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We get the (pro) refs we as a society deserve innit. It all trickles down from the top in terms of abuse, and players really need booking more when they get aggro with refs. One of the reasons I never liked Keane as a player (let alone a manager, arf) despite his undoubted gifts. His behaviour was appalling and whitewashed in large sections of the media and terraces with the nonsense competitive spirit excuse.
Abuse of refs at the top level has to be cracked down on. That influences behaviour lower down.
Heard a discussion on R5 the other week where someone (a former pro, I belive) was saying that players cannot be expected to keep control of their behaviour in the heat of the moment. They seem to manage it in other sports, including aggressive ones like rugby and boxing. Why are footballers givrn leeway for being so emotionally feeble?
We get the (pro) refs we as a society deserve innit. It all trickles down from the top in terms of abuse, and players really need booking more when they get aggro with refs. One of the reasons I never liked Keane as a player (let alone a manager, arf) despite his undoubted gifts. His behaviour was appalling and whitewashed in large sections of the media and terraces with the nonsense competitive spirit excuse.
Last night (and I'm only using this as an example precisely because it was last night and the camer was on him at the time), Andy Robertson swore directly at the referee because a decision went against him and received no punishment whatsoever. I'm no snowflake when it comes to swearing (swearing in the appropriate context and setting can be very effective at getting your point across!), but letting players at the top get away with that constantly just gives licence for those further down the pyramid to do it, and worse, to poor old amateur refs that are basically just doing it for the love of the game. Crack down, consistently, at the top and good behaviour should (eventually) follow at lower levels.
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:10 - Feb 14 with 2230 views
Just seen a BBC story on 09:08 - Feb 14 by Guthrum
Abuse of refs at the top level has to be cracked down on. That influences behaviour lower down.
Heard a discussion on R5 the other week where someone (a former pro, I belive) was saying that players cannot be expected to keep control of their behaviour in the heat of the moment. They seem to manage it in other sports, including aggressive ones like rugby and boxing. Why are footballers givrn leeway for being so emotionally feeble?
Nonsense media whitewashing bollix innit. They can be expected to not swear at the ref in anger and if they can't control themselves send them off. It may take a few seasons but eventually players and managers and fans will get used to it.
Absolutely, it's terrible at lower levels, but the players are just doing what they see on TV every week.
Problem also is the refs get 0 support from higher levels, the number of reports one of friends has submitted only to be fobbed off is disturbing. He's giving up after this season, had enough of it after 6 years at step 6.
Just seen a BBC story on 09:12 - Feb 14 by FrimleyBlue
Absolutely, it's terrible at lower levels, but the players are just doing what they see on TV every week.
Problem also is the refs get 0 support from higher levels, the number of reports one of friends has submitted only to be fobbed off is disturbing. He's giving up after this season, had enough of it after 6 years at step 6.
And that is the obvious result of all the allowed abuse: fewer and fewer referees. Which means (and I am absolutely not saying this in a 'victim blaming' way), the standard of refereeing will inevitably suffer, leading to even more abuse, over the top scrutiny on TV by pundits, etc. A true viscious cycle.
Just seen a BBC story on 09:08 - Feb 14 by iamatractorboy
Last night (and I'm only using this as an example precisely because it was last night and the camer was on him at the time), Andy Robertson swore directly at the referee because a decision went against him and received no punishment whatsoever. I'm no snowflake when it comes to swearing (swearing in the appropriate context and setting can be very effective at getting your point across!), but letting players at the top get away with that constantly just gives licence for those further down the pyramid to do it, and worse, to poor old amateur refs that are basically just doing it for the love of the game. Crack down, consistently, at the top and good behaviour should (eventually) follow at lower levels.
Yes I saw that. If you did that at a local level youd be sent off with a healthy suspension to follow.
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exactly this innit ba (n/t) on 09:23 - Feb 14 with 2125 views
Just seen a BBC story on 09:19 - Feb 14 by iamatractorboy
And that is the obvious result of all the allowed abuse: fewer and fewer referees. Which means (and I am absolutely not saying this in a 'victim blaming' way), the standard of refereeing will inevitably suffer, leading to even more abuse, over the top scrutiny on TV by pundits, etc. A true viscious cycle.
Just seen a BBC story on 09:08 - Feb 14 by iamatractorboy
Last night (and I'm only using this as an example precisely because it was last night and the camer was on him at the time), Andy Robertson swore directly at the referee because a decision went against him and received no punishment whatsoever. I'm no snowflake when it comes to swearing (swearing in the appropriate context and setting can be very effective at getting your point across!), but letting players at the top get away with that constantly just gives licence for those further down the pyramid to do it, and worse, to poor old amateur refs that are basically just doing it for the love of the game. Crack down, consistently, at the top and good behaviour should (eventually) follow at lower levels.
I was about to mention this - as it reminded me of it. You could clearly see he was shouting at the ref to F off etc.
Booking all day long - and that would send the message to all the kids watching that its unacceptable
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:25 - Feb 14 with 2113 views
Why is it that ex-pros, and even semi-pros, go into refereeing? If they ‘know’ the game so we’ll, oughtn’t it be an obvious post-playing option.
Because an ex-pro would be wide open to accusations of bias from rival clubs which he played for. Or any club he may well have had a bust-up with at some point.
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:33 - Feb 14 with 2059 views
Just seen a BBC story on 09:08 - Feb 14 by iamatractorboy
Last night (and I'm only using this as an example precisely because it was last night and the camer was on him at the time), Andy Robertson swore directly at the referee because a decision went against him and received no punishment whatsoever. I'm no snowflake when it comes to swearing (swearing in the appropriate context and setting can be very effective at getting your point across!), but letting players at the top get away with that constantly just gives licence for those further down the pyramid to do it, and worse, to poor old amateur refs that are basically just doing it for the love of the game. Crack down, consistently, at the top and good behaviour should (eventually) follow at lower levels.
You are undoubtedly right but I fear nothing will be done. This argument has been put forward all my life (55) and not a thing has altered. Actually it's got worse. Mike the referee up, let the public hear the abuse and you watch the outcry, the sponsors start twitching when one of their stars calls the ref a c***. 10 minute sin bins for dissent and you would see an immediate change. Points deductions for poor dissent records. There are innumerable things the professional game could do which would benefit grass roots refs but the football authorities talk lots but do nothing. On a bit of a tangent but somewhat related, i watch a bit on Sunday League on a local field now and again when walking my dog. Often when they've gone there's a lot of sports drinks bottles discarded. Is this linked to the pros who just lob them to the ground? Would love to see the cameras zoom in on Pep and Klopp with their bin bag telling Haaland, Salah et al to tidy up and put it in the bin bag!
bluescouser
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:38 - Feb 14 with 2034 views
You are undoubtedly right but I fear nothing will be done. This argument has been put forward all my life (55) and not a thing has altered. Actually it's got worse. Mike the referee up, let the public hear the abuse and you watch the outcry, the sponsors start twitching when one of their stars calls the ref a c***. 10 minute sin bins for dissent and you would see an immediate change. Points deductions for poor dissent records. There are innumerable things the professional game could do which would benefit grass roots refs but the football authorities talk lots but do nothing. On a bit of a tangent but somewhat related, i watch a bit on Sunday League on a local field now and again when walking my dog. Often when they've gone there's a lot of sports drinks bottles discarded. Is this linked to the pros who just lob them to the ground? Would love to see the cameras zoom in on Pep and Klopp with their bin bag telling Haaland, Salah et al to tidy up and put it in the bin bag!
During the late 80s or early 90s a ref was actually wired-up with the abuse quite clear. Think the match involved arsenal and the FA were heavily criticised for allowing it. I was quite young but I remember that Saint and Greavsie mentioned that players have always abused refs and criticised the FA as well.
I can’t remember the name of the TV show.
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:43 - Feb 14 with 1969 views
You only have to see that Man Utd game the other day and Fernandes after nearly everything against them, is moaning at the ref. I'm not saying hes abusing him but it's very tiresome and became laughable the more the game went on. (other players and examples are available).
I'm surtprised there is even people who ref at the lower levels. the abuse they must get. It would take a strong person to do it.
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:46 - Feb 14 with 1944 views
Just seen a BBC story on 09:38 - Feb 14 by MattinLondon
During the late 80s or early 90s a ref was actually wired-up with the abuse quite clear. Think the match involved arsenal and the FA were heavily criticised for allowing it. I was quite young but I remember that Saint and Greavsie mentioned that players have always abused refs and criticised the FA as well.
I can’t remember the name of the TV show.
That was David Elleray wasn't it? Tony Adams basically followed him round all match giving him dog's abuse. Adams later referred to it in his autobiography with a lot of shame, if memory serves he said he was hammered at the time (still not an excuse mind you).
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:47 - Feb 14 with 1946 views
In my old job I ran an afternoon football session with either year 8/9 boys or year 9/10 boys depending on which group I had.
The 8/9 were just awful during games. Shouting whenever a decision went against them, screaming like toddlers, swearing and just generally being arseholes.
The 9/10 were actually much better, but they were a generally nice group.
It got to the point where I dreaded having to take the 8/9's as I knew it was going to be a battle. I think it may have been a reason why I looked and eventually took a new job (plus the fact that I needed a better paid job!).
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Just seen a BBC story on 09:51 - Feb 14 with 1909 views
Just seen a BBC story on 09:46 - Feb 14 by iamatractorboy
That was David Elleray wasn't it? Tony Adams basically followed him round all match giving him dog's abuse. Adams later referred to it in his autobiography with a lot of shame, if memory serves he said he was hammered at the time (still not an excuse mind you).
Was that the one when he accused the ref of being a cheat, to which ref responded "we may be crap but we don't cheat." Not sure a card was shown though, which sums it up. Fancy calling the ref a cheat and no action being taken. It's pretty ridiculous.
Just seen a BBC story on 09:38 - Feb 14 by MattinLondon
During the late 80s or early 90s a ref was actually wired-up with the abuse quite clear. Think the match involved arsenal and the FA were heavily criticised for allowing it. I was quite young but I remember that Saint and Greavsie mentioned that players have always abused refs and criticised the FA as well.
I can’t remember the name of the TV show.
Heavily criticised for allowing the abuse or for wiring up the ref? As for ex pros excusing abuse, that has no credibility any more. It's like saying wolf whistling and slapping females on the bum is ok as it's always happened isn't it? Clubs and players would be warned this was happening indeed the ref could be allowed to switch their mike off / on, warning the players he/ she was about to do so. Other sports don't suffer the same level of disrespect for officials, football needs to act or simply stop regurgitating the same discussion and publicly accept that such abuse is part and parcel of the beautiful game.
bluescouser
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Just seen a BBC story on 10:14 - Feb 14 with 1757 views
A work colleague who ran a schoolboy team about 20 to 25 years ago told me of an event where a Premier League referee spoke and took questions. One guy said to him, the abuse you guys take on match of the day is given to us with interest on a Sunday morning game. This was at the start of the respect program, the referee replied with a straight face that respect to officials would move up through the game as the young players got older. There was huge laughter from the audience. Grass roots referees are now seeing what happens when the FA ignore a problem for many years and allow top professional players to give out foul and abusive language at every game to try to influence decisions.
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Just seen a BBC story on 10:19 - Feb 14 with 1733 views
This thread and other things I have read online about this story this morning is a perfect example of a new modern phenomena I have temporarily named “not me, them” where we all decry a Thing and more especially the people participating in the Thing while simultaneously doing the Thing.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Just seen a BBC story on 10:19 - Feb 14 by chicoazul
This thread and other things I have read online about this story this morning is a perfect example of a new modern phenomena I have temporarily named “not me, them” where we all decry a Thing and more especially the people participating in the Thing while simultaneously doing the Thing.
Try being a linesman in kids football. Nothing beats being the target of 90 mins obscene abuse in front of your own children.
Or even worse, being a referee when the proper ref doesn't turn up.
I did that on a few occasions, and, on one occasion, even snapped at one of the opposition coaches who was given me a bit of stick by calling him a stupid tw@t. Perhaps not a good example for the kids, but I just got sick of the constant abuse.
Sadly, proper referees must contain their emotions (the incident with Alan Judge being a rare exception), but they must often feel tempted to deck some of the players.
[Post edited 14 Feb 2023 10:52]
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Just seen a BBC story on 11:07 - Feb 14 with 1574 views
Was that the one when he accused the ref of being a cheat, to which ref responded "we may be crap but we don't cheat." Not sure a card was shown though, which sums it up. Fancy calling the ref a cheat and no action being taken. It's pretty ridiculous.
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