By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
The report also suggests the need for tax reform with the following example being rather striking.
The tax liability incurred by an individual generating £40,000 of income varies across three different legal forms. The differences are stark. For an employee, the tax liability for a job generating £40,000 of income is £11,326. That compares with £8,135 for a self-employed person and just £6,604 when the income is earned through a company (allowing it to be paid out partially in the form of dividends). Even these figures will understate the degree of disparity in cases where business owners are able to take income in the form of capital gains which are often taxed at lower rates than dividends
1
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 18:20 - Aug 24 with 2986 views
So weird how we all pay more tax than we have for nearly 80 years and public services are in retreat.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 18:20 - Aug 24 by chicoazul
So weird how we all pay more tax than we have for nearly 80 years and public services are in retreat.
Some of us have paid more taxes. Not all.
And I think the biggest thing is that people haven't paid quite enough for their retirement. Right now working people are paying for others to retire when they likelihood is we're not going to get the same benefit. I imagine the state pension will either be scraped or severely limited by the time I get to retirement age (or if I get to retirement age).
Report is actually quite interesting, raises a lot of points I was unaware of and some I am all too familiar with.
Tax hikes will have to come from the wealthy. The 95pc of earners cannot shoulder more deductions with all the compounded inflation. We’ll also soon have one of the higher corporation tax rates in the Western world.
CGT needs increasing, the richest people aren’t on PAYE. And for all the white van men who moan about how sh1t the NHS is, there’s a reason builders all have massive houses and drive Range Rovers.
0
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 19:04 - Aug 24 with 2904 views
Whilst we need to get on top of the record levels of borrowing the Tories continue to cause, better spending on public services would also save the taxpayers money. Too much is spent for private profit instead of paying reputable builders to build schools and hospitals; or training and employing medical staff and teachers instead of paying for supply cover. So much is wasted in the interest of growing private profit.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 20:24 - Aug 24 by LeoMuff
Uk corporation tax last Labour government 28-30%, 2015-22 19%.
What’s the comparative corp tax take like between those two years?
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 20:35 - Aug 24 by chicoazul
What’s the comparative corp tax take like between those two years?
Not the answer to your question but they do go into some detail in the IFS report about corporate taxes in particular: Until recently, the big-picture trend in UK corporation tax was rate cutting (see Figure 12) and base broadening; this trend has been seen across many developed countries in recent decades, although the UK went further than most. In 2022, the UK had one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world, but also some of its least generous investment allowances. Broadly speaking, the low rate was well targeted at making the UK an attractive location for profitable, internationally mobile investments. But the narrower base disincentivises domestic investment.
So encouraging larger international corporations but disincentivising the smaller home grown ones.
On just the general topic, the whole predicament just echoes what Lord David Willets has been warning about for years.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 20:24 - Aug 24 by LeoMuff
Uk corporation tax last Labour government 28-30%, 2015-22 19%.
I hate to say it, but Chico actually has a point for once. Corporate tax rates are largely optics as with anything else in politics. It’s all very well saying “I’m going to charge x amount Corp Tax if I get into power”, but you also need to know how much is being given effectively as rebates (R+D incentives, subsidies - think oil majors) etc.
The Bermudan response, for example, to the global minimum tax plan is that they’ll follow it, but cut payroll taxes, and give tax credits. All depressingly smoke and mirrors, and a race to the bottom, the joys of globalisation.
[Post edited 24 Aug 2023 20:57]
0
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:27 - Aug 24 with 2675 views
The personal tax burden is enormous for the middle classes. Taxes have consistently risen and squeezed. Recent changes by a low tax regime are:
- CGT exemption down to £6k - dividend exemption down £1k now - personal allowance gone at £125k - higher rate at £125k
And yet public services are at seemingly their worst point in years. The pension burden from our aging population is like an anchor. We push on with infrastructure projects with no material improvements like HS2.
At some point we need a proper conversation about efficiency and effectiveness in what appears to be a totally broken economy and society. Blaming the Tories is all well and good but until the root causes are addressed, we are just moving deck chairs.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:27 - Aug 24 by TractorWood
The personal tax burden is enormous for the middle classes. Taxes have consistently risen and squeezed. Recent changes by a low tax regime are:
- CGT exemption down to £6k - dividend exemption down £1k now - personal allowance gone at £125k - higher rate at £125k
And yet public services are at seemingly their worst point in years. The pension burden from our aging population is like an anchor. We push on with infrastructure projects with no material improvements like HS2.
At some point we need a proper conversation about efficiency and effectiveness in what appears to be a totally broken economy and society. Blaming the Tories is all well and good but until the root causes are addressed, we are just moving deck chairs.
[Post edited 24 Aug 2023 21:27]
The Tories ARE the root cause.
1
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:42 - Aug 24 with 2633 views
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:33 - Aug 24 by Meadowlark
The Tories ARE the root cause.
Perhaps but is systemic inefficiency going to be addressed or even mentioned by the Tories or Labour at the next election?
No, it will be Tory gaslighting and Labour 1970's invest in people rhetoric. We need to look at Asia, Europe and the US cherry pick the most effective systems and processes and ruthlessly revolutionise our crumbling society.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 18:20 - Aug 24 by chicoazul
So weird how we all pay more tax than we have for nearly 80 years and public services are in retreat.
But in the example I gave in the OP, the ordinary employee is bearing the burden more than the self-employed or those who have set up a company.
And in Westminster (which has properties valued in the tens of millions), the top council tax rate (Band H) is 1,824.10 which is less than a Band C property where I live.
As the report suggests, there needs to be reform (as well as increases) which, as well as making the system fairer, might actually benefit the ordinary person.
[Post edited 24 Aug 2023 22:26]
0
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 00:51 - Aug 25 with 2497 views
Apply a Bill of Attainder to everybody living with an account at Coutts on, say, 1 January 2020. The attainder would be the greater of their total assets (not less any liabilities) of either 1 January 2020 or the date of the bill becoming law.
That'll be a start.
An attainder also to be applied to all hedge fund managers just in case any of them don't bank with Coutts.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:42 - Aug 24 by TractorWood
Perhaps but is systemic inefficiency going to be addressed or even mentioned by the Tories or Labour at the next election?
No, it will be Tory gaslighting and Labour 1970's invest in people rhetoric. We need to look at Asia, Europe and the US cherry pick the most effective systems and processes and ruthlessly revolutionise our crumbling society.
Because we've got an aging population with increasingly costly health needs. And those people don't pay tax and will take out more than they paid in.
We've gutted other services to pay for this over the years at the expense of the young but there's increasingly very little to cut. The health budget has ballooned because of this.
Meanwhile the people who have these complex health needs got much wealthier on the whole through no real work because of rapid house price increases and they get preferential treatment with things like the triple lock which costs insane amounts every year.
Something has got to give at some point, we can't just keep asking workers to pick up the slack. There are some in the report who obviously don't pay enough (those not going through PAYE) but there needs to be a proper conversation about the current burden of the health budget overall.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 20:57 - Aug 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna
I hate to say it, but Chico actually has a point for once. Corporate tax rates are largely optics as with anything else in politics. It’s all very well saying “I’m going to charge x amount Corp Tax if I get into power”, but you also need to know how much is being given effectively as rebates (R+D incentives, subsidies - think oil majors) etc.
The Bermudan response, for example, to the global minimum tax plan is that they’ll follow it, but cut payroll taxes, and give tax credits. All depressingly smoke and mirrors, and a race to the bottom, the joys of globalisation.
[Post edited 24 Aug 2023 20:57]
You should probably know that 'globalisation' is a right wing, antisemitic conspiracy theory!!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:27 - Aug 24 by TractorWood
The personal tax burden is enormous for the middle classes. Taxes have consistently risen and squeezed. Recent changes by a low tax regime are:
- CGT exemption down to £6k - dividend exemption down £1k now - personal allowance gone at £125k - higher rate at £125k
And yet public services are at seemingly their worst point in years. The pension burden from our aging population is like an anchor. We push on with infrastructure projects with no material improvements like HS2.
At some point we need a proper conversation about efficiency and effectiveness in what appears to be a totally broken economy and society. Blaming the Tories is all well and good but until the root causes are addressed, we are just moving deck chairs.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 08:47 - Aug 25 by Herbivore
The Tories are the root cause, mate.
I really hope they are but fear it’s more than that.
I can’t get doctors appointments. They are all gone by 8.15. I am on the line at 8 in the queue. No advance booking allowed. They have no answer to all the new housing that has been built in recent years and a totally overwhelmed practise. It’s really worrying.
I’m not sure any party is going to be fixing these issues anytime soon.
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 09:02 - Aug 25 by nodge_blue
I really hope they are but fear it’s more than that.
I can’t get doctors appointments. They are all gone by 8.15. I am on the line at 8 in the queue. No advance booking allowed. They have no answer to all the new housing that has been built in recent years and a totally overwhelmed practise. It’s really worrying.
I’m not sure any party is going to be fixing these issues anytime soon.
Who has been in power for the last 13 years and overseen the crisis in the NHS?
Looks like the Taxpayers Alliance and other free-market ideologues have done their job.
Amazing that people are suggesting that we’re a high-tax country that wastes billions of public funds when we’re clearly a low-tax, low-spend country that still wastes billions.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 09:38 - Aug 25 with 2207 views
The state pension is just a massive Ponzi scheme, essentially. I have several decades before I am eligible to claim it and I would be surprised if there is anything left by then.
0
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 09:38 - Aug 25 with 2202 views
Higher taxes or a decline in public services? on 21:27 - Aug 24 by TractorWood
The personal tax burden is enormous for the middle classes. Taxes have consistently risen and squeezed. Recent changes by a low tax regime are:
- CGT exemption down to £6k - dividend exemption down £1k now - personal allowance gone at £125k - higher rate at £125k
And yet public services are at seemingly their worst point in years. The pension burden from our aging population is like an anchor. We push on with infrastructure projects with no material improvements like HS2.
At some point we need a proper conversation about efficiency and effectiveness in what appears to be a totally broken economy and society. Blaming the Tories is all well and good but until the root causes are addressed, we are just moving deck chairs.
[Post edited 24 Aug 2023 21:27]
In what sense do those things affect the Middle Class? The median income in the UK is £27,756 p.a. To pay the higher rate at £125k you would have to be in the 99th UK percentile for income.
The tax burden in Britain is not especially high. As a proportion of GDP it is 7.2% lower than the EU14 average (the 14 states that made up the EU pre-2004), where GDP per capita is also higher on average. All those countries make more money, then spend a higher proportion of it on public services, so ... their public services are better. Not rocket science really.
(As an aside, the talking point that Britain's tax burden is "the highest since the war" is rather misleading. The tax burden in Britain was largely stable between 2005 to 2020, then rose sharply during 2021, largely because there was a boom in corporate profits during Covid. That still didn't take the tax burden into "highest since the war" territory, that line comes from an ONS projection for 2027-28, based on the tax bands remaining the same and wages continuing to rise with inflation)
Politicians in Britain love a "well, actually, it's more complicated than that", which is why when it comes to discussing public services, there's always this argument that "throwing money at the problem isn't enough", followed by a load of largely pie in the sky stuff about increasing efficiency or private sector innovation or new technology. But, generally speaking, the problem with the UK's public services and infrastructure is that we get what we pay for.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
