| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) 15:53 - Aug 25 with 3421 views | SitfcB |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:55 - Aug 25 with 3055 views | smithy69 |
You can. That wasn’t his shoulder lol |  | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:57 - Aug 25 with 3024 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
But it is OK to grab the keeper round the neck to prevent a quick breakaway!
How that wasn't given as a red by VAR is very poor. |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:58 - Aug 25 with 2987 views | SitfcB |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:55 - Aug 25 by smithy69 |
You can. That wasn’t his shoulder lol |
Clearly his shoulder. | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:58 - Aug 25 with 2986 views | GlasgowBlue |
It was his arm. Hit the badge. |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:59 - Aug 25 with 2955 views | smithy69 |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:58 - Aug 25 by SitfcB |
Clearly his shoulder. |
Back to school for you :) biology lesson needed :) | | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:00 - Aug 25 with 2921 views | SitfcB |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:58 - Aug 25 by GlasgowBlue |
It was his arm. Hit the badge. |
Yeah, the badge that was on his shoulder due to the angle of his arm. | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:01 - Aug 25 with 2913 views | Vaughan8 |
I actually could not believe that was disallowed. Cleared his shoulder/top of the arm.
I'm convinced VAR is just a legal way of helping the top teams. Very rarely goes against them. [Post edited 25 Aug 2024 16:01]
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:02 - Aug 25 with 2865 views | BrianTablet |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 15:57 - Aug 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
But it is OK to grab the keeper round the neck to prevent a quick breakaway!
How that wasn't given as a red by VAR is very poor. |
It's as if the 'big' teams are treated differently... |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:05 - Aug 25 with 2806 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:01 - Aug 25 by Vaughan8 |
I actually could not believe that was disallowed. Cleared his shoulder/top of the arm.
I'm convinced VAR is just a legal way of helping the top teams. Very rarely goes against them. [Post edited 25 Aug 2024 16:01]
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If it had been the top of the arm it would have been handball. If it had clearly been shown to have hit the badge/arm below the shoulder, it would be right to rule it out. On several replays from only one angle, it was not at all clear that it hit below the shoulder. It was ruled out as VAR decided it had clearly struck below the shoulder. I think those deciding VAR got that badly wrong. | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:06 - Aug 25 with 2790 views | Scuzzer |
Nah...clearly it was his arm. |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:06 - Aug 25 with 2776 views | pointofblue |
If Match of the Day is consistent, neither incident will be shown later. | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:12 - Aug 25 with 2708 views | Vaughan8 |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:05 - Aug 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
If it had been the top of the arm it would have been handball. If it had clearly been shown to have hit the badge/arm below the shoulder, it would be right to rule it out. On several replays from only one angle, it was not at all clear that it hit below the shoulder. It was ruled out as VAR decided it had clearly struck below the shoulder. I think those deciding VAR got that badly wrong. |
"Back in 2019, IFAB permitted contact with the top of the arm, colloquially dubbed the "sleeve rule," which gives players some leeway with using their shoulder.
This means a ball which touches the upper portion of a player's arm will not be considered a handball, and leaves only blatant handball fouls to be punished." | | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:28 - Aug 25 with 2547 views | bsw72 |
Law 12 - When referencing handball, the guideline is anything below the line of the armpit is considered handball - which was clearly the case in the Bournemouth game. |  | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:31 - Aug 25 with 2507 views | stiff_talking |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:28 - Aug 25 by bsw72 |
Law 12 - When referencing handball, the guideline is anything below the line of the armpit is considered handball - which was clearly the case in the Bournemouth game. |
Bournemouth denied a clear winner and Newcastle was saved by VAR | | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:35 - Aug 25 with 2474 views | bsw72 |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:31 - Aug 25 by stiff_talking |
Bournemouth denied a clear winner and Newcastle was saved by VAR |
Exactly, Bournemouth denied a winner and Newcastle saved by VAR through application of the laws of the game and ratified with a VAR check as to whether the ball struck the player. | | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:36 - Aug 25 with 2466 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:28 - Aug 25 by bsw72 |
Law 12 - When referencing handball, the guideline is anything below the line of the armpit is considered handball - which was clearly the case in the Bournemouth game. |
"the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit". I challenge you to find footage that clearly shows the ball in contact with the arm below that boundary. | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:42 - Aug 25 with 2445 views | bsw72 |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:36 - Aug 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
"the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit". I challenge you to find footage that clearly shows the ball in contact with the arm below that boundary. |
I really don't care enough to go through, screenshot and share it, I just happen to agree with the decision based on the replays I saw. If you have a different view then we can agree to disagree. | | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:53 - Aug 25 with 2392 views | bsw72 |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:12 - Aug 25 by Vaughan8 |
"Back in 2019, IFAB permitted contact with the top of the arm, colloquially dubbed the "sleeve rule," which gives players some leeway with using their shoulder.
This means a ball which touches the upper portion of a player's arm will not be considered a handball, and leaves only blatant handball fouls to be punished." |
Worth noting that the Premier League has issued further guidance for 2024/5 for handballs which includes the following statement:
"An arm position which makes the body bigger and unjustifiable
Again, as stated before, the threshold for what is justifiable or unjustifiable greatly relaxes if there is a clear deflection or change of trajectory for the ball just before it hits the arm"
It's all subjective though but the interpretation may have been with the arm position as it was making the body bigger and the view that it possibly hit below the armpit. My view was it hit below what I would consider as a referee the threshold, but others may view that differently. Everyone on this thread is potentially correct. | | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:58 - Aug 25 with 2340 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:53 - Aug 25 by bsw72 |
Worth noting that the Premier League has issued further guidance for 2024/5 for handballs which includes the following statement:
"An arm position which makes the body bigger and unjustifiable
Again, as stated before, the threshold for what is justifiable or unjustifiable greatly relaxes if there is a clear deflection or change of trajectory for the ball just before it hits the arm"
It's all subjective though but the interpretation may have been with the arm position as it was making the body bigger and the view that it possibly hit below the armpit. My view was it hit below what I would consider as a referee the threshold, but others may view that differently. Everyone on this thread is potentially correct. |
Very much a subjective call. And the reason why VAR should only really be getting involved in clear and obvious errors ... which in itself is still subjective.
Perhaps we should do away with VAR entirely and go back to accepting that officials make mistakes! | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 23:09 - Aug 25 with 1864 views | MattinLondon |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:58 - Aug 25 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Very much a subjective call. And the reason why VAR should only really be getting involved in clear and obvious errors ... which in itself is still subjective.
Perhaps we should do away with VAR entirely and go back to accepting that officials make mistakes! |
Very few people accepted that officials made mistakes, thats how we got VAR in the first place. |  | | |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 08:28 - Aug 26 with 1652 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 16:01 - Aug 25 by Vaughan8 |
I actually could not believe that was disallowed. Cleared his shoulder/top of the arm.
I'm convinced VAR is just a legal way of helping the top teams. Very rarely goes against them. [Post edited 25 Aug 2024 16:01]
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Yep.
Any controversial incident is referred to VAR and the decision is given to the bigger team. |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 08:33 - Aug 26 with 1634 views | nodge_blue |
I was glad it was disallowed as I see Bournemouth as a rival in our mini league.
Clearly it’s hit him on the arm. Where does the arm start and finish anyway in the letter of the football law book? |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 08:38 - Aug 26 with 1607 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 08:33 - Aug 26 by nodge_blue |
I was glad it was disallowed as I see Bournemouth as a rival in our mini league.
Clearly it’s hit him on the arm. Where does the arm start and finish anyway in the letter of the football law book? |
As bsw72 has patiently explained earlier in the thread, the armpit forms a starting point to draw an imaginary line around the upper arm to define what is shoulder and what is handbally arm. There was a little discussion about the cartoon like characters used for the illustration in the book of football law on Match of the Day 2 last night.
What I want to know is why the Bournemouth attacker wasn't penalised for charging in and draping himself all over the Newcastle defender in his effort to shove the ball in with his arm (and try and disguise it as a header) ? |  |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 09:10 - Aug 26 with 1550 views | nodge_blue |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 08:38 - Aug 26 by WeWereZombies |
As bsw72 has patiently explained earlier in the thread, the armpit forms a starting point to draw an imaginary line around the upper arm to define what is shoulder and what is handbally arm. There was a little discussion about the cartoon like characters used for the illustration in the book of football law on Match of the Day 2 last night.
What I want to know is why the Bournemouth attacker wasn't penalised for charging in and draping himself all over the Newcastle defender in his effort to shove the ball in with his arm (and try and disguise it as a header) ? |
And where does an armpit exactly finish. And given that's under the arm and hidden how can I accurately draw a line from it. And then what point of the ball am I judging to be in contact below the armpit i.e. the arm, the centre of the ball or the outline? | |
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| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 09:12 - Aug 26 with 1537 views | WeWereZombies |
| Can’t score with your shoulder anymore then. (n/t) on 09:10 - Aug 26 by nodge_blue |
And where does an armpit exactly finish. And given that's under the arm and hidden how can I accurately draw a line from it. And then what point of the ball am I judging to be in contact below the armpit i.e. the arm, the centre of the ball or the outline? |
There's a job waiting for you at FA headquarters... | |
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