| David Davis resigns 07:55 - Jul 9 with 8089 views | Herbivore |
Brexit is an utter shambles, it can't be delivered and certainly not by a weak and divided Tory government. The Brexiters need to actually start getting behind their country and put what is best for it ahead of their own selfish whims and accept that we need to rethink the whole thing and probably need a second referendum to stop this monumental cock up. |  |
| |  |
| David Davis resigns on 09:24 - Jul 9 with 1713 views | Guthrum |
| David Davis resigns on 08:51 - Jul 9 by Pinewoodblue |
Not a problem Boris to the rescue.
Not leaving the EU really isn't going to help solve the problems the country faces, nor is having Corbyn as PM which is the likely outcome of remaining. |
I'm not sure that leaving is particularly going to help, either. Nor is this particular government, who - quite apart from being completely distracted by Brexit - cannot seem to handle the necessary financial juggling act of running a pretty skint nation without very public departmental squabbling. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:25 - Jul 9 with 1711 views | Keno |
| David Davis resigns on 08:27 - Jul 9 by meekreech |
Article 50 does not allow a reversal to the status quo . |
well that would have us rocking all over the world |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:25 - Jul 9 with 1715 views | hype313 |
| David Davis resigns on 09:13 - Jul 9 by Guthrum |
We do have repeated referenda (every five years, currently) on who should run the country. Perhaps it would be good to ask the public more frequently on other important issues? |
The decision should never been given to the General public to make, they are not knowledgeable or informed enough to make such a big decision.
Cameron only offered this to keep UKIP at bay and it has backfired hugely.
Everyone talks about the need for labour to split, I actually think the Tories need to do the same, they haven't been united for years since we got involved with Europe and it has been their achilles heel ever since, whilst we all suffer in the meantime. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:26 - Jul 9 with 1710 views | Swansea_Blue |
Or as someone says in the comments,
Laurel & Hardy were geniuses pretending to be thick as fcuk.
The opposite of May and Johnson, Davis, et al.
Bit of a pickle isn't it? |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:28 - Jul 9 with 1707 views | Guthrum |
| David Davis resigns on 09:21 - Jul 9 by WeWereZombies |
Wouldn't that be an abandonment of the representative democracy that has been fought for over centuries of hardship? |
Not really. After all, MPs are supposed to be representatives of the will of their constituents, not of the interests of their party. Perhaps it might force them to canvass more widely in between elections. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:37 - Jul 9 with 1691 views | bracknell_blue |
| David Davis resigns on 08:33 - Jul 9 by homer_123 |
Ship has sailed. Nothing in Article 50 covers reversing the decision.
Although, I believe Tusk has said 'it's possible' - but I bet we;d be over a barrel there as well. |
The chap who wrote Article 50, Lord Kerr, has briefed HMG some time ago that it is reversible. Not reported,. obviously, in the Tory/fright-wing press or by the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation, formerly known ads the BBC. Our media don't like uncomfortable truths. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:38 - Jul 9 with 1680 views | StokieBlue |
| David Davis resigns on 08:36 - Jul 9 by Steve_M |
It would be a political decision to do so and a political decision to accept it. Within reason, anything might be possible.
it wouldn't be the status prior to June 2016 though, the UK political class has shown itself to be too profoundly unserious and mendacious for that.
To add that. Brexit was always possible only if it acknowledged the immense costs and disruption it would cause to many UK-based and cross-border businesses, to say nothing of individual citizens, and allowed plenty of time to reach an end state. |
Why would the EU accept a reversal which means we keep our veto and rebate?
They would be fools to do so.
So the options are :
1) Carry on with the soft-brexit which is worse than actually staying
2) Stay but without the rebate or veto.
What a total shower.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:42 - Jul 9 with 1681 views | WeWereZombies |
| David Davis resigns on 09:28 - Jul 9 by Guthrum |
Not really. After all, MPs are supposed to be representatives of the will of their constituents, not of the interests of their party. Perhaps it might force them to canvass more widely in between elections. |
More than members of Parliament going out canvassing it needs the electorate to become politically engaged, and I think the last referendum proved that that does not happen overnight. By analogy, you cannot blame the diesel engine for breaking down if you put petrol in the tank.
And, unfortunately, I do know what I am talking about on this latter point. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 10:27]
|  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| David Davis resigns on 09:44 - Jul 9 with 1678 views | Steve_M |
| David Davis resigns on 09:38 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue |
Why would the EU accept a reversal which means we keep our veto and rebate?
They would be fools to do so.
So the options are :
1) Carry on with the soft-brexit which is worse than actually staying
2) Stay but without the rebate or veto.
What a total shower.
SB |
We would probably lose the rebate, the veto would surely remain though as it's something every country has (except on issues that fall to majority voting). Losing the rebate would be economically better than leaving.
Whatever they did would depend on good will, something this government has seemingly made an effort to erode over the last two years. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:54 - Jul 9 with 1658 views | Swansea_Blue |
| David Davis resigns on 09:38 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue |
Why would the EU accept a reversal which means we keep our veto and rebate?
They would be fools to do so.
So the options are :
1) Carry on with the soft-brexit which is worse than actually staying
2) Stay but without the rebate or veto.
What a total shower.
SB |
Why would we lose anything - nothing has changed yet, we still have the rebate? Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick here withdrawing from A50 simply halts progress towards leaving. It would certainly piss the Europeans off though.
Although it's far from clear whether we can pull back from Article 50. It's been reported that the author Lord Kerr says it can 'easily be stopped', whereas the supreme court says it can't. So presumably we'd only know after a legal challenge.
I can't see them trying to stop A50 - it would be one of the largest erosions of trust I've have ever seen. On a par with how Thatcher is viewed in former mining areas. The Tories would be setting themselves up for decades of hate. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:57 - Jul 9 with 1657 views | Guthrum |
| David Davis resigns on 09:42 - Jul 9 by WeWereZombies |
More than members of Parliament going out canvassing it needs the electorate to become politically engaged, and I think the last referendum proved that that does not happen overnight. By analogy, you cannot blame the diesel engine for breaking down if you put petrol in the tank.
And, unfortunately, I do know what I am talking about on this latter point. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 10:27]
|
Yes, I have done that to my car, too.
Perhaps there should be a greater concentration on education (rather, perhaps, than emotive or mindless entertainment pap), to make the public better informed and more equipped to make decisions? Might also spark people's interest and get them more involved in the process. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 09:58 - Jul 9 with 1652 views | Darth_Koont |
| David Davis resigns on 09:44 - Jul 9 by Steve_M |
We would probably lose the rebate, the veto would surely remain though as it's something every country has (except on issues that fall to majority voting). Losing the rebate would be economically better than leaving.
Whatever they did would depend on good will, something this government has seemingly made an effort to erode over the last two years. |
I don't believe the EU member states would punish us if we continued to be EU citizens.
Although, I think they might haul our government over the coals for a colossal waste of time for these past 2 years. Irrespective of the referendum result, how it's been handled has been shambolic. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:01 - Jul 9 with 1648 views | crazyblue68 |
You still banging on about a second referendum? Thats not how democracy works. An intelligent guy like yourself knows that. Whatever we voted will stay as it is. God you are boring. We cant change it. Please start to realise that. We have to rely on an inept government to deliver thats the real problem. They are all spineless idiots. Love Maggie or loathe her, l bet she would have got just what she wanted out of this |  | | |
| David Davis resigns on 10:01 - Jul 9 with 1640 views | giant_stow |
| David Davis resigns on 09:58 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
I don't believe the EU member states would punish us if we continued to be EU citizens.
Although, I think they might haul our government over the coals for a colossal waste of time for these past 2 years. Irrespective of the referendum result, how it's been handled has been shambolic. |
If the EU were any good, they'd make a public offer of staying in with no strings right now. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:02 - Jul 9 with 1640 views | crazyblue68 |
| David Davis resigns on 08:21 - Jul 9 by SomethingBlue |
It's not the will of the people though. |
52% wanted it. So it is the will of the people mate. | | | |
| David Davis resigns on 10:05 - Jul 9 with 1635 views | crazyblue68 |
| David Davis resigns on 08:27 - Jul 9 by BlueBadger |
Fine, let's have another referendum that says 'weak, now you know what a clusterf*ck it is, do you still think it's a good idea' then. |
Its done. We had a referendum. 52% voted to leave. You can keep voting until you get the right result for you. Thats not how democracy works. | | | |
| David Davis resigns on 10:06 - Jul 9 with 1628 views | Pinewoodblue |
| David Davis resigns on 09:24 - Jul 9 by Guthrum |
I'm not sure that leaving is particularly going to help, either. Nor is this particular government, who - quite apart from being completely distracted by Brexit - cannot seem to handle the necessary financial juggling act of running a pretty skint nation without very public departmental squabbling. |
Not sure if is distraction more like lack of political will. The lack of enthusiasm from civil servants and appointed advisors doesn't help.
We don't have the skills available for Brexit negotiations to succeed nor to tackle the problems that existed even before the referendum. NHS problems are not limited to funding, managing expenditure is as important as throwing the money in.
We are also letting far too many companies and undivuduals to avoid taxes, and again lack the will to do anything about it.
Remaining in the EU cures nothing. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:08 - Jul 9 with 1626 views | Darth_Koont |
| David Davis resigns on 10:01 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
If the EU were any good, they'd make a public offer of staying in with no strings right now. |
As far as I'm aware, that's always been on the table. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:11 - Jul 9 with 1616 views | giant_stow |
| David Davis resigns on 10:08 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
As far as I'm aware, that's always been on the table. |
rebate and all? ... seems some doubt above. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:11 - Jul 9 with 1618 views | Swansea_Blue |
| David Davis resigns on 10:01 - Jul 9 by crazyblue68 |
You still banging on about a second referendum? Thats not how democracy works. An intelligent guy like yourself knows that. Whatever we voted will stay as it is. God you are boring. We cant change it. Please start to realise that. We have to rely on an inept government to deliver thats the real problem. They are all spineless idiots. Love Maggie or loathe her, l bet she would have got just what she wanted out of this |
Point of order - it's exactly how democracy works. It's an endless cycle of campaigning and voting. UKIP campaigned again and again to leave the EU and were defeated again and again. It's their right to be able to keep going.
Yes, the ineptitude of the government is a major problem in all of this too. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:12 - Jul 9 with 1609 views | No9 |
| David Davis resigns on 10:08 - Jul 9 by Darth_Koont |
As far as I'm aware, that's always been on the table. |
I beleive you are correct although I would say some countries will want to take this as an opportunity to redcue many of the advantages the UK has via its most favourable deals e.g. reduction or cancellation of the rebate. | | | |
| David Davis resigns on 10:15 - Jul 9 with 1606 views | factual_blue |
| David Davis resigns on 10:01 - Jul 9 by crazyblue68 |
You still banging on about a second referendum? Thats not how democracy works. An intelligent guy like yourself knows that. Whatever we voted will stay as it is. God you are boring. We cant change it. Please start to realise that. We have to rely on an inept government to deliver thats the real problem. They are all spineless idiots. Love Maggie or loathe her, l bet she would have got just what she wanted out of this |
You've just demonstrated what a terrible idea an referendum was, particularly one based on a simple majority.
Harold Wilson, now he could run a referendum properly. |  |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:26 - Jul 9 with 1590 views | Guthrum |
| David Davis resigns on 10:06 - Jul 9 by Pinewoodblue |
Not sure if is distraction more like lack of political will. The lack of enthusiasm from civil servants and appointed advisors doesn't help.
We don't have the skills available for Brexit negotiations to succeed nor to tackle the problems that existed even before the referendum. NHS problems are not limited to funding, managing expenditure is as important as throwing the money in.
We are also letting far too many companies and undivuduals to avoid taxes, and again lack the will to do anything about it.
Remaining in the EU cures nothing. |
It's more that leaving the EU has added another layer to the country's existing problems (we are, after all, still trying to climb out of a major recession). The Government is expending so much time and effort on that issue, other things are not getting the attention they deserve.
Civil servants are just that - servants. Their job is to make things work. Lack of enthusiasm is likely to be down to the impracticability of proposals and poor leadership from the ideologues who are supposedly driving the process.
The NHS is another example of how ideology (privatisation) has been put above efficiency. Also the railways. It's not even as if they have been properly privatised, with full ownership of the infrastructure, budgets and the like. Instead there are half-arsed trust and franchise structures which do not give the profitability a private company needs. With balkanisation reducing economies of scale in purchasing. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:27 - Jul 9 with 1586 views | Darth_Koont |
| David Davis resigns on 10:11 - Jul 9 by giant_stow |
rebate and all? ... seems some doubt above. |
Probably. Although the rebate has always been up for discussion. It's not part of our terms for being an EU member and it has been renegotiated since it first came in. And I know we're talking about billions, but it's still small beer in the wider scheme.
More importantly, even if Brexit is put out of its misery, I think we need to establish what kind of role we want to have within the EU after this — and in the world. We need to grow up, at least politically. | |
| |
| David Davis resigns on 10:30 - Jul 9 with 1575 views | No9 |
| David Davis resigns on 10:01 - Jul 9 by crazyblue68 |
You still banging on about a second referendum? Thats not how democracy works. An intelligent guy like yourself knows that. Whatever we voted will stay as it is. God you are boring. We cant change it. Please start to realise that. We have to rely on an inept government to deliver thats the real problem. They are all spineless idiots. Love Maggie or loathe her, l bet she would have got just what she wanted out of this |
"Love Maggie or loathe her, l bet she would have got just what she wanted out of this"
Er, you do realise she & her aides were behind many of the things the tories now object to?
In effect, she caused many of the problems in the first place - if you see them as problems that is. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
