| The trend to excuse Trump voters 13:34 - Nov 13 with 5484 views | reusersfreekicks |
I am not at ease with this to be honest. Seems to be in vogue to blame the democrats for not doing enough to appeal to blue collar workers and that we can't blame those who voted for Trump.
But what about personal responsibility and awareness?
It's widely in the public domain that Trump has so many flaws to put it lightly, not least launching a violent attack on the US seat of government and doing his utmost to destabilise democracy. His endless lies don't take much seeing through. And his plain vindictiveness and bullying.
There seems to be extreme views that those voting for him are really stupid and ignorant on one hand or that they are acting entirely logical on the other?
Yes some maybe many are ignorant. But so so many more aren't, I hope, and they have knowingly voted for him to (a) be the republican candidate and (b) to be president.
They are culpable for what is to come imo.
Just heard some of his new appointments - those Palestine supporting voters who switched to Trump in anger at Biden are in for a nasty shock - though it shouldn't be one.
[Post edited 13 Nov 2024 13:35]
|  | | |  |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 13:55 - Nov 13 with 3023 views | lowhouseblue |
"But what about personal responsibility and awareness?"
trump voters consider that, even though their views differ from yours (and mine), they exercised personal responsibility and awareness when they voted. how people view their relationship to the state differs in the us compared to the uk. there is a greater tendency to see the state in conflict with individual liberty - that leads, for example, to much greater opposition to tax. opposition to /distrust of the federal government is even more widespread - and has evolved into a widespread view that it corrupt and self-serving. electing a president is different from electing a uk parliament - lots of stuff people really care about happens at the state level and there's deep suspicion of every thing that happens in washington. electing a president is seen by many as a free hit to express anger with washington and a chance to express opposition to it - what better way than to send a president there who is out to wreck things. they think he'll stir up the elite who get rich off the federal government. a majority of us voters don't really care about foreign policy - to many it is just what causes working class americans to die in foreign wars.
understanding why people made a decision different from your own is a good exercise. there's lots of very really good analysis of the election about at the moment. reading it to understand the republican mindset, even is you still disagree with it, is a great opportunity to get inside someone else's political mind. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:00 - Nov 13 with 2997 views | giant_stow |
"...those Palestine supporting voters who switched to Trump in anger at Biden are in for a nasty shock..."
Those are the only ones I have contempt for tbh. I don't understand women, black and Latino Trump voters, but that's different. [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 14:01]
|  |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:18 - Nov 13 with 2943 views | iamatractorboy |
I understand how many of them are disillusioned with government and sick of what they see as corruption. But they voted for TRUMP to end corruption and cronyism. TRUMP. To...end...corruption...
It just does not compute. |  | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:25 - Nov 13 with 2896 views | Help |
Surely whatever democratic country you are in, when you vote, you vote for what you perceive is best for you. No?
Do we not all vote for self interest. Which party/policies are best for me.
Any other reason to vote? |  |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:25 - Nov 13 with 2895 views | baxterbasics |
It's easier to excuse when you acknowledge that Hariss offered nothing of hope aside from not being Trump, and a minority woman. |  |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:28 - Nov 13 with 2887 views | Swansea_Blue |
It's similar here. We saw it during Corbyn's time. Larry Elliott in his final column as Guardian economics editor yesterday was pretty much blaming the left for de-industrialisation under Thatcher, the financial crash and Brexit and through to the rise of populism globally in the present day. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/nov/10/from-thatcher-to-trump-and-brex
I'm not really a fan of his, as I think he's cockeyed on Brexit. But in the context of the OP it's worth a read and is thought provoking if nothing else. If people are getting left at the bottom of the pile (or even if they think they are, despite rising living standards over most of this period) it's understandable they could be hoodwinked by snake oil salesmen. [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 14:28]
|  |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:30 - Nov 13 with 2863 views | iamatractorboy |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:25 - Nov 13 by Help |
Surely whatever democratic country you are in, when you vote, you vote for what you perceive is best for you. No?
Do we not all vote for self interest. Which party/policies are best for me.
Any other reason to vote? |
Some people vote for what they feel is best for society as a whole. Yes, really (not to get too holier-than-thou about it!). But then, perhaps that makes people feel good about themselves. So then you are into a whole debate about what is truly altruistic and that probably doesn't have an answer. | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:32 - Nov 13 with 2838 views | shady |
scum rises to the top |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:36 - Nov 13 with 2815 views | J2BLUE |
It still amazes me how many times right wing parties win elections and people are surprised.
The voters are then mocked and belittled. Their concerns are dismissed by the Very Real Concerns gang and they are shouted down and told who they have to vote for and if they don't they are racist, stupid etc.
The loudest voices on the losing side then learn absolutely nothing and double down on the same tactics.
I believe the vast majority of people are in the centre which has become a dirty word in our increasingly polarised world where the only opinions which are valid are the extremes. When centrists are forced to choose between two options they perceive to be left and right they find it far easier to go right. Starmer knew it.
So yes, question the voters but you also have to question the strategists, the democrats and the general toxic and increasingly divided atmosphere elections are fought in.
Learn or keep losing the majority of elections. |  |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:38 - Nov 13 with 2806 views | thebooks |
I don’t think it’s to excuse people voting fascist. It’s more the Dems failure to assemble a coalition that added up to enough to beat him.
Trump’s vote in numbers has been remarkably consistent in the last 3 elections, but only Biden managed to beat him (and convincingly in terms of pure numbers).
Harris’s platform was basically the same as Clinton’s. Not surprisingly, so was the result. |  | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:43 - Nov 13 with 2773 views | nrb1985 |
Think you're over thinking this.
The election was a referendum on the economy and inflation.
Wrongly, many equate Trump with better economic times. And a lot of people don't pay attention to politics until it's time to vote, so possibly aren't even aware he said these things.
Or, they do, and don't care because their purchasing power under Trump was +25% vs. now. [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 14:45]
| | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:55 - Nov 13 with 2702 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:25 - Nov 13 by baxterbasics |
It's easier to excuse when you acknowledge that Hariss offered nothing of hope aside from not being Trump, and a minority woman. |
So disagree with this gross over simplification | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:57 - Nov 13 with 2698 views | bsw72 |
Trump Supporters and Republican Voters are not one and the same, and the political culture in the US is also unique - to an outsider looking in from the UK it seems mad that people will vote for Trump, but when you are immersed in the swamp that is US politics it becomes a very grey area.
You need to consider the how the foundational principles, political institutions and the 2 party systems differ to other "western" democracies, not to mention how government is perceived and the role the media plays.
The US political culture is hugely influenced by ideals of individualism, liberty, and democracy. The Constitution emphasizes the protection of individual rights and freedoms, and there is a strong belief in the importance of personal responsibility and self-reliance. On top of this you have the U.S. federal system with a clear separation of powers among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches which fosters a culture of checks and balances, leading to a more adversarial political environment., especially with just a 2 party system.
FInally compound all the above with the media landscape which is highly polarized, with partisan outlets influencing public opinion and political discourse and you have the perfect storm.
The majority of republican voters will only watch the likes of Fox news, which just magnifies the positives of Trump with little or no control over content or fact checking. Those who have voted Republican have done so in the belief that he will benefit them, and also plays into the more Republican cultural view of general skepticism toward government intervention in personal lives with a strong belief in limited government and free-market principles.
Basically Trump nailed it this time round vs 2020, playing 100% to everything that Republicans and right leaning swing voters wanted - combined with the Democrats always going to be in trouble as a current incumbent who had dropped in popularity, who had to replace their candidate at (reasonably) short notice. |  | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:02 - Nov 13 with 2658 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:36 - Nov 13 by J2BLUE |
It still amazes me how many times right wing parties win elections and people are surprised.
The voters are then mocked and belittled. Their concerns are dismissed by the Very Real Concerns gang and they are shouted down and told who they have to vote for and if they don't they are racist, stupid etc.
The loudest voices on the losing side then learn absolutely nothing and double down on the same tactics.
I believe the vast majority of people are in the centre which has become a dirty word in our increasingly polarised world where the only opinions which are valid are the extremes. When centrists are forced to choose between two options they perceive to be left and right they find it far easier to go right. Starmer knew it.
So yes, question the voters but you also have to question the strategists, the democrats and the general toxic and increasingly divided atmosphere elections are fought in.
Learn or keep losing the majority of elections. |
Seems like your putting out some kind of equivalence between how left the democrats are and how right Trump is which is not the case is it.
If it were normal old school republican/tories then your argument would hold water. You ignore Trump's criminal actions incitement of riots etc as if he were just another candidate.
Bewildering | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:03 - Nov 13 with 2653 views | itfcjoe |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:36 - Nov 13 by J2BLUE |
It still amazes me how many times right wing parties win elections and people are surprised.
The voters are then mocked and belittled. Their concerns are dismissed by the Very Real Concerns gang and they are shouted down and told who they have to vote for and if they don't they are racist, stupid etc.
The loudest voices on the losing side then learn absolutely nothing and double down on the same tactics.
I believe the vast majority of people are in the centre which has become a dirty word in our increasingly polarised world where the only opinions which are valid are the extremes. When centrists are forced to choose between two options they perceive to be left and right they find it far easier to go right. Starmer knew it.
So yes, question the voters but you also have to question the strategists, the democrats and the general toxic and increasingly divided atmosphere elections are fought in.
Learn or keep losing the majority of elections. |
There is a problem with the loudest voices on the left where if you don't agree with everything they say and pass the purity test then you are made to feel like you are a fascist.
I can't stand what the Tories have done here, but will freely admit to not thinking transwomen should be in womens sport, that DEI and the like is a bad thing which punishes white males and that 'white privilige' doesn't exist. Because of that it seems most people on the left don't want me on their side and to vote for them. |  |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:04 - Nov 13 with 2644 views | Europablue |
It seems to me that you should just accept that others have a different opinion and maybe a different interpretation of events. They exercised their right to vote, and presumably you don't as a non-American.
Their right to vote deserves more respect than your opinion on their vote.
Also, on the point of your accusation of Trump "launching a violent attack on the US seat of government", don't you think that they would have got something to stick if he actually did something illegal. You are entitled to your own opinion on whether what he did was immoral, you might even point to him telling his supporters to peacefully protest was a tactic to absolve himself of legal responsibility. You will also notice that he is only getting prosecuted in blue States and in the case of the Stormy Daniels case, they are pushing to the very limits of what they can get away with in terms of the felony classification. Just the fact that they waited until the election to prosecute tells you all you need to know about the political motivation for the prosecutions. There is even one case about mishandling of classified documents, but the Democrats didn't make so much of fuss about Biden doing the same in his garage and they certainly did not seem morally outraged by Hillary Clinton deleting all those emails. | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:08 - Nov 13 with 2612 views | Europablue |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:00 - Nov 13 by giant_stow |
"...those Palestine supporting voters who switched to Trump in anger at Biden are in for a nasty shock..."
Those are the only ones I have contempt for tbh. I don't understand women, black and Latino Trump voters, but that's different. [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 14:01]
|
It is rather bigoted to suggest that women, black people and Latino people are not allowed to vote outside a perceived natural demographic tendency. In fact, I imagine being taken for granted is what turned many of those voters off voting for Harris.
Why are only white men allowed to freely vote? | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:08 - Nov 13 with 2615 views | DJR |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:03 - Nov 13 by itfcjoe |
There is a problem with the loudest voices on the left where if you don't agree with everything they say and pass the purity test then you are made to feel like you are a fascist.
I can't stand what the Tories have done here, but will freely admit to not thinking transwomen should be in womens sport, that DEI and the like is a bad thing which punishes white males and that 'white privilige' doesn't exist. Because of that it seems most people on the left don't want me on their side and to vote for them. |
I'm of the left and had to look up what DEI means! [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 15:11]
|  | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:11 - Nov 13 with 2587 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:04 - Nov 13 by Europablue |
It seems to me that you should just accept that others have a different opinion and maybe a different interpretation of events. They exercised their right to vote, and presumably you don't as a non-American.
Their right to vote deserves more respect than your opinion on their vote.
Also, on the point of your accusation of Trump "launching a violent attack on the US seat of government", don't you think that they would have got something to stick if he actually did something illegal. You are entitled to your own opinion on whether what he did was immoral, you might even point to him telling his supporters to peacefully protest was a tactic to absolve himself of legal responsibility. You will also notice that he is only getting prosecuted in blue States and in the case of the Stormy Daniels case, they are pushing to the very limits of what they can get away with in terms of the felony classification. Just the fact that they waited until the election to prosecute tells you all you need to know about the political motivation for the prosecutions. There is even one case about mishandling of classified documents, but the Democrats didn't make so much of fuss about Biden doing the same in his garage and they certainly did not seem morally outraged by Hillary Clinton deleting all those emails. |
As a long time far right apologist for Farage and Trump I'm afraid your views are no surprise here.
There are many pending cases against him.
I wonder how far you would defend him - guess we will find out | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:13 - Nov 13 with 2562 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 14:25 - Nov 13 by Help |
Surely whatever democratic country you are in, when you vote, you vote for what you perceive is best for you. No?
Do we not all vote for self interest. Which party/policies are best for me.
Any other reason to vote? |
The wider good maybe? | | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:14 - Nov 13 with 2556 views | StokieBlue |
The appointments thus far are very concerning. They are also trolling people, Musks new department has the acronym DOGE FFS.
SB |  | | |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:19 - Nov 13 with 2517 views | J2BLUE |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:02 - Nov 13 by reusersfreekicks |
Seems like your putting out some kind of equivalence between how left the democrats are and how right Trump is which is not the case is it.
If it were normal old school republican/tories then your argument would hold water. You ignore Trump's criminal actions incitement of riots etc as if he were just another candidate.
Bewildering |
I deliberately used the word perceive which you chose to ignore.
I'm not ignoring his criminal actions at all.
What do you think about the general point? | |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:19 - Nov 13 with 2501 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You seem to ignore the main motivational factor beyond sheer force of habit…what’s in it for me
I’m not entirely sure the likes of Elon Musk are unaware? The great unwashed in the fly over states will almost certainly e better off under a Trump administration - as will business owners whether billionaires with government contracts or not.
What he pronounces is quite appealing compared to a geriatric suffering from memory loss - or a woman who has been an anonymous and useless VP - its somewhat arrogant to think otherwise
Anyway as a supporter of Franchise Town you ought to be a dyed in the wool republican….or have you not been following the words of wisdom of that nice Brinsley Schwarz - if racism and unfortunate civilian deaths courtesy of the Arizona Police dont float your boat | |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:19 - Nov 13 with 2510 views | J2BLUE |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:03 - Nov 13 by itfcjoe |
There is a problem with the loudest voices on the left where if you don't agree with everything they say and pass the purity test then you are made to feel like you are a fascist.
I can't stand what the Tories have done here, but will freely admit to not thinking transwomen should be in womens sport, that DEI and the like is a bad thing which punishes white males and that 'white privilige' doesn't exist. Because of that it seems most people on the left don't want me on their side and to vote for them. |
Completely agree. | |
| |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:25 - Nov 13 with 2468 views | itfcjoe |
| The trend to excuse Trump voters on 15:08 - Nov 13 by DJR |
I'm of the left and had to look up what DEI means! [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 15:11]
|
I think it's a US term but just an easy way to say I don't agree with ethnicity and diversity targets in work places | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
