| Ah, it's started... on 09:18 - May 13 with 1959 views | BlueBadger |
Give him his due, he waited a few weeks before starting up on this one. That's longer than George Osborne would have done. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:20 - May 13 with 1967 views | GlasgowBlue |
We’ve seen unprecedented government spending to keep people in jobs and stop businesses going bankrupt in the past couple of months. This has to be paid for and some difficult decision will have to be made.
But freezing the pay of health workers in particular will be a completely unacceptable, both morally and politically. And for those two reasons, and knowing Boris Johnson the latter will be his main consideration, I dint see the pay freeze happening.
Scrapping HS2 will be a more likely option. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:22 - May 13 with 1944 views | Guthrum |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:20 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
We’ve seen unprecedented government spending to keep people in jobs and stop businesses going bankrupt in the past couple of months. This has to be paid for and some difficult decision will have to be made.
But freezing the pay of health workers in particular will be a completely unacceptable, both morally and politically. And for those two reasons, and knowing Boris Johnson the latter will be his main consideration, I dint see the pay freeze happening.
Scrapping HS2 will be a more likely option. |
Tho it's arguable how much money scrapping HS2 would save at this stage. Especially if you take into consideration the jobs created by the construction work. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:23 - May 13 with 1940 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:18 - May 13 by BlueBadger |
Give him his due, he waited a few weeks before starting up on this one. That's longer than George Osborne would have done. |
I guess it just confirms the suspicion that if/when this all goes back to "normal" there will be no financial remuneration for those who have worked through the darkest hours, no re balancing of our values, no redistribution of the wealth.
Nope, we will just go back to cutting the essential services we need and patronisingly terming important roles as "low skill"
Bankers, Financial Advisers and Academy Trust's rejoice.
F*cking bleak. |  | | |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:25 - May 13 with 1927 views | sparks |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:20 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
We’ve seen unprecedented government spending to keep people in jobs and stop businesses going bankrupt in the past couple of months. This has to be paid for and some difficult decision will have to be made.
But freezing the pay of health workers in particular will be a completely unacceptable, both morally and politically. And for those two reasons, and knowing Boris Johnson the latter will be his main consideration, I dint see the pay freeze happening.
Scrapping HS2 will be a more likely option. |
It will need to be tax rises.
If a further freeze is appleid to public sector workers (and not just health care workers) who have tolerated oingoing severe pay restraint whilst watching hte private sector grow rapidly in wage terms, there will be revolt. People will work to rule, at best. Many will strike if they are able. And rightly so.
That said- this is presumably a document exploring reality- options and prospects, not policy. So the immediate doom mongering and cries of "nasty tories" really arent logical. [Post edited 13 May 2020 9:26]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:26 - May 13 with 1907 views | Herbivore |
Workers in the public sector have already endured a decade in which they've seen their real terms pay cut significantly. Further pay freezes will cripple them and are deeply unfair given that the burden for getting us through this has fallen largely on them. How about we, you know, tax big companies properly? Maybe ask the super rich to chip in a bit more? No? |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:27 - May 13 with 1916 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:23 - May 13 by Libero |
I guess it just confirms the suspicion that if/when this all goes back to "normal" there will be no financial remuneration for those who have worked through the darkest hours, no re balancing of our values, no redistribution of the wealth.
Nope, we will just go back to cutting the essential services we need and patronisingly terming important roles as "low skill"
Bankers, Financial Advisers and Academy Trust's rejoice.
F*cking bleak. |
You sound surprised. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:27 - May 13 with 1916 views | Guthrum |
It does say "may" and "could". Would surprise me if such things were not under discussion (particularly among fiscal conservatives). But whether such a thing would be politically acceptable in the current climate is another matter.
After all, it would be a good way of losing support in all those northern constituencies they've just won. | |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:27 - May 13 with 1914 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:20 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
We’ve seen unprecedented government spending to keep people in jobs and stop businesses going bankrupt in the past couple of months. This has to be paid for and some difficult decision will have to be made.
But freezing the pay of health workers in particular will be a completely unacceptable, both morally and politically. And for those two reasons, and knowing Boris Johnson the latter will be his main consideration, I dint see the pay freeze happening.
Scrapping HS2 will be a more likely option. |
It's time to get creative and re consider what actually is worth what.
Honestly Glassers, the fact it's even been spoken about suggests it's nailed on that they're going to attempt to go back to exactly how it was before all of this, which may not be all too surprising but is absolutely unacceptable.
Will this whole health crisis wake people up and encourage them to move away from voting for this self harming tripe? Probably not. *sighs* | | | |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:30 - May 13 with 1892 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:27 - May 13 by ITFC_Forever |
You sound surprised. |
I tend to try to give people the benefit of the doubt. | | | |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:32 - May 13 with 1874 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:25 - May 13 by sparks |
It will need to be tax rises.
If a further freeze is appleid to public sector workers (and not just health care workers) who have tolerated oingoing severe pay restraint whilst watching hte private sector grow rapidly in wage terms, there will be revolt. People will work to rule, at best. Many will strike if they are able. And rightly so.
That said- this is presumably a document exploring reality- options and prospects, not policy. So the immediate doom mongering and cries of "nasty tories" really arent logical. [Post edited 13 May 2020 9:26]
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Yes. Tax rises are a given. My HS2 comment was to mitigate some of the public sector pay freeze.
A revolt and an election defeat will ensure that a public sector pay freeze won’t happen. But all options will be on the table when discussions take place which is why these leaks aren’t helpful.
I’ve had meetings regarding what happens next in my business. One of the options is to shut down for good. It’s been discussed, as all options are. But it’s highly unlikely and certainly not desirable. | |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:33 - May 13 with 1869 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:23 - May 13 by Libero |
I guess it just confirms the suspicion that if/when this all goes back to "normal" there will be no financial remuneration for those who have worked through the darkest hours, no re balancing of our values, no redistribution of the wealth.
Nope, we will just go back to cutting the essential services we need and patronisingly terming important roles as "low skill"
Bankers, Financial Advisers and Academy Trust's rejoice.
F*cking bleak. |
It is normal to ask for a worse case scenario and suggestions as to how to mitigate the outcome. No evidence whatsoever that this is ever going to be government policy. The civil service is leaking like a sieve.
There will be a need to grow the economy once we have established the new norm. The biggest danger is that individuals will put off spending leading to a much slower recovery.
If anything there will be a commitment to increase salaries within the NHS and to pay it with a 1-2p increase in income tax. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:34 - May 13 with 1855 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:27 - May 13 by Libero |
It's time to get creative and re consider what actually is worth what.
Honestly Glassers, the fact it's even been spoken about suggests it's nailed on that they're going to attempt to go back to exactly how it was before all of this, which may not be all too surprising but is absolutely unacceptable.
Will this whole health crisis wake people up and encourage them to move away from voting for this self harming tripe? Probably not. *sighs* |
See my most recent post. Nothing is off the table when looking at how we get out of this mess financially. All options have to be floated. It doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. | |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:35 - May 13 with 1847 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:25 - May 13 by sparks |
It will need to be tax rises.
If a further freeze is appleid to public sector workers (and not just health care workers) who have tolerated oingoing severe pay restraint whilst watching hte private sector grow rapidly in wage terms, there will be revolt. People will work to rule, at best. Many will strike if they are able. And rightly so.
That said- this is presumably a document exploring reality- options and prospects, not policy. So the immediate doom mongering and cries of "nasty tories" really arent logical. [Post edited 13 May 2020 9:26]
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I'm sorry but to consider this as a "reality-option and prospect" exposes that ideologically this crisis hasn't even touched the sides and that there is a no desire from the Conservatives to readdress many of the issues that have been highlighted or exacerbated over the last two months.
No creativity, no re-imagination, nope, just back to smashing the arse out of the countries essential services ASAP, excellent. | | | |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:39 - May 13 with 1821 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:35 - May 13 by Libero |
I'm sorry but to consider this as a "reality-option and prospect" exposes that ideologically this crisis hasn't even touched the sides and that there is a no desire from the Conservatives to readdress many of the issues that have been highlighted or exacerbated over the last two months.
No creativity, no re-imagination, nope, just back to smashing the arse out of the countries essential services ASAP, excellent. |
Do you even read the responses you are getting. | |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:40 - May 13 with 1812 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:39 - May 13 by Pinewoodblue |
Do you even read the responses you are getting. |
I'm sorry? Care to elaborate? | | | |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:41 - May 13 with 1810 views | giant_stow |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:23 - May 13 by Libero |
I guess it just confirms the suspicion that if/when this all goes back to "normal" there will be no financial remuneration for those who have worked through the darkest hours, no re balancing of our values, no redistribution of the wealth.
Nope, we will just go back to cutting the essential services we need and patronisingly terming important roles as "low skill"
Bankers, Financial Advisers and Academy Trust's rejoice.
F*cking bleak. |
Maybe that reblancing will happen just by dint of public sector workers having secure jobs, whilw the private sector is decimated. Just a thougjt - dont be cross. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:42 - May 13 with 1802 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:41 - May 13 by giant_stow |
Maybe that reblancing will happen just by dint of public sector workers having secure jobs, whilw the private sector is decimated. Just a thougjt - dont be cross. |
Possible but improbable I'd say. | | | |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:43 - May 13 with 1794 views | footers |
It's such as shame that MPs are no longer allowed to vote on their own salaries. If they were able to, I think they'd definitely reverse their recent payrise and implement a wage freeze for themselves for the term of the parliament. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:45 - May 13 with 1780 views | sparks |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:35 - May 13 by Libero |
I'm sorry but to consider this as a "reality-option and prospect" exposes that ideologically this crisis hasn't even touched the sides and that there is a no desire from the Conservatives to readdress many of the issues that have been highlighted or exacerbated over the last two months.
No creativity, no re-imagination, nope, just back to smashing the arse out of the countries essential services ASAP, excellent. |
No- it doesnt. It reflects how serious administrators, civil servants and business people approach problems. You have to look at everything thoroughly. This will be civil service work- not even government strategy papers. You cannot infer an intent or outcome from that. You are massively jumping the gun. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:45 - May 13 with 1776 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:40 - May 13 by Libero |
I'm sorry? Care to elaborate? |
You have to explore all possible options, there is no evidence whatsoever to show this is what will be government policy.
You are never going to accept that as you have a closed mind. It is almost as if you want it to happen as you presumably Feel it will improve the chances of securing the utopia you crave. | |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:45 - May 13 with 1772 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:35 - May 13 by Libero |
I'm sorry but to consider this as a "reality-option and prospect" exposes that ideologically this crisis hasn't even touched the sides and that there is a no desire from the Conservatives to readdress many of the issues that have been highlighted or exacerbated over the last two months.
No creativity, no re-imagination, nope, just back to smashing the arse out of the countries essential services ASAP, excellent. |
I’d say that Sunak has proved that lack of being creative isn’t something he suffers from.
If a public sector wage freeze becomes policy and passes in the commons then I’ll be alongside you in condemnation. But it isn’t and hasn’t. It’s one of hundreds of ideas that will be floated in such meetings.somebody may also float the idea of scrapping Trident. That won’t happen either. | |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:47 - May 13 with 1768 views | Darth_Koont |
As we've got one of the lowest combinations of income tax and corporate tax for a Western economy, then it's pretty obvious where the low-hanging fruit really are.
But anyway, we need to move away from this household economy idea that everything we borrow needs to be paid for and the books must balance. We're a sovereign economy that can pay off the cost of Coronavirus and its after-effects over decades, not years. And our national debt has gone up by a trillion over the last 20 years and pretty normal economic cycles. If that's economically prudent during normal times, then we seem happy doing it wrong anyway.
The problem is that the neoliberals will pay to prop up markets (hypocritically and selfishly torpedoing their own ideology at the same time) rather than support innocent people. Why? Because it's always been about getting theirs not governing a country. |  |
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:47 - May 13 with 1766 views | giant_stow |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:42 - May 13 by Libero |
Possible but improbable I'd say. |
The economy is going to look bleaker than anything imaginable. Whole sectors will be screwed possibly for years. On newsnight last night, they had a leaked doc laying out possible budget deficits for this year. The base case was £337b - worst case £550b. I cant remember what the worst year's deficit was during the financial crisis but guess it was between £100b and £150b. [Post edited 13 May 2020 9:52]
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| Ah, it's started... on 09:50 - May 13 with 1744 views | Libero |
| Ah, it's started... on 09:45 - May 13 by Pinewoodblue |
You have to explore all possible options, there is no evidence whatsoever to show this is what will be government policy.
You are never going to accept that as you have a closed mind. It is almost as if you want it to happen as you presumably Feel it will improve the chances of securing the utopia you crave. |
You're making quite a big aspersion there...
I acknowledge the need to look at a multitude of options, I just do not accept that potentially penalising public workers who have been asked to put themselves in harms way is an acceptable option to even look into.
If that's what you mean by having a "closed mind" then sure.
You have no idea what I "crave" don't be such a berk. | | | |
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