| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? 21:53 - Jul 29 with 5642 views | pointofblue |
The key aspects to be fair should be in place at every club - a set approach to play, only signing players which fit the model and have the right character, hiring managers and coaches who will meet this model... but should we also follow the B Team model which Brentford have employed (and I think Huddersfield wee at the very least considering it too).
The argument is any shining lights of the young age bracket get picked up by big clubs whilst any which miss the first run of the net are taken from the smaller sides with a nominal fee paid. The academy system is now weighted, as is much of football, to aid the richest clubs to the detriment of the poorest ones.
Brentford, quite understandably, decided that this made an academy a difficult outlay as it wasn’t really meeting requirements, bringing through players of an adequate standard. Instead they decided to scout and sign young players released from the richer academies who met the aforementioned style of play and attitude requirements. This, accompanied with a strong scouting network abroad has brought them consistent success in the upper echelons of the Championship and they’re, again, one match from the Premier League.
As much as it pains me to say it is this approach we need to take? Widen our scouting network to encompass the top side’s Under 23 teams and look for bargains abroad? Firstly is it cheaper than trying to maintain an academy and secondly would it be more successful? Or is the academy still the way we should be approaching things, bringing players through and - as we well might with Woolfenden and Downes - look to profit on those we can keep hold of and come good? |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 22:38 - Jul 29 with 4750 views | davblue |
Their recruitment is outstanding over the last 3 or 4 years and its a model we should be following. The academy side not so much for me we need to keep it. |  | | |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 22:41 - Jul 29 with 4745 views | pointofblue |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 22:38 - Jul 29 by davblue |
Their recruitment is outstanding over the last 3 or 4 years and its a model we should be following. The academy side not so much for me we need to keep it. |
Dare I say it, that’s more like the Norwich model - supplement academy players with canny signings from abroad. | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 23:35 - Jul 29 with 4666 views | Libero |
FFS, how many times are we going to see posts like these rise up?
The only good thing about our sad little club is our Academy, anyone that’s happy to abolish it needs to give their head a wobble. |  | | |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 07:56 - Jul 30 with 4509 views | itfcjoe |
No, we shouldn't abolish the academy - we are in a totally different situation to them geographically and it is a key part of the community (and is producing good players) |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 08:28 - Jul 30 with 4455 views | BlueRaider |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 07:56 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
No, we shouldn't abolish the academy - we are in a totally different situation to them geographically and it is a key part of the community (and is producing good players) |
Yes, it was the geography that was stuffing them regarding the academy. The rest of their approach looks good to follow though | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 08:33 - Jul 30 with 4435 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 07:56 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
No, we shouldn't abolish the academy - we are in a totally different situation to them geographically and it is a key part of the community (and is producing good players) |
It's a no brainer whilst we keep producing good players that are in and around the first team squad. I do wonder how many youngsters getting poached will be Evans tipping point though. Do you sense that those around the academy think it's becoming harder and harder to keep the best prospects at the club? | | | |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 08:44 - Jul 30 with 4405 views | Guthrum |
They say they've abolished their academy, whereas in reality they've reconstituted it in a different form - the equivalent of a college of Further Education which takes in pupils at the age of 16 and completes their schooling. All they've done is cut out the early years stuff, relying on getting sufficient quality from those teenage scholars discarded by their larger neighbours.
The difficulty with us doing that is we have no nearby large clubs to feed off in that respect. It's a bit different asking a 15- or 16-year old to travel to another area of London for training (without necessarily needing to change schools) compared with enticing them 70 miles out into the countryside, let alone from further afield. |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 08:52 - Jul 30 with 4386 views | Guthrum |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 22:41 - Jul 29 by pointofblue |
Dare I say it, that’s more like the Norwich model - supplement academy players with canny signings from abroad. |
Yes. Also the way we have done it in the more distant past.
However, Norwich's record, while successful with Pukki, was not so much so with van Wolfswinkel. We've had duds from abroad as well as our great Dutchmen.
I'm not sure there is any cast iron method of gaining success in football without a large slice of good fortune, probably combined with some incisive judgement of character in recruitment. | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 08:57 - Jul 30 with 4370 views | Swansea_Blue |
Scrapping an academy isn't necessarily the key to success. If we did it, we'd just be crap without an academy.
The element of the Brentford model we should follow is having people running the club who know what they are doing. |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 09:39 - Jul 30 with 4305 views | monty_radio |
Whatever the pros and cons of following this model at the expense of our academy it's not a possibility for our club. We've been crying out for years for a credible plan and, more especially, the staff who could implement it. Evans would need to rethink a whole structure that would require no more old-school management and various levels of highly professional and knowledgeable staff that wouldn't come cheap. Meanwhile, back on Planet Portman: deciding to paint the turnstiles took a year or two. | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:00 - Jul 30 with 4264 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
We are producing good players again from the academy, and as long as that conveyor belt continues I think it is the fundamentals behind the future of the club. Not only will it allow us to mould and develop better players than we are realistically going to buy, they also become an asset we will probably get consistent good money for in the future.
Would prefer to supplement them will better signings, even in the free market further afield as Brentford do (and Norwich). |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:03 - Jul 30 with 4263 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:07 - Jul 30 with 4250 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The 'Brentford model' is nothing new and has been done before - most notably by Portsmouth in the 60's who scrapped their youth set up to concentrate on signings.... and led Mick MIlls to join Town.
Any new model, just like the Huddersfield/Norwich model looks good wheile it works - and looks a tad dud when it doesn't.
Ultimately no model is sustainable - they rise and fall by a mix of serendipity and the performance of those in place at the time.... that's why the fortunes of virtually all clubs are cyclic.... it matters not what they do, eventually they will rise or fall due to circumstance.
Thee problem with any model is that it takes interest from the top - which is conspiculously absent at Town. | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:09 - Jul 30 with 4239 views | Coco |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 23:35 - Jul 29 by Libero |
FFS, how many times are we going to see posts like these rise up?
The only good thing about our sad little club is our Academy, anyone that’s happy to abolish it needs to give their head a wobble. |
what happened to the Charlton model?
Swansea model?
Southampton model?
The German model?
The Adkins diet?
The only model we need, is the Ipswich model - 1969—1982, 1994—2002 |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:25 - Jul 30 with 4222 views | BlueBadger |
The much-vaunted Brentford Model is hugely dependent on Getting It Right in the transfer market EVERY SINGLE WINDOW, so you can keep selling big and reinvesting. One bad summer could potentially bring the whole edifice down. It's very 'eggs in one basket'. |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:27 - Jul 30 with 4220 views | Radlett_blue |
The Brentford model is interesting & I wouldn't be disappointed if Town followed it. Only problem is, you need an owner with football nous to build a proper scouting network& Evans has none of that. Evans also apparently likes our academy, presumably because the sale of Wickham has put it in the black for a few years. Mings, whom we also sold for a big fee, was more a Brentford type of signing. If we had a proper football strategy, a player like Hourihane would have been retained & developed, rather than slipping through the net. |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 11:30 - Jul 30 with 4147 views | Libero |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:27 - Jul 30 by Radlett_blue |
The Brentford model is interesting & I wouldn't be disappointed if Town followed it. Only problem is, you need an owner with football nous to build a proper scouting network& Evans has none of that. Evans also apparently likes our academy, presumably because the sale of Wickham has put it in the black for a few years. Mings, whom we also sold for a big fee, was more a Brentford type of signing. If we had a proper football strategy, a player like Hourihane would have been retained & developed, rather than slipping through the net. |
Mings was a Brentford type signing? How?
I can't think of a single Brentford player that's been signed from non league and sold on for big money, Brentford don't have the patent on buying low and selling high... | | | |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:00 - Jul 30 with 4116 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
The academy issue is not comparable.
You have to go 40 miles North and about 70 miles West to find a club that has better resources or is bigger than we are still.
That means if the next Kieron Dyer or Matthew Upson are kicking about in this area then we are in the driving seat.
The same player living next door to Griffin Park is a tube ride away from Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, Fulham, QPR, the list goes on.
We should have made a hell of a lot more of the European scouting though. Like Brentford do and like Celtic do, where they take advantage of Championship star quality players who can be bought for £300,000 and are on £1,000 a week.
I don't know how expensive it would be to have a decent European scout but it strikes me we could pay them a good salary, buy them a house in the middle of Europe and pay for their travel all over the globe for a year and it would still cost less than we'd pay for the wages of a League One journeyman we'd happily have on the books. [Post edited 30 Jul 2020 12:07]
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:06 - Jul 30 with 4101 views | thatdamgood89 |
You can 100% do a Brentford while also having an academy. I was in a presentation a couple of years ago about their recruitment strategy and the process they use.
A different world from Ipswich.
It's all data. data, data. Where the player will be in 12, 24 months time etc
Over the last two years, they have signed one player over 27 years of age for a reason.
Ipswich meanwhile signed 8 in the over 27 categories.
Data from here, Not a Brentford fan lol transfermarket.co.uk |  |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:14 - Jul 30 with 4078 views | BlueBadger |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:00 - Jul 30 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
The academy issue is not comparable.
You have to go 40 miles North and about 70 miles West to find a club that has better resources or is bigger than we are still.
That means if the next Kieron Dyer or Matthew Upson are kicking about in this area then we are in the driving seat.
The same player living next door to Griffin Park is a tube ride away from Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, Fulham, QPR, the list goes on.
We should have made a hell of a lot more of the European scouting though. Like Brentford do and like Celtic do, where they take advantage of Championship star quality players who can be bought for £300,000 and are on £1,000 a week.
I don't know how expensive it would be to have a decent European scout but it strikes me we could pay them a good salary, buy them a house in the middle of Europe and pay for their travel all over the globe for a year and it would still cost less than we'd pay for the wages of a League One journeyman we'd happily have on the books. [Post edited 30 Jul 2020 12:07]
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We'e not had a decent scouting network in Europe since Burley's departure in my view. It seems utterly short-sighted and, as you suggest, ultimately wasteful. | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:19 - Jul 30 with 4074 views | Libero |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:14 - Jul 30 by BlueBadger |
We'e not had a decent scouting network in Europe since Burley's departure in my view. It seems utterly short-sighted and, as you suggest, ultimately wasteful. |
Zondervan was our last European scout in the mould being suggested, wasn't he?
I think there's room for both a data driven model and a Zondervan like individual with boots on the ground, so to speak. | | | |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:21 - Jul 30 with 4072 views | BlueBadger |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:19 - Jul 30 by Libero |
Zondervan was our last European scout in the mould being suggested, wasn't he?
I think there's room for both a data driven model and a Zondervan like individual with boots on the ground, so to speak. |
Realistically, I think you probably need a blend of both. Like in healthcare, you look at the numbers and you look from the 'end of the bed' and make your mind up from there. | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:32 - Jul 30 with 4033 views | thatdamgood89 |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:21 - Jul 30 by BlueBadger |
Realistically, I think you probably need a blend of both. Like in healthcare, you look at the numbers and you look from the 'end of the bed' and make your mind up from there. |
BlueBadger beat me to the punch but is spot on. A traditional scout ( hey we have a really good one in Bowman just doing the gardening ) and then a data-driven deal. It's also all about pipeline.
Jackson leaving today should not be the issue because the club has reports on reports. The next striker making year on year gains should already be on the radar.
Proactive not reactive recruitment
Peterborough does it so well.
Brentford have done it slightly better | |
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| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:45 - Jul 30 with 4002 views | longtimefan |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 10:09 - Jul 30 by Coco |
what happened to the Charlton model?
Swansea model?
Southampton model?
The German model?
The Adkins diet?
The only model we need, is the Ipswich model - 1969—1982, 1994—2002 |
“The only model we need, is the Ipswich model - 1969—1982, 1994—2002“
Make that 2002 (Jan - May). The Aug - Dec period is pretty representative of recent years! | | | |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 16:31 - Jul 30 with 3880 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Is it time to follow the Brentford model? on 12:45 - Jul 30 by longtimefan |
“The only model we need, is the Ipswich model - 1969—1982, 1994—2002“
Make that 2002 (Jan - May). The Aug - Dec period is pretty representative of recent years! |
I'd agree with most of that except there was an even more successful model in place in the late 50's early 60s.
And if you cast your mind back to the Sheepy model of 1994-2002 it led to insvolvency and ruin - and ultimately where the club is today. | |
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