| Davis & England 16:17 - May 29 with 8043 views | FrimleyBlue |
Having this chat with my son earlier.. I can't quite work out why he's been ignored by Southgate.
At first I thought it was the slight weakness of his game which is defending, but when you look back, he's learned from earlier games in his town career where he was the easy target with floated balls to the back post, so i'm going to say tick that improvement box.
Then there's the engine, he was always great at getting forwards, maybe not so then getting back, he's clearly doing both and not only that but even in the last 10 minutes of the game he's still doing both jobs, so another tick.
With how much england tend to control games too, i dont understand why he's not being picked, even if it's as a back up option..
Is there a big part in his game i'm missing, or is just because it's not been done in the prem yet. |  |
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| Davis & England on 16:21 - May 29 with 5096 views | Linners |
Let's be honest, if he signed for a top half PL side tomorrow, he'd be in the first post-Euros squad. As was the case then Dyer signed for Newcastle in the late 90s... |  | | |
| Davis & England on 16:22 - May 29 with 5064 views | ArmaghBlue |
Because he doesn’t play for an “elite” club |  | | |
| Davis & England on 16:23 - May 29 with 5039 views | Europablue |
It's just the idea that England don't call up players from the second tier. I'm sure he is on the radar, and will get a call up if he performs in the Premier League. |  | | |
| Davis & England on 16:23 - May 29 with 5037 views | dirtyboy |
Not done in the prem.
Plus, all England fans who don't support Ipswich would slate him if it didn't work out. He had nothing to gain by selecting an untested player. |  | | |
| Davis & England on 16:24 - May 29 with 5028 views | GeoffSentence |
| Davis & England on 16:21 - May 29 by Linners |
Let's be honest, if he signed for a top half PL side tomorrow, he'd be in the first post-Euros squad. As was the case then Dyer signed for Newcastle in the late 90s... |
I'm pretty sure Kieron Dyer actually got picked for an England squad whilst still with Ipswich in the 1st division. Him and Wrighty. |  |
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| Davis & England on 16:26 - May 29 with 4971 views | wkj |
Davis, as in the same Davis you said couldn't cross or defend? [Post edited 29 May 2024 16:26]
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| Davis & England on 16:27 - May 29 with 4957 views | rickw |
| Davis & England on 16:24 - May 29 by GeoffSentence |
I'm pretty sure Kieron Dyer actually got picked for an England squad whilst still with Ipswich in the 1st division. Him and Wrighty. |
They did, the last one to do it was Kalvin Phillips
I guess Southgate wants him to prove himself against Premier league wingers first |  |
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| Davis & England on 16:29 - May 29 with 4908 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Davis & England on 16:26 - May 29 by wkj |
Davis, as in the same Davis you said couldn't cross or defend? [Post edited 29 May 2024 16:26]
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Did you miss the part in the op opening when I said he'd improved in certain aspects of his game? Yes that davis.
Whilst im here, I remember saying Burgess was never going to make it in the champ. He went onto being probably the best CB we've had in the champ since De Vos.
Also, I didn't like hladky when he first came onto the scene.
Now, if you like bringing up previous posts, feel free to bring up the one where i praised KM for the improvements he made with many of the players in the squad. I doubt you will but hey ho. Thanks for your contribution to the OP.
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| Davis & England on 16:31 - May 29 with 4845 views | wkj |
| Davis & England on 16:29 - May 29 by FrimleyBlue |
Did you miss the part in the op opening when I said he'd improved in certain aspects of his game? Yes that davis.
Whilst im here, I remember saying Burgess was never going to make it in the champ. He went onto being probably the best CB we've had in the champ since De Vos.
Also, I didn't like hladky when he first came onto the scene.
Now, if you like bringing up previous posts, feel free to bring up the one where i praised KM for the improvements he made with many of the players in the squad. I doubt you will but hey ho. Thanks for your contribution to the OP.
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I didn't miss them, i just ignored them as that's your usual tact of not admitting you we're wrong and wanted to be subjective in the moment. He was decent all season and certainly wasn't a 'fixer upper' who started rough and improved into quality. | |
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| Davis & England on 16:32 - May 29 with 4805 views | Swansea_Blue |
Er, because they’ve got players like Walker, Shaw and Trippier. With the best will in the world, he’s not at that level yet. |  |
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| Davis & England on 16:33 - May 29 with 4769 views | footers |
| Davis & England on 16:31 - May 29 by wkj |
I didn't miss them, i just ignored them as that's your usual tact of not admitting you we're wrong and wanted to be subjective in the moment. He was decent all season and certainly wasn't a 'fixer upper' who started rough and improved into quality. |
They say god gives you one mouth to speak and two ears to listen for good reason.
I think Frimley was born with two arseholes. |  |
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| Davis & England on 16:35 - May 29 with 4742 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Davis & England on 16:31 - May 29 by wkj |
I didn't miss them, i just ignored them as that's your usual tact of not admitting you we're wrong and wanted to be subjective in the moment. He was decent all season and certainly wasn't a 'fixer upper' who started rough and improved into quality. |
He was similar to Creswell imo, rough round the edges, games made him better, no different to many players. Was i wrong? not in my opinion, did he improve, yes imo.
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| Davis & England on 16:36 - May 29 with 4699 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Davis & England on 16:32 - May 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Er, because they’ve got players like Walker, Shaw and Trippier. With the best will in the world, he’s not at that level yet. |
Sorry if i've got this wrong, but aren't two of those RB's and 2 of those injured? | |
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| Davis & England on 16:38 - May 29 with 4655 views | wkj |
| Davis & England on 16:29 - May 29 by FrimleyBlue |
Did you miss the part in the op opening when I said he'd improved in certain aspects of his game? Yes that davis.
Whilst im here, I remember saying Burgess was never going to make it in the champ. He went onto being probably the best CB we've had in the champ since De Vos.
Also, I didn't like hladky when he first came onto the scene.
Now, if you like bringing up previous posts, feel free to bring up the one where i praised KM for the improvements he made with many of the players in the squad. I doubt you will but hey ho. Thanks for your contribution to the OP.
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Seems as you edited your reply:
You can get cute all you want with a passive aggressive reply with a twist of victim complex, I am merely curious why you usually go in and slate players or the manager in some way and when you're proven wrong you come back with posts about how great they are. [Post edited 29 May 2024 16:42]
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| Davis & England on 16:52 - May 29 with 4412 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
The jump between Champ and Premier is huge. I have no doubts Leif can do it at that level, but he hasn't yet.
So to take him to a knockout tournament to play the elite of the elite potentially would be a very strange decision. Names like Tyrick Mitchell and Alfie Doughty would be ahead of him, and even they didn't get picked. [Post edited 29 May 2024 16:52]
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| Davis & England on 16:53 - May 29 with 4368 views | Herbivore |
| Davis & England on 16:22 - May 29 by ArmaghBlue |
Because he doesn’t play for an “elite” club |
Going on the TWTD definition of elite, does he need to be angling for a move to Boreham Wood? |  |
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| Davis & England on 16:57 - May 29 with 4319 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Davis & England on 16:38 - May 29 by wkj |
Seems as you edited your reply:
You can get cute all you want with a passive aggressive reply with a twist of victim complex, I am merely curious why you usually go in and slate players or the manager in some way and when you're proven wrong you come back with posts about how great they are. [Post edited 29 May 2024 16:42]
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Because change can happen. I'm not going to not comment just incase things might be different 2 seasons down the line. Hence why I've always stuck by my opinions being placed at that specific time.
I don't need to cover the km one from the interview that was just being stupid on purpose and already accounted for.
But I'm not going to never comment on a players performance over a large opening batch of appearences just incase he's different in two seasons.
There were many who didn't rate hutchinson at first. Most of those however would now want him to be our first signing. Are you going to ask them the same question? No because it's normal football chat.
Fair play to you if there's never been any players you felt had a weakness at the start but went onto become a better player. If that's true. Then be a scout as that's an amazing skill to have. | |
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| Davis & England on 16:58 - May 29 with 4288 views | BlueBadger |
| Davis & England on 16:53 - May 29 by Herbivore |
Going on the TWTD definition of elite, does he need to be angling for a move to Boreham Wood? |
Pretty sure that this is Bullying, Being Unkind, Sniping AND Piling On, Herbers. [Post edited 29 May 2024 17:03]
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| Davis & England on 17:02 - May 29 with 4248 views | PhilTWTD |
| Davis & England on 16:57 - May 29 by FrimleyBlue |
Because change can happen. I'm not going to not comment just incase things might be different 2 seasons down the line. Hence why I've always stuck by my opinions being placed at that specific time.
I don't need to cover the km one from the interview that was just being stupid on purpose and already accounted for.
But I'm not going to never comment on a players performance over a large opening batch of appearences just incase he's different in two seasons.
There were many who didn't rate hutchinson at first. Most of those however would now want him to be our first signing. Are you going to ask them the same question? No because it's normal football chat.
Fair play to you if there's never been any players you felt had a weakness at the start but went onto become a better player. If that's true. Then be a scout as that's an amazing skill to have. |
The weaknesses at defending you cite have been mentioned by ex-pros as well, Terry and Russell on Life's a Pitch TV, for example. How much the advanced nature of his role impacts upon that, I'm not sure.
Will be interesting to see how he does in the Premier League and whether England caps follow from there. He is - arguably - the only member of the squad who might have got a Premier League move this summer had we not gone up.
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| Davis & England on 17:07 - May 29 with 4131 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Davis & England on 17:02 - May 29 by PhilTWTD |
The weaknesses at defending you cite have been mentioned by ex-pros as well, Terry and Russell on Life's a Pitch TV, for example. How much the advanced nature of his role impacts upon that, I'm not sure.
Will be interesting to see how he does in the Premier League and whether England caps follow from there. He is - arguably - the only member of the squad who might have got a Premier League move this summer had we not gone up.
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I think it was really evident too, what made we realise it so much was his performances against whittaker against plymouth in the latter game of this season, whittaker didn't get a sniff of the inverted runs he likes and that was a large part Davis's improvement in body positioning and defensive steelness. | |
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| Davis & England on 17:07 - May 29 with 4125 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Davis & England on 17:02 - May 29 by PhilTWTD |
The weaknesses at defending you cite have been mentioned by ex-pros as well, Terry and Russell on Life's a Pitch TV, for example. How much the advanced nature of his role impacts upon that, I'm not sure.
Will be interesting to see how he does in the Premier League and whether England caps follow from there. He is - arguably - the only member of the squad who might have got a Premier League move this summer had we not gone up.
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I have to say I do think the weakness at defending is overstated by some. He is SO high up the pitch that he very rarely has any defending to do. And when he does, his one v one defending, I think is pretty good. Thought he did that very well at Coventry, Swansea away sticks out as well.
The goals he is "at fault' for if you will. The 2 vs Southampton are often mentioned. But that is purely a positional thing as opposed to being a bad defender. Or that's how I see it anyway. | |
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| Davis & England on 17:10 - May 29 with 4059 views | Herbivore |
| Davis & England on 16:35 - May 29 by FrimleyBlue |
He was similar to Creswell imo, rough round the edges, games made him better, no different to many players. Was i wrong? not in my opinion, did he improve, yes imo.
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I'm not sure rough around the edges is a good way to describe either Cresswell or Davis. Sure they both had areas where they could get better and both improved, but both were clearly top quality footballers from very early on in their time here. It's okay to admit you were wrong/too quick to judge. | |
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| Davis & England on 17:12 - May 29 with 4046 views | homer_123 |
| Davis & England on 17:02 - May 29 by PhilTWTD |
The weaknesses at defending you cite have been mentioned by ex-pros as well, Terry and Russell on Life's a Pitch TV, for example. How much the advanced nature of his role impacts upon that, I'm not sure.
Will be interesting to see how he does in the Premier League and whether England caps follow from there. He is - arguably - the only member of the squad who might have got a Premier League move this summer had we not gone up.
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There is something here though about the way KM lines his teams up.
Davis sits way, way higher up the pitch than a normal left back or even normal wing back.
Teams look to try and exploit that space behind him, with Morsy often covering for Davis being up the pitch.
KM has identified that he's happy to trade off this potential issue with the fact that Davis contributes hugely to our attacking threat providing not just an outlet but an overload for that left attacking side. EDIT - he's contributed not just with assists and goals, is what I am saying here.
So, when we talk about Davis and his defensive capability and nous, it is worth remembering that we have never seen him play as an actual left back or even traditional wing back. [Post edited 29 May 2024 17:13]
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| Davis & England on 17:14 - May 29 with 4003 views | Herbivore |
| Davis & England on 17:07 - May 29 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
I have to say I do think the weakness at defending is overstated by some. He is SO high up the pitch that he very rarely has any defending to do. And when he does, his one v one defending, I think is pretty good. Thought he did that very well at Coventry, Swansea away sticks out as well.
The goals he is "at fault' for if you will. The 2 vs Southampton are often mentioned. But that is purely a positional thing as opposed to being a bad defender. Or that's how I see it anyway. |
He's had occasional moments of switching off. Think possibly Swansea at home, one of the Leeds goals at PR as well. He has lapses every now and then but much of the time when it looks like he's exposed, he's so high up the pitch (which is his role) that he can't make it back to cover. Think Woolf is naturally more adept at covering space when the RB bombs on - which admittedly is less often in our lopsided system - than Burgess is on the other side. He does cover, but sometimes he's a fraction slow or doesn't quite get it right. Not a criticism as it's a rough ask to cover two defensive positions and is a feature of how we play. | |
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| Davis & England on 17:16 - May 29 with 3974 views | homer_123 |
| Davis & England on 17:14 - May 29 by Herbivore |
He's had occasional moments of switching off. Think possibly Swansea at home, one of the Leeds goals at PR as well. He has lapses every now and then but much of the time when it looks like he's exposed, he's so high up the pitch (which is his role) that he can't make it back to cover. Think Woolf is naturally more adept at covering space when the RB bombs on - which admittedly is less often in our lopsided system - than Burgess is on the other side. He does cover, but sometimes he's a fraction slow or doesn't quite get it right. Not a criticism as it's a rough ask to cover two defensive positions and is a feature of how we play. |
We end up with a back three when Leif bombs on and Morsy is Davis's cover, not Burgess or whoever is the LCB. | |
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