| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty 16:47 - Sep 2 with 4481 views | Mullet |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2910vrrygo?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0_48
I’m sure because of who she is, this will ignite the two-tier Keir conspiracy theory nonsense again, but the judge has warned she faces jail. Amazing after legal advice she decided not to fight the charge.
Chilling that stereotypically “respectable middle class” people felt this emboldened. I’m not sure how to feel about the calls for him to resign either. The fact he defended her from the outset and has softened his tone doesn’t mean he is a nasty racist either. |  |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 16:55 - Sep 2 with 4061 views | ElderGrizzly |
"If that makes me racist, so be it," she added
The CPS and Police brought up that she had spent months previously also posting racist/anti-immigration tweets and continued to do so after this post too.
She also admitted in police interview to hating immigrants. Awkwardly she was a childminder to children of immigrants... |  | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:03 - Sep 2 with 3996 views | pointofblue |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 16:55 - Sep 2 by ElderGrizzly |
"If that makes me racist, so be it," she added
The CPS and Police brought up that she had spent months previously also posting racist/anti-immigration tweets and continued to do so after this post too.
She also admitted in police interview to hating immigrants. Awkwardly she was a childminder to children of immigrants... |
I guess lack of manpower meant she wasn't bought to court before, if she had been spending months posting racist/anti-immigration tweets? |  |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:07 - Sep 2 with 3975 views | positivity |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:03 - Sep 2 by pointofblue |
I guess lack of manpower meant she wasn't bought to court before, if she had been spending months posting racist/anti-immigration tweets? |
posting racism doesn't tend to get brought to court, incitement to murder is a more serious offence | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:14 - Sep 2 with 3952 views | bluelagos |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 16:55 - Sep 2 by ElderGrizzly |
"If that makes me racist, so be it," she added
The CPS and Police brought up that she had spent months previously also posting racist/anti-immigration tweets and continued to do so after this post too.
She also admitted in police interview to hating immigrants. Awkwardly she was a childminder to children of immigrants... |
I challenged one guy today, he informed me that if you wanted a new house, just go to Dover in a dingy and hey presto, they'll give you put you in hotel, give you £12k and then buy you a house.
So I asked him why he hasn't? If it's so easy, go and do it, go and get yourself a free house.
But apparently the free house is only open to foreigners innit. |  |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:16 - Sep 2 with 3920 views | Keno |
Pled or Pleaded? |  |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:26 - Sep 2 with 3854 views | factual_blue |
The evidence for a social media offence is always going to be pretty clear cut. A guilty plea automatically gets you about one-third taken off your sentence. |  |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:28 - Sep 2 with 3840 views | factual_blue |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:16 - Sep 2 by Keno |
Pled or Pleaded? |
Yes.
She is, however, clearly a miserable pleader.
(And an unreconstructed racist). | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 18:51 - Sep 2 with 3687 views | Mullet |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:14 - Sep 2 by bluelagos |
I challenged one guy today, he informed me that if you wanted a new house, just go to Dover in a dingy and hey presto, they'll give you put you in hotel, give you £12k and then buy you a house.
So I asked him why he hasn't? If it's so easy, go and do it, go and get yourself a free house.
But apparently the free house is only open to foreigners innit. |
I was talking about this at work today. We are going to see a rise in this sort of radicalisation this year. | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 19:04 - Sep 2 with 3621 views | leitrimblue |
Looks like Northampton as itself a new reform candidate once she's done her time.. |  | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 19:14 - Sep 2 with 3570 views | Swansea_Blue |
Not so surprising to see this sort of behaviour from that source. Anti-immigration sentiment has been normalised over years (probably decades now) by the right wing media and even our recent governments. I suspect it cuts across all social classes. |  |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:15 - Sep 3 with 3280 views | Mercian |
People who have read my non football posts on this forum will know I am very anti far right. Having said that years in prison for posting bile online is in itself extreme. This sort of offence should be dealt with at a magistrates court and for a first time offence there should not be a custodial sentence. She crossed the line on free speech but sending her to prison sets a bad precedent. Free speech is not to protect people from saying puppies are cute or a warm spring day is pleasant. It is to protect people from saying controversial, even hateful content. [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 6:17]
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:48 - Sep 3 with 3256 views | tcblue |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:15 - Sep 3 by Mercian |
People who have read my non football posts on this forum will know I am very anti far right. Having said that years in prison for posting bile online is in itself extreme. This sort of offence should be dealt with at a magistrates court and for a first time offence there should not be a custodial sentence. She crossed the line on free speech but sending her to prison sets a bad precedent. Free speech is not to protect people from saying puppies are cute or a warm spring day is pleasant. It is to protect people from saying controversial, even hateful content. [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 6:17]
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It absolutely isn't to protect hate speech.
Good grief | | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 07:26 - Sep 3 with 3199 views | WeWereZombies |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:48 - Sep 3 by tcblue |
It absolutely isn't to protect hate speech.
Good grief |
I don't think it is as easy as that to define. If we go back to John Stuart Mill and his theories about incitement we can see a number of issues, and he was talking about the Corn Laws rather than ethnicity:
'According to the pragmatic interpretation, Mill defends free speech as a matter of policy rather than principle. Interference with an agent’s freedom of speech is no violation of her rights. Although the expression of opinion falls under the jurisdiction of society, in this view, the costs of censorship inevitably outweigh its benefits. Hence, censorship always turns out to be bad policy. Although this universal generalization is a strong claim, it is not a principled conclusion. Mill’s argument for free speech is thus analogous to his argument for free trade. Since Mill recognizes no right to economic liberty, restrictions on trade are merely misguided rather than unjust. The pragmatic interpretation claims similarly that the expression of opinion falls outside the sphere of liberty precisely because some opinions are harmful. This implies that novel proposals to censor specific opinions should be subject to the utilitarian calculus...'
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/social-philosophy-and-policy/article/def [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 7:28]
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 08:56 - Sep 3 with 3095 views | Mercian |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:48 - Sep 3 by tcblue |
It absolutely isn't to protect hate speech.
Good grief |
If that is the case we should be prosecuted for calling people from Norfolk inbreds. Or the old Man Utd song about Park Ji Sung. People wanted to ban it because it contained a reference to eating dogs in South Korea which they do. They was no call to ban it for suggesting that people from Liverpool eat rats which they don't. Where is the line drawn? [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 8:58]
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:29 - Sep 3 with 3032 views | positivity |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:15 - Sep 3 by Mercian |
People who have read my non football posts on this forum will know I am very anti far right. Having said that years in prison for posting bile online is in itself extreme. This sort of offence should be dealt with at a magistrates court and for a first time offence there should not be a custodial sentence. She crossed the line on free speech but sending her to prison sets a bad precedent. Free speech is not to protect people from saying puppies are cute or a warm spring day is pleasant. It is to protect people from saying controversial, even hateful content. [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 6:17]
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inciting people to burn and kill immigrants isn't just bile, it's a very serious offence | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:47 - Sep 3 with 2951 views | WeWereZombies |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:29 - Sep 3 by positivity |
inciting people to burn and kill immigrants isn't just bile, it's a very serious offence |
True, but Mercian is asking questions about how the offence is formed. What we cannot know is the mental state of the Conservative councillor's wife when she made these criminal statements. Was she totally serious or making what she thought were jokes ? If she was serious was she fully aware of how dangerous her actions could be ? There may be grounds for diminished responsibility if it can be proven that she was not of sound mind. And this highlights another issue, is she dealt with by a criminal justice system that is creaking under the weight of overcrowded prisons or dealt with by a mental health service that is creaking under the weight of insufficient funding ?
I will also throw in the matter of those reading her statements and acting on them not being responsible human beings capable of making up their own minds. If any number of people feel incited to act upon a call to murder others without evaluating it soberly then society has a bigger problem with allowable free speech and the resulting limits placed and what that means for the type of social control exercised by decision makers in government, the police, the judiciary and the armed forces. | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:48 - Sep 3 with 2950 views | Mookamoo |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 08:56 - Sep 3 by Mercian |
If that is the case we should be prosecuted for calling people from Norfolk inbreds. Or the old Man Utd song about Park Ji Sung. People wanted to ban it because it contained a reference to eating dogs in South Korea which they do. They was no call to ban it for suggesting that people from Liverpool eat rats which they don't. Where is the line drawn? [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 8:58]
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The line will constantly be redrawn and is different to all. There has to be legal line somewhere and surely threatening physical harm to others is always the wrong side of that line. There then has to be consequences. What those consequences are is a different debate.
Interestingly the line Musk has drawn doesn't include this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8ljjjmpg5o
I honestly don't think X is going to be about in 5 years and Musk will do a Maxwell. |  | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 10:05 - Sep 3 with 2910 views | positivity |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:47 - Sep 3 by WeWereZombies |
True, but Mercian is asking questions about how the offence is formed. What we cannot know is the mental state of the Conservative councillor's wife when she made these criminal statements. Was she totally serious or making what she thought were jokes ? If she was serious was she fully aware of how dangerous her actions could be ? There may be grounds for diminished responsibility if it can be proven that she was not of sound mind. And this highlights another issue, is she dealt with by a criminal justice system that is creaking under the weight of overcrowded prisons or dealt with by a mental health service that is creaking under the weight of insufficient funding ?
I will also throw in the matter of those reading her statements and acting on them not being responsible human beings capable of making up their own minds. If any number of people feel incited to act upon a call to murder others without evaluating it soberly then society has a bigger problem with allowable free speech and the resulting limits placed and what that means for the type of social control exercised by decision makers in government, the police, the judiciary and the armed forces. |
i see what you're saying, but her lawyers will have weighed all this up and will have advised her whether to plead guilty or for mitigation; her posting history does suggest that the views were consistently held (although slightly less murderous).
i think there does have to be a change in the way discourse is held online and a crackdown on the dangerous extremes and unfortunately that means examples will be made to change behaviour. that said, i'm always in favour of rehabilation over pure punishment, so there should be a mechanism for reducing this.
agree with the second para | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 12:01 - Sep 3 with 2762 views | eireblue |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 08:56 - Sep 3 by Mercian |
If that is the case we should be prosecuted for calling people from Norfolk inbreds. Or the old Man Utd song about Park Ji Sung. People wanted to ban it because it contained a reference to eating dogs in South Korea which they do. They was no call to ban it for suggesting that people from Liverpool eat rats which they don't. Where is the line drawn? [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 8:58]
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You should be prosecuted if you were encouraging people to burn inbreds from Norfolk, during a period when people were trying to burn inbreds from Norfolk. |  | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 12:25 - Sep 3 with 2691 views | Leaky |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 17:14 - Sep 2 by bluelagos |
I challenged one guy today, he informed me that if you wanted a new house, just go to Dover in a dingy and hey presto, they'll give you put you in hotel, give you £12k and then buy you a house.
So I asked him why he hasn't? If it's so easy, go and do it, go and get yourself a free house.
But apparently the free house is only open to foreigners innit. |
Or you can rent a run down hovel off of a Labour MP |  | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 22:59 - Sep 3 with 2514 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 06:15 - Sep 3 by Mercian |
People who have read my non football posts on this forum will know I am very anti far right. Having said that years in prison for posting bile online is in itself extreme. This sort of offence should be dealt with at a magistrates court and for a first time offence there should not be a custodial sentence. She crossed the line on free speech but sending her to prison sets a bad precedent. Free speech is not to protect people from saying puppies are cute or a warm spring day is pleasant. It is to protect people from saying controversial, even hateful content. [Post edited 3 Sep 2024 6:17]
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So misguided |  | | |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 02:54 - Sep 4 with 2428 views | Mercian |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 22:59 - Sep 3 by reusersfreekicks |
So misguided |
How is it? Obviously inciting violence is a serious matter but part of the charge includes her posting "Deport immigrants." That should not be an offence, that is free speech which is the point I am trying to make. Back in 2018 a young mother on a tram in Croydon asked a man if he could move his bag from a seat so she could sit down. He refused so she snapped and told him to "Go back to your own country." This happened just before Xmas. She was arrested, charged and held on remand until the earlyJanuary and then was given a 6 month suspended sentence. She missed Xmas with her family and got a criminal record because she reacted to someone who thought his bag was more deserved of a seat than she was. That is not right. [Post edited 4 Sep 2024 4:02]
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:29 - Sep 4 with 2275 views | Whos_blue |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 02:54 - Sep 4 by Mercian |
How is it? Obviously inciting violence is a serious matter but part of the charge includes her posting "Deport immigrants." That should not be an offence, that is free speech which is the point I am trying to make. Back in 2018 a young mother on a tram in Croydon asked a man if he could move his bag from a seat so she could sit down. He refused so she snapped and told him to "Go back to your own country." This happened just before Xmas. She was arrested, charged and held on remand until the earlyJanuary and then was given a 6 month suspended sentence. She missed Xmas with her family and got a criminal record because she reacted to someone who thought his bag was more deserved of a seat than she was. That is not right. [Post edited 4 Sep 2024 4:02]
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I wasn't aware of this story.
The bloke sounds like a complete ar5e.
The woman in question should have quite rightly called him out for being a complete ar5e.
His race or country of origin serves no purpose in this instance, regardless of his demeanor.
By choosing to use the language she did makes the offence "racially aggravated".
I'm not sure the date of the offence makes much difference to be honest. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 16:33 - Sep 4 with 2114 views | Mullet |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 09:29 - Sep 3 by positivity |
inciting people to burn and kill immigrants isn't just bile, it's a very serious offence |
I think that often gets lost in instances like this. People often assume “she didn’t mean it” therefore it isn’t really a crime.
Perhaps that speaks to the normalisation of this sort of language as much as it does the sense of morality vs criminality for some? | |
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| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 16:38 - Sep 4 with 2102 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Wife of Tory councillor has pled guilty on 16:33 - Sep 4 by Mullet |
I think that often gets lost in instances like this. People often assume “she didn’t mean it” therefore it isn’t really a crime.
Perhaps that speaks to the normalisation of this sort of language as much as it does the sense of morality vs criminality for some? |
Based on her previous posting history, she clearly did mean something along those lines.
Which I assume is why she has been advised to plead guilty. | | | |
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