 2021 that have been processed, 85% were granted protection.
That means the vast majority were found to be refugees.
Cut through the politics and a clear picture emerges. Refugees are crossing the Channel and being detained in miserable conditions, at great expense to the public, because ministers would prefer to indulge in fantasies of punishing them rather than get on with assessing their claims. |  |
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| Immigration data on 23:14 - Nov 1 with 3866 views | HARRY10 |
Of course it makes no sense, it's righties. You know the ones who told us that after brexit we would be able to control our borders. Whereas outside of the EU there is now no mechanism for returning those on boats back to the first safe country..................there has been no attempt to check imports either, and the EU now control the border with NI and GB.
And a couple of interesting points
There was an estimated 1.3m EU workers who left the EU in the last 2 years. Deduct the numbers of those people and you will see they are a tiny proportion, if it is numbers that overexcite you. Some might also say these folk do not come anywhere near the numbers who died through Johnson's mishandling of the pandemic
"The majority of Albanian asylum seekers granted leave to remain in the UK in the past year were trafficked women"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/braverman-asylum-seekers-albania
But trying to point out the truth to righties is like trying to teach a donkey to play chess. It is accepted that that odious poster put out by Farage warning of 79m Turks about to move to the EU was a blatant lie.
Yet, righties chose a known liar over known facts.
And as long as there are rightie thickos there will be snake oil salesman such as Farage and Johnson to fill their silly bigoted heads with lies and misinformation
Folk over this side of the Atlantic mock the hillbillies in the states who believe those evangelical preachers when they make ludicrous claims, and send them millions.
Well, that is how normal folk over here see rightie/brexiters. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 23:35 - Nov 1 with 3809 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
The publishers of the graph inferred it was total numbers:
"Reality check: The UK has one of the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe."
Thats really not the same as a proportional figure that they mention in the next sentence.
Why wouldn't you title the graph, "Reality Check: The UK has the lowest rate of asylum applications by proportion of population", instead of making the viewer read and read again.
Believe it or not Mullet, I agree with you, my issue is with the laying out of the data. |
Face it you're either 'right on' or wrong. I wonder how everything became so binary! |  |
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| Immigration data on 23:45 - Nov 1 with 3800 views | factual_blue |
| Immigration data on 21:24 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Mullet, I never said you inferred anything.
The graph does. |
The graph can't infer anything. It might imply something though. |  |
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| Immigration data on 23:48 - Nov 1 with 3797 views | factual_blue |
Sue-Ellen peddles this stuff because it's what the tory heartland of the home counties want to hear. | |
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| Immigration data on 00:05 - Nov 2 with 3770 views | factual_blue |
| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
The publishers of the graph inferred it was total numbers:
"Reality check: The UK has one of the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe."
Thats really not the same as a proportional figure that they mention in the next sentence.
Why wouldn't you title the graph, "Reality Check: The UK has the lowest rate of asylum applications by proportion of population", instead of making the viewer read and read again.
Believe it or not Mullet, I agree with you, my issue is with the laying out of the data. |
They may or may not have implied it. You have inferred it. | |
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| Immigration data on 11:57 - Nov 2 with 3449 views | BlueBadger |
| Immigration data on 23:14 - Nov 1 by HARRY10 |
Of course it makes no sense, it's righties. You know the ones who told us that after brexit we would be able to control our borders. Whereas outside of the EU there is now no mechanism for returning those on boats back to the first safe country..................there has been no attempt to check imports either, and the EU now control the border with NI and GB.
And a couple of interesting points
There was an estimated 1.3m EU workers who left the EU in the last 2 years. Deduct the numbers of those people and you will see they are a tiny proportion, if it is numbers that overexcite you. Some might also say these folk do not come anywhere near the numbers who died through Johnson's mishandling of the pandemic
"The majority of Albanian asylum seekers granted leave to remain in the UK in the past year were trafficked women"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/braverman-asylum-seekers-albania
But trying to point out the truth to righties is like trying to teach a donkey to play chess. It is accepted that that odious poster put out by Farage warning of 79m Turks about to move to the EU was a blatant lie.
Yet, righties chose a known liar over known facts.
And as long as there are rightie thickos there will be snake oil salesman such as Farage and Johnson to fill their silly bigoted heads with lies and misinformation
Folk over this side of the Atlantic mock the hillbillies in the states who believe those evangelical preachers when they make ludicrous claims, and send them millions.
Well, that is how normal folk over here see rightie/brexiters. |
Parklife! | |
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| Immigration data on 12:03 - Nov 2 with 3424 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
The publishers of the graph inferred it was total numbers:
"Reality check: The UK has one of the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe."
Thats really not the same as a proportional figure that they mention in the next sentence.
Why wouldn't you title the graph, "Reality Check: The UK has the lowest rate of asylum applications by proportion of population", instead of making the viewer read and read again.
Believe it or not Mullet, I agree with you, my issue is with the laying out of the data. |
You know what "rates" means?
Strange hill ... | | | |
| Immigration data on 12:03 - Nov 2 with 3425 views | BlueBadger |
| Immigration data on 21:34 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
The publishers of the graph inferred it was total numbers:
"Reality check: The UK has one of the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe."
Thats really not the same as a proportional figure that they mention in the next sentence.
Why wouldn't you title the graph, "Reality Check: The UK has the lowest rate of asylum applications by proportion of population", instead of making the viewer read and read again.
Believe it or not Mullet, I agree with you, my issue is with the laying out of the data. |
This is a very weird, nitpicky and quasi-whataboutish hill to choose to die on. | |
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| Immigration data on 12:06 - Nov 2 with 3410 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 12:03 - Nov 2 by BlueBadger |
This is a very weird, nitpicky and quasi-whataboutish hill to choose to die on. |
We conceded goals at a rate of 2 per half at the weekend.
"No we didn't, we drew 4-4." | | | |
| Immigration data on 12:09 - Nov 2 with 3398 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 12:06 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
We conceded goals at a rate of 2 per half at the weekend.
"No we didn't, we drew 4-4." |
The word 'rate' can just as easily be used in relation to absolute numbers as to proportions. | |
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| Immigration data on 12:09 - Nov 2 with 3399 views | Cotty |
| Immigration data on 21:30 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
And I completely agree. But why not call the graph, number of asylum applications proportional to population? It doesn't take much, and stops any confusion as to the motive of the graph.
What this all boils down to really, is whether or not Braverman was right to call it 'an invasion' and if not, why did she say it?
I think we all agree that the connotation and the semiotics associated with the thought of 'Invasion' is a condition of imminent threat, especially to your family, chiefly the more vulnerable members of your society.
Why say it? One reason, and one reason only to bring certain members of the population back on the side of the Conservative party. Particularly those on the right, and those in the so called 'red wall'.
Make no mistake, they've started campaigning for the next general election. |
It DOES say that on the top of the graph. This thread is a sad indictment of our schools system... |  | | |
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