| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion 09:28 - Mar 30 with 3998 views | wkj |
Getting business done early and maximising the preseason for training and preparation. I am a firm believer of the stories that preseason games tell, and it was clear we were not going to be very comfortable last summer based on the quality on show at some of the friendlies (more so the later ones).
Let's hope that McKenna gets what he wants, as this team probably needs a proper preseason together, as they really didn't have one last year. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:37 - Mar 30 with 3082 views | Kieran_Knows |
In fairness, every manager up and down the country says that. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:38 - Mar 30 with 3065 views | Fixed_It |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:37 - Mar 30 by Kieran_Knows |
In fairness, every manager up and down the country says that. |
Ah yes. But how do they say it? [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 9:39]
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 with 3067 views | itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 with 3046 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:37 - Mar 30 by Kieran_Knows |
In fairness, every manager up and down the country says that. |
They do, but nothing about McK seems cliché. It is clear he wants most of his work to be done on the turf rather than in the boardroom. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:44 - Mar 30 with 3005 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
What needed to be done last season was done. The only mistakes I think I can comfortably point at with players on the books were Gibbs and Wilson. As Col U have proven this season, we were not a team built on players who were among the best in league 1. It was clear to see that Chambers suddenly buckled in the middle of the season prior, through no fault of his own - so, not a lot else could have been done. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:48 - Mar 30 with 2965 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
I remember you voicing your concerns about that last year and being shouted down for it. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:57 - Mar 30 with 2911 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:44 - Mar 30 by wkj |
What needed to be done last season was done. The only mistakes I think I can comfortably point at with players on the books were Gibbs and Wilson. As Col U have proven this season, we were not a team built on players who were among the best in league 1. It was clear to see that Chambers suddenly buckled in the middle of the season prior, through no fault of his own - so, not a lot else could have been done. |
There were a huge number of players out of contract, so there was always going to be an overhaul but it never needed to be so severe - demolition man used that excuse to cover his own failings to get anything out of last years squad.
We could easily have retained 5-6 more players, and signed 5-6 less and we wouldn't be close to being any worse of.
There's no way McKenna would have come in and did what Cook did, and Ashton shouldn't be able to pass all the blame on as he was the boss at the end of the day. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:01 - Mar 30 with 2879 views | Hackneyblueboy |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
Hopefully we will look back at that overhaul as a necessary one though and one that eventually leads us to promotion out of this league. If we hadn't had got rid of all that deadwood we probably would have just postponed that to this summer. Needed to be done.
If you look at the squad now, as KM has noted in interviews it's in a very solid place for the next transfer window. The Core of Walton, 4 CBs, Burns, Morsy, Evans, Aluko, Chaplin, KVY etc is very solid in this league. If we keep Jackson, Celina, Thompson and have the likes of El Miz, Edwards, Ndaba, Penny etc on the fringes we're in a very good place IMO. I think we're probably looking at 4-6 signings this summer. Quality over quantity. [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 10:03]
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:10 - Mar 30 with 2795 views | Sharkey |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:44 - Mar 30 by wkj |
What needed to be done last season was done. The only mistakes I think I can comfortably point at with players on the books were Gibbs and Wilson. As Col U have proven this season, we were not a team built on players who were among the best in league 1. It was clear to see that Chambers suddenly buckled in the middle of the season prior, through no fault of his own - so, not a lot else could have been done. |
McKenna: "But, of course, as you’re building a squad, you also need that mix of a couple of experienced players who set a good example and have been through the different levels of football and can lead some of the younger players." Sounds like he might have had a bit more time for one or two of those jettisoned. (Skuse and Sears, perhaps.) |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:14 - Mar 30 with 2773 views | Garv |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
Long term though you have to think it will end up having been worth it.
Yes, we probably could have got more players in before the first day of the season. But would they have been Walton, Morsy, Celina etc?
Of course we'd have all wanted to go up this year and a settled squad from the start might have helped achieve that, but looking at us now with the players listed above plus others, not only do we look good for a promotion push but we should be in a position to compete well in the Championship.
Imagine we'd have snuck into the play offs and somehow won the play offs with last year's mob. We'd have needed a rebuild to have any hope in the league above. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:17 - Mar 30 with 2736 views | gordon |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:10 - Mar 30 by Sharkey |
McKenna: "But, of course, as you’re building a squad, you also need that mix of a couple of experienced players who set a good example and have been through the different levels of football and can lead some of the younger players." Sounds like he might have had a bit more time for one or two of those jettisoned. (Skuse and Sears, perhaps.) |
Think it was fair enough that we couldn't necessarily rely on the likes of Sears, Wilson, Judge, Chambers, Skuse, Bishop, Kenlock, Ndaba, Dobra or El Mizouni to be first-team regulars if we were aiming for promotion, it more just that some of them probably could have performed just as adequately as backup as Penney, Pigott, Edwards, Carroll, Burgess and Harper have done, & that the continuity and consistency from having some of them around the group would have had other benefits. |  | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:18 - Mar 30 with 2734 views | chicoazul |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
In the one hand you’re correct but in the other pension funds, especially Yanqui ones, usually have a minimum five year horizon to realise profits on an investment. I think this year was all about putting the executive and back office together while taking a punt on Cook who, let’s not forget, would have been on the usual generous Evans terms for a manager. Clearly the latter wasn’t working so they made the change, next year has to be about delivery though. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:18 - Mar 30 with 2722 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:10 - Mar 30 by Sharkey |
McKenna: "But, of course, as you’re building a squad, you also need that mix of a couple of experienced players who set a good example and have been through the different levels of football and can lead some of the younger players." Sounds like he might have had a bit more time for one or two of those jettisoned. (Skuse and Sears, perhaps.) |
I don't think we would have been comfortable in the top 6 with either approach. Following the sh*t show that was Hurst's recruitment - I wasn't especially comfortable with last summer's business either, but I doubt we'd have faired any better with a phased approach - Cook clearly couldn't manage those players (or the new ones).
It would have taken a good dose of luck or extremely generous opposition for us to challenge top 6 this season unless Cook somehow managed to get a good starting XI in with about 4 weeks to spare... even then it would have required him operating as a good manager. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:23 - Mar 30 with 2691 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:10 - Mar 30 by Sharkey |
McKenna: "But, of course, as you’re building a squad, you also need that mix of a couple of experienced players who set a good example and have been through the different levels of football and can lead some of the younger players." Sounds like he might have had a bit more time for one or two of those jettisoned. (Skuse and Sears, perhaps.) |
Skuse only played 1 game for us last season and at 35 you just can't give another deal out for me.
The only players who were senior and could argue a case really where Chambers and Judge as they were the only ones playing regularly. LC could have been a decent person to have around as a bridge to this season but Judge looked to struggle and would have wanted to play every week at his age.
This is what i mean mainly about the size of the overhaul being unnecessary - players like Chambers, SKuse, Sears, Judge, Nsiala and many others were all out of contract. The squad was ripe and ready to be overhauled, but yet we went so much further with it | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:27 - Mar 30 with 2672 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:14 - Mar 30 by Garv |
Long term though you have to think it will end up having been worth it.
Yes, we probably could have got more players in before the first day of the season. But would they have been Walton, Morsy, Celina etc?
Of course we'd have all wanted to go up this year and a settled squad from the start might have helped achieve that, but looking at us now with the players listed above plus others, not only do we look good for a promotion push but we should be in a position to compete well in the Championship.
Imagine we'd have snuck into the play offs and somehow won the play offs with last year's mob. We'd have needed a rebuild to have any hope in the league above. |
Obviously the Walton deal has been tied up now which is great - but realistically 2 of the 3 you mentioned there were signed as loan players for a side who was in the relegation zone at the time to try and get promotion - by the way the season has played out it was already too late at that point from where we were - Morsy and Celina weren't available (Suspension and Covid) until basically the beginning of October when we were 20% of the way through the season.
I think you could put a hybrid of last season and this seasons squad together which would have allowed greater continuity in the squad but the increased quality in the team that would have helped greatly at the start of the season | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:30 - Mar 30 with 2643 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:23 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
Skuse only played 1 game for us last season and at 35 you just can't give another deal out for me.
The only players who were senior and could argue a case really where Chambers and Judge as they were the only ones playing regularly. LC could have been a decent person to have around as a bridge to this season but Judge looked to struggle and would have wanted to play every week at his age.
This is what i mean mainly about the size of the overhaul being unnecessary - players like Chambers, SKuse, Sears, Judge, Nsiala and many others were all out of contract. The squad was ripe and ready to be overhauled, but yet we went so much further with it |
The other side to that is, had Chambers stayed, would Janoi have been on his way? I doubt we would have kept both. Janoi is now one of the outsiders for player of the season and has been crucial in many of our results. As I said, it was very obvious that age suddenly did a number of Chambers the prior season, as a result it was right for all parties that he moved on, although Cook didn't afford him much dignity, granted.
I would assume that Judge was probably on very good money with us too, if that was the case, it wouldn't have been worth keeping him as a bit-part player unless he took a huge cut - something he had no choice but to accept by being released.
As I said, I don't think a phased approach or bombsquad approach was ever going to work for Cook, not with 1 season to be the optics for success. With the exception of Gibb's contract and seemingly no effort to keep Wilson on the books, I think Cook/Ashton made the correct decision as part of a two-season plan. If the plan was success in one season it changes the narrative quite a lot. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:34 - Mar 30 with 2614 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:30 - Mar 30 by wkj |
The other side to that is, had Chambers stayed, would Janoi have been on his way? I doubt we would have kept both. Janoi is now one of the outsiders for player of the season and has been crucial in many of our results. As I said, it was very obvious that age suddenly did a number of Chambers the prior season, as a result it was right for all parties that he moved on, although Cook didn't afford him much dignity, granted.
I would assume that Judge was probably on very good money with us too, if that was the case, it wouldn't have been worth keeping him as a bit-part player unless he took a huge cut - something he had no choice but to accept by being released.
As I said, I don't think a phased approach or bombsquad approach was ever going to work for Cook, not with 1 season to be the optics for success. With the exception of Gibb's contract and seemingly no effort to keep Wilson on the books, I think Cook/Ashton made the correct decision as part of a two-season plan. If the plan was success in one season it changes the narrative quite a lot. |
I think the loan signings made when in the relegation zone at end of window make it a 1 year plan whatever rhetoric is put around it. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:35 - Mar 30 with 2592 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:34 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
I think the loan signings made when in the relegation zone at end of window make it a 1 year plan whatever rhetoric is put around it. |
It was an impossible task then, under Cook. Maybe if McKenna came in sooner he'd be able to do more with his game management skills than Cook did - but there was absolutely no right answer last season - the level of work needed on the squad was way too deep. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:45 - Mar 30 with 2532 views | itfcjoe |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:35 - Mar 30 by wkj |
It was an impossible task then, under Cook. Maybe if McKenna came in sooner he'd be able to do more with his game management skills than Cook did - but there was absolutely no right answer last season - the level of work needed on the squad was way too deep. |
There was enough in that squad to get us into the top 6 - McGuinness, Dozzell and Downes playing regularly in the Champ. Woolfie, Wilson, Parrott playing well in this league. Norwood, Jackson have goals and performances in them
In Cook's tenure all we had to do was beat the dross in the league which we had consistently done - 6 more points from the 6 games vs Rochdale, WImbledon (twice), MK, Charlton and Northampton where we didn't score a single goal and we'd have made it (before losing to any decent side we played in top 6)
Cook totally screwed up two seasons for us, and you don't get many opportunities to nab a promotion | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:46 - Mar 30 with 2529 views | solemio |
Bobby Robson always used to say that the actual results of pre-season were relatively unimportant, although the games weren't.
If my memory serves me correctly, some of Bobby's best seasons followed poor pre-season results. I can no longer give chapter and verse to this! | | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:54 - Mar 30 with 2459 views | wkj |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:45 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
There was enough in that squad to get us into the top 6 - McGuinness, Dozzell and Downes playing regularly in the Champ. Woolfie, Wilson, Parrott playing well in this league. Norwood, Jackson have goals and performances in them
In Cook's tenure all we had to do was beat the dross in the league which we had consistently done - 6 more points from the 6 games vs Rochdale, WImbledon (twice), MK, Charlton and Northampton where we didn't score a single goal and we'd have made it (before losing to any decent side we played in top 6)
Cook totally screwed up two seasons for us, and you don't get many opportunities to nab a promotion |
There was potential to do well, but Doz and Downes weren't exactly going to be easy to keep, Parrott would have been part of the recruitment for the next season, not retention from the last.
There was no chance we were going to get into the top 6 with Cook in charge, no matter what we did. | |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 11:09 - Mar 30 with 2371 views | Vic |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:57 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
There were a huge number of players out of contract, so there was always going to be an overhaul but it never needed to be so severe - demolition man used that excuse to cover his own failings to get anything out of last years squad.
We could easily have retained 5-6 more players, and signed 5-6 less and we wouldn't be close to being any worse of.
There's no way McKenna would have come in and did what Cook did, and Ashton shouldn't be able to pass all the blame on as he was the boss at the end of the day. |
I agree and disagree with you Joe!
Totally agree that the squad didn't need to total destruction Cook gave it. There were players here that would have done a job and helped a better transition. Chambers is one such player - probably not a regular first teamer, but would have aided cohesion, etc.
However, the die had been cast before Ashton sat at his desk - to a degree his hands were tied. New manager, new club, new owners - was he in a position to have stopped it? I'm not sure; it would certainly have been a major battle had he tried to. So I think blame can't easily be laid at Ashton's door. Overall he's done infinitely a lot more good than harm. |  |
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 11:51 - Mar 30 with 2233 views | Sharkey |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 10:23 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
Skuse only played 1 game for us last season and at 35 you just can't give another deal out for me.
The only players who were senior and could argue a case really where Chambers and Judge as they were the only ones playing regularly. LC could have been a decent person to have around as a bridge to this season but Judge looked to struggle and would have wanted to play every week at his age.
This is what i mean mainly about the size of the overhaul being unnecessary - players like Chambers, SKuse, Sears, Judge, Nsiala and many others were all out of contract. The squad was ripe and ready to be overhauled, but yet we went so much further with it |
I'm not disagreeing (I have no axe to grind here), but for what it's worth Skuse was right when he said last year was a freak year for him, injury-wise. The only games he's missed this season have been for head injuries. (Twice in a month he picked up a head wound, I think.)
He was 36 yesterday , and there was a lot of 'love' for him on the U's facebook page, and I'm sure most people here will be pleased about that. | | | |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 12:14 - Mar 30 with 2145 views | PhilTWTD |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 09:40 - Mar 30 by itfcjoe |
It is something every manager says, but for me last pre season was a disaster if we wanted to go up this year as we turned up on 1st day of pre season with 11 players in first team squad which included Ndaba, El Mizouni and Dobra who weren't really first teamers.
I wonder how Mark Ashton has sold this season to the American owners, because whilst he has got lots right - he oversaw the total destruction and rebuild which has undoubtedly held us back. |
While that's obviously right re pre-season being a bit of a mess with most players not being at the club until well into it - and I think they realised that would be the case hence the talk about not expecting a fast start etc - not many of the players who have departed - Dozzell and Downes aside - have made much of a case for it being bad decision to let them go, have they? Drinan might have been kept and loaned out, Folami maybe as well, although I think he was basically already gone a while beforehand, but don't think too many have pulled up many trees.
Just seen someone else's post on this and they mentioned Gibbs, but I'm not sure he was offloaded in the manner of most of the rest of them, it was more a contract thing and the club having allowed a situation to develop.
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| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 12:29 - Mar 30 with 2077 views | hype313 |
| Something I particularly enjoyed about McKenna's recruitment discussion on 11:09 - Mar 30 by Vic |
I agree and disagree with you Joe!
Totally agree that the squad didn't need to total destruction Cook gave it. There were players here that would have done a job and helped a better transition. Chambers is one such player - probably not a regular first teamer, but would have aided cohesion, etc.
However, the die had been cast before Ashton sat at his desk - to a degree his hands were tied. New manager, new club, new owners - was he in a position to have stopped it? I'm not sure; it would certainly have been a major battle had he tried to. So I think blame can't easily be laid at Ashton's door. Overall he's done infinitely a lot more good than harm. |
I actually think Cook's outlook would have been vastly different had Evans not sold up, no way he would have ripped apart that squad without the knowledge that the club was going to be under new owners and increased finances.
Just looked like he threw the baby out with the bathwater knowing full well he could cast of and throw a load under the bus with new investment coming, therefore highlighting their deficiencies as opposed to his.
I do wonder where we would be with more of a transitional period in the first 9 games, rather than a bunch of strangers thrown together, those early games have essentially killed this season, bar a miracle.
I'm also still annoyed by the fact that there was a chance Downes might have stayed if Cook hadn't been such an arrogant prat. [Post edited 30 Mar 2022 12:30]
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