| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:09 - Sep 16 with 3113 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Erm yes. There is not much mention of the huge environmental cost of building the darn things in the first place when there are plently of perfectly usable cars on the second hand market that have already paid their dues to society.
Think of the nice warm feeling eco-warriors get from gliding along in their hybrid SUVs though - that is priceless |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:37 - Sep 16 with 3053 views | ipswich78 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:09 - Sep 16 by ElephantintheRoom |
Erm yes. There is not much mention of the huge environmental cost of building the darn things in the first place when there are plently of perfectly usable cars on the second hand market that have already paid their dues to society.
Think of the nice warm feeling eco-warriors get from gliding along in their hybrid SUVs though - that is priceless |
How is the environmental cost of building a PHEV vs an EV different? |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:39 - Sep 16 with 3054 views | Swansea_Blue |
Interesting spin on this, given the results of the 'real world' tests. What the article seems to say is that they offer about a 30% improvement on C02 footprint over petrol and diesel cars. That's not too bad; a step in the right direction.
I agree we need to be phasing out the internal combustion engine altogether though (or moving to hydrogen).
"According to this data-set the lifetime emissions of a plug-in hybrid average around 28 tonnes of CO2.
By comparison, the average petrol or diesel car is estimated to emit between 39 and 41 tonnes of CO2 from fuel during its lifetime, a conventional hybrid would typically emit more like 33 tonnes" [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 13:41]
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:41 - Sep 16 with 3041 views | ipswich78 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:09 - Sep 16 by ElephantintheRoom |
Erm yes. There is not much mention of the huge environmental cost of building the darn things in the first place when there are plently of perfectly usable cars on the second hand market that have already paid their dues to society.
Think of the nice warm feeling eco-warriors get from gliding along in their hybrid SUVs though - that is priceless |
I drive a PHEV... and yes I do get a warm fuzzy feeling as it still emits considerably less CO2 than an average ICE car.
I really find it bizarre why some people are so against what is deemed as progress and will use any opportunity to try and beat it down? It baffles me.
For those that just read the headline, this section is included and is kinda key:
According to this data-set the lifetime emissions of a plug-in hybrid average around 28 tonnes of CO2.
By comparison, the average petrol or diesel car is estimated to emit between 39 and 41 tonnes of CO2 from fuel during its lifetime, a conventional hybrid would typically emit more like 33 tonnes. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:52 - Sep 16 with 3013 views | hampstead_blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:09 - Sep 16 by ElephantintheRoom |
Erm yes. There is not much mention of the huge environmental cost of building the darn things in the first place when there are plently of perfectly usable cars on the second hand market that have already paid their dues to society.
Think of the nice warm feeling eco-warriors get from gliding along in their hybrid SUVs though - that is priceless |
I get tap for driving a Prodrive Impreza.
"It's a gas guzzler"......rollocks. It was built in 2005, weighs nothing, has done 127000 miles and will still be churning out 0-60 in not much long after some ugly Hybrid has been built and recycled.
We are also looking to buy a V12 engine car. Same principle.
Keep cars on the road rather than keep us buying more new ones. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:10 - Sep 16 with 2989 views | StokieBlue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:39 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
Interesting spin on this, given the results of the 'real world' tests. What the article seems to say is that they offer about a 30% improvement on C02 footprint over petrol and diesel cars. That's not too bad; a step in the right direction.
I agree we need to be phasing out the internal combustion engine altogether though (or moving to hydrogen).
"According to this data-set the lifetime emissions of a plug-in hybrid average around 28 tonnes of CO2.
By comparison, the average petrol or diesel car is estimated to emit between 39 and 41 tonnes of CO2 from fuel during its lifetime, a conventional hybrid would typically emit more like 33 tonnes" [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 13:41]
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How would you make enough hydrogen to power the worlds consumption?
I agree it's something that could definitely work but it would need a dedicated scaling up of renewables just to create the hydrogen (essentially shifting power from one store to another: wind -> hydrogen).
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:16 - Sep 16 with 2979 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:10 - Sep 16 by StokieBlue |
How would you make enough hydrogen to power the worlds consumption?
I agree it's something that could definitely work but it would need a dedicated scaling up of renewables just to create the hydrogen (essentially shifting power from one store to another: wind -> hydrogen).
SB |
No idea. The automotive industry are putting a lot of time into hydrogen projects at the moment, but how realistic they will ultimately be I'm not sure. Lot of other issues as well aren't there, around cost and rare earth elements in the fuel cells, etc. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:17 - Sep 16 with 2978 views | giant_stow |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:41 - Sep 16 by ipswich78 |
I drive a PHEV... and yes I do get a warm fuzzy feeling as it still emits considerably less CO2 than an average ICE car.
I really find it bizarre why some people are so against what is deemed as progress and will use any opportunity to try and beat it down? It baffles me.
For those that just read the headline, this section is included and is kinda key:
According to this data-set the lifetime emissions of a plug-in hybrid average around 28 tonnes of CO2.
By comparison, the average petrol or diesel car is estimated to emit between 39 and 41 tonnes of CO2 from fuel during its lifetime, a conventional hybrid would typically emit more like 33 tonnes. |
Not asking in an argumentative way, but do we know how many tonnes of Co2 it costs to build a typical new car? |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:23 - Sep 16 with 2969 views | giant_stow |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:17 - Sep 16 by giant_stow |
Not asking in an argumentative way, but do we know how many tonnes of Co2 it costs to build a typical new car? |
I've googled it for myself because I'm that kind of guy:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-foo
So a small car might be ok, but not a big suv. According to that at least | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:27 - Sep 16 with 2963 views | MonkeyAlan |
I love the smell of petrol. |  | | |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:32 - Sep 16 with 2953 views | Swansea_Blue |
The way the figures drop out, it's certainly better environmentally to either keep cars or buy second hand. Or just drive less. I used to do easily 20-24k per year; but then moved locally to work and only do about 6-8k per year now. So cut emissions by 2/3rds overnight. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:35 - Sep 16 with 2949 views | giant_stow |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:32 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
The way the figures drop out, it's certainly better environmentally to either keep cars or buy second hand. Or just drive less. I used to do easily 20-24k per year; but then moved locally to work and only do about 6-8k per year now. So cut emissions by 2/3rds overnight. |
To link it to another thread, I guess its better for the environment to buy old cars / drive less, but for the capitalist economy measured by growth and not well-being, new eco cars rule. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:36 - Sep 16 with 2942 views | homer_123 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:32 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
The way the figures drop out, it's certainly better environmentally to either keep cars or buy second hand. Or just drive less. I used to do easily 20-24k per year; but then moved locally to work and only do about 6-8k per year now. So cut emissions by 2/3rds overnight. |
Yep, spot on Swans. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:38 - Sep 16 with 2934 views | homer_123 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:27 - Sep 16 by MonkeyAlan |
I love the smell of petrol. |
Not at all - more my point being that we are, yet again, being mislead. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:43 - Sep 16 with 2927 views | BlueBadger |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:27 - Sep 16 by MonkeyAlan |
I love the smell of petrol. |
Well, I'm sure it's come as surprise to all of us that you're a petrol-sniffer. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:47 - Sep 16 with 2910 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:27 - Sep 16 by MonkeyAlan |
I love the smell of petrol. |
...in the morning? |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:48 - Sep 16 with 2906 views | ipswich78 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:17 - Sep 16 by giant_stow |
Not asking in an argumentative way, but do we know how many tonnes of Co2 it costs to build a typical new car? |
Didn't take that as argumentative at all and it's a very fair question. I am not going to remotely pretend I am smart enough to understand the environmental impact across the whole lifecyle of ANY vehicle.
Unfortunately like many people I have to rely on what I can research and from that research understand!
My stance on driving any vehicle is that I can really influence the impact on the planet by my use of the vehicle. I drive a PHEV, circa 65% of my driving of said vehicle is done on electric. The electric I use is renewable (either my own Solar or at my work where we use a renewable supplier).
It's so hard to try and do the right thing OR even think you are doing the right thing. But, even with my limited knowledge I would safely bet a LOT of money it's better overall for the environment that a diesel / petrol car. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:52 - Sep 16 with 2899 views | ipswich78 |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:32 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
The way the figures drop out, it's certainly better environmentally to either keep cars or buy second hand. Or just drive less. I used to do easily 20-24k per year; but then moved locally to work and only do about 6-8k per year now. So cut emissions by 2/3rds overnight. |
I guess there's two arguments here. Environmental impact at the point of build vs daily use.
There's little argument to be had that on daily use en electric motor is a huge amount better than an ICE equivalent.
The other argument is initial cost (environmental) vs on-going use.
It's a minefield!!
But as you say, there is nothing better than simply using a car less and people now working from home will have a massive impact on that. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 14:52]
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:54 - Sep 16 with 2889 views | giant_stow |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:48 - Sep 16 by ipswich78 |
Didn't take that as argumentative at all and it's a very fair question. I am not going to remotely pretend I am smart enough to understand the environmental impact across the whole lifecyle of ANY vehicle.
Unfortunately like many people I have to rely on what I can research and from that research understand!
My stance on driving any vehicle is that I can really influence the impact on the planet by my use of the vehicle. I drive a PHEV, circa 65% of my driving of said vehicle is done on electric. The electric I use is renewable (either my own Solar or at my work where we use a renewable supplier).
It's so hard to try and do the right thing OR even think you are doing the right thing. But, even with my limited knowledge I would safely bet a LOT of money it's better overall for the environment that a diesel / petrol car. |
Good good, have to tread carefully these days, but glad you didn’t take it that way.
I spose where eco cars are definitely better is on particulates emissions (assuming their owners have an eco electricity supply too) | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:56 - Sep 16 with 2887 views | Herbivore |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 13:52 - Sep 16 by hampstead_blue |
I get tap for driving a Prodrive Impreza.
"It's a gas guzzler"......rollocks. It was built in 2005, weighs nothing, has done 127000 miles and will still be churning out 0-60 in not much long after some ugly Hybrid has been built and recycled.
We are also looking to buy a V12 engine car. Same principle.
Keep cars on the road rather than keep us buying more new ones. |
We've already established you don't really care about the environment though so not sure this thread is really for you. |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:56 - Sep 16 with 2885 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 15:01 - Sep 16 with 2870 views | hampstead_blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:16 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
No idea. The automotive industry are putting a lot of time into hydrogen projects at the moment, but how realistic they will ultimately be I'm not sure. Lot of other issues as well aren't there, around cost and rare earth elements in the fuel cells, etc. |
Toyota have gone big on Hydrogen.
We had a tour around their UK training facility. The new hydrogen cars are something they think will be highly desired.
For the Tokyo Olympics they had a huge fleet of hydrogen powered cars on tap. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 15:01 - Sep 16 with 2870 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:52 - Sep 16 by ipswich78 |
I guess there's two arguments here. Environmental impact at the point of build vs daily use.
There's little argument to be had that on daily use en electric motor is a huge amount better than an ICE equivalent.
The other argument is initial cost (environmental) vs on-going use.
It's a minefield!!
But as you say, there is nothing better than simply using a car less and people now working from home will have a massive impact on that. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 14:52]
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Several arguments I suppose. Sustainability versus driving (pun intended!) the economy through new car sales. Benefits of CO2 reductions versus safety (battery fires are evil things that can't be put out easily). Or CO2 benefits versus other environmental & social costs of mining the metals in the batteries.
It is a minefield.
I'm for EV, but I'll probably only get one when the current car dies. I wouldn't swap out a newish car for EV just as a matter of principle. | |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 15:06 - Sep 16 with 2851 views | hampstead_blue |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:56 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
We've already established you don't really care about the environment though so not sure this thread is really for you. |
Move along Marx. In your warped sense of the world you will not allow private ownership so not sure why you are here. Your marxist utopia will dictate what and how we move around.
I'm hugely keen to see how technology will develop transport.
Keeping older cars on the road is a big factor in reducing one's carbon footprint. If you run an old car for a nominal mileage each year your impact is much lower than buying a new car and running it the same. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 15:10 - Sep 16 with 2832 views | BryanPlug |
| Plug in Hybrids - not as environmentally friendly as advertised? on 14:16 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue |
No idea. The automotive industry are putting a lot of time into hydrogen projects at the moment, but how realistic they will ultimately be I'm not sure. Lot of other issues as well aren't there, around cost and rare earth elements in the fuel cells, etc. |
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