| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. 16:55 - Aug 6 with 24403 views | homer_123 |
Not surprising I guess.
Anyone think their stance might change as we veer towards Oct? |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:42 - Aug 7 with 2524 views | Pinewoodblue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:21 - Aug 7 by footers |
We didn't ignore the result of the first referendum. We joined the EEC. |
Why rewrite history . There was no referendum before we joined but there was one in 1975 to remain. |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:44 - Aug 7 with 2511 views | Herbivore |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:35 - Aug 7 by flimflam |
So you really believe that the will of the sitting MP's was to allow Brexit to happen.
So there are no MPs who openly wish to stop Brexit altogether regardless of the result of the referendum and also state they would continue to ignore any future results?
Thats what I call undemocratic. Simply running down the clock to allow the referendum result to be honoured and on our terms and not the EU's is the right thing to do and certainly not undemocratic.
Yes the ERG prevented it going through previously but it was not Brexit, or at least the Brexit that I voted for as was half in half out shake it all about. |
Actually it was the Brexit you voted for. All of the leave campaigns campaigned on ending freedom of movement, leaving the political union, but retaining close economic ties. The Withdrawal Agreement did all of that and yet was voted down anyway.
And yes, there are some MPs who are opposed to Brexit. Why shouldn't they be? Over 48% of the electorate voted remain and in a functioning democracy opposing views should be represented. That said, had the most ardent Brexiteers actually got behind us leaving in March we'd have left by now.
There is no mandate at all for no deal. It wasn't what was voted for, nobody campaigned on the basis of leaving with no deal. In the GE in 2017 the majority of the electorate voted for parties that had ruled out no deal. In the EU elections this year the majority of the electorate voted for parties who were against leaving the EU without a deal. Parliament has rejected leaving without a deal. Leaving with no deal has no mandate, it is not remotely democratic. |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:56 - Aug 7 with 2473 views | manchego |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:35 - Aug 7 by flimflam |
So you really believe that the will of the sitting MP's was to allow Brexit to happen.
So there are no MPs who openly wish to stop Brexit altogether regardless of the result of the referendum and also state they would continue to ignore any future results?
Thats what I call undemocratic. Simply running down the clock to allow the referendum result to be honoured and on our terms and not the EU's is the right thing to do and certainly not undemocratic.
Yes the ERG prevented it going through previously but it was not Brexit, or at least the Brexit that I voted for as was half in half out shake it all about. |
It's precisely because Brexit is undefinable that it hasn't so far been delivered.
You refer to the Brexit you voted for. What exactly was that ?
Whatever that is, I'll bet my boots it's one of 20 you could describe. |  | | |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:03 - Aug 7 with 2455 views | eastwell_blue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:08 - Aug 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Your first post since November 2018. You shouldn’t have bothered.
But you demonstrate why it’s impossible to have a reasonable debate on this subject. Some people prefer to shoot the messenger and ignore the message.
Forget who is writing the article, it raises some interesting points re what could happen in the event of a VOC. and it’s from somebody reasonably close to the leadership so understands the mindset.
Steve Bannon is a vile racists bigot but I’d read with interest what he has to say about the inner workings at his time in the White House. [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 10:16]
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Here's some of his more 'interesting' comments. This is 'reasonable debate'?
So it's Ok for you to call Steve Bannon a vile racist bigot? I just chose the wrong one?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/9-of-the-worst-things-toby-young-has-said |  | | |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:09 - Aug 7 with 2445 views | Kievthegreat |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 09:52 - Aug 7 by Pinewoodblue |
All Boris is doing is use the rules to his advantage. It isn't a question of ignoring democracy. |
They didn't think that when Charles I sent parliament home. |  | | |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:19 - Aug 7 with 2432 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 10:21 - Aug 7 by footers |
We didn't ignore the result of the first referendum. We joined the EEC. |
We didn't have a referendum to join. We joined the EEC in 1973 and had referendum on whether we should remain or leave two years later after a change in government.
You man Foot was one of the leading campaigners for leave. |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:40 - Aug 7 with 2415 views | giant_stow |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 08:26 - Aug 7 by Pinewoodblue |
There is even less time than that. After a vote of no confidence 14 days are allowed to give others a chance to form a government that thr HoC can approve. Thr five week period begins after that. If the vot of no confidence is any later thsn the first week after recall it will be too late.
We would probably leave the EU One hour after polling stations close. Government cannot make any controversial decisions in those five weeks either so couldn't postpone Brexit as that would be contrary to the law which still dictates we leave 11pm on 31st October. |
Boris losing a vote of no confidence and staying on to see through brexit? This is all taking on a very dark tone indeed. |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:50 - Aug 7 with 2397 views | Herbivore |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:40 - Aug 7 by giant_stow |
Boris losing a vote of no confidence and staying on to see through brexit? This is all taking on a very dark tone indeed. |
A no deal Brexit that has no mandate from Parliament or the public at that. Very dark times indeed. | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:58 - Aug 7 with 2381 views | GlasgowBlue |
It's not in in Corbyn’s interest to support a unity government. A condition would probably be that he isn't PM.
If it is a Labour MP then it's a slap in the face for Jezza. If it is a Tory then the whole last four years have been a waste of time.
Corbyn's smartest move would be to say to the Tory rebels, if you want to stop no deal you have to put me into Number 10 and I'll request an extension and then I'll call a general election immediately. | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 12:06 - Aug 7 with 2360 views | linhdi |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:50 - Aug 7 by Herbivore |
A no deal Brexit that has no mandate from Parliament or the public at that. Very dark times indeed. |
And a "no deal Brexit" is a meaningless term anyway. As EU confirmed once again this week, they won't even begin to talk about future trade until we agree on citizens rights (where UK government is way short of anything acceptable), the £39bn divorce bill, and the Irish border issues. | | | |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 12:09 - Aug 7 with 2358 views | Herbivore |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 12:06 - Aug 7 by linhdi |
And a "no deal Brexit" is a meaningless term anyway. As EU confirmed once again this week, they won't even begin to talk about future trade until we agree on citizens rights (where UK government is way short of anything acceptable), the £39bn divorce bill, and the Irish border issues. |
It's basically us leaving with no framework at all in place but we will immediately be seeking a deal with the EU because we need one, we'll just be negotiating from a severely weakened position. And the issues you mention will still need to be resolved before we even get on to talking about trade. | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 12:26 - Aug 7 with 2336 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 11:58 - Aug 7 by GlasgowBlue |
It's not in in Corbyn’s interest to support a unity government. A condition would probably be that he isn't PM.
If it is a Labour MP then it's a slap in the face for Jezza. If it is a Tory then the whole last four years have been a waste of time.
Corbyn's smartest move would be to say to the Tory rebels, if you want to stop no deal you have to put me into Number 10 and I'll request an extension and then I'll call a general election immediately. |
Of course, it also could be a LibDem MP.
If there is a "unity" government, it won't suit any of the party leaders unless they are the leader of the "unity" government (except perhaps minor parties like the DUP if they get a meaningful say). However, there are sufficient MPs who share views on at least preventing no-deal Brexit that a unity government against Corbyn, Johnson and anyone else's preference is quite plausible. How they react may well decide the future of their parties. Both are fragilely held together thanks to the mess this process has brought. Maybe Cameron will ultimately be the PM whose decision led to a major change in our political system. (Accidentally of course in his failed attempt to preserve the 2-party system and his party.) |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 12:46 - Aug 7 with 2314 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 12:26 - Aug 7 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Of course, it also could be a LibDem MP.
If there is a "unity" government, it won't suit any of the party leaders unless they are the leader of the "unity" government (except perhaps minor parties like the DUP if they get a meaningful say). However, there are sufficient MPs who share views on at least preventing no-deal Brexit that a unity government against Corbyn, Johnson and anyone else's preference is quite plausible. How they react may well decide the future of their parties. Both are fragilely held together thanks to the mess this process has brought. Maybe Cameron will ultimately be the PM whose decision led to a major change in our political system. (Accidentally of course in his failed attempt to preserve the 2-party system and his party.) |
It looks like the horse trading between Labour and the SNP has already started.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/john-mcdonnell-open-to-second-s
I can't see Scottish Labour being too pleased with this as that puts the Tories as the only major Unionist party in front of the voters at election time. Which is ironic as the Tories are doing their damndest to break up the union. | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:08 - Aug 7 with 2274 views | bluebud |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 09:31 - Aug 7 by Herbivore |
So you're cool with one individual overriding parliamentary democracy? |
...a parliament ignoring the will of the people.....too right, I'm all over it. |  | | |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:10 - Aug 7 with 2268 views | footers |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:08 - Aug 7 by bluebud |
...a parliament ignoring the will of the people.....too right, I'm all over it. |
Not how a representative democracy works, I'm afraid, fella. Also, the referendum was merely advisory, not legally binding, so not got a leg to stand on really. [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 14:12]
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:11 - Aug 7 with 2266 views | Herbivore |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:08 - Aug 7 by bluebud |
...a parliament ignoring the will of the people.....too right, I'm all over it. |
No deal Brexit has no mandate. You can't override parliamentary democracy to force through a no deal Brexit that has no mandate from the public or parliament. | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:25 - Aug 7 with 2243 views | bluebud |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:11 - Aug 7 by Herbivore |
No deal Brexit has no mandate. You can't override parliamentary democracy to force through a no deal Brexit that has no mandate from the public or parliament. |
..it's the legal default though my long suffering friend.
You're sounding a bit touchy today, almost feels like the belief is going. Take a day off the board and get some fresh air pal. | | | |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:27 - Aug 7 with 2239 views | StokieBlue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:25 - Aug 7 by bluebud |
..it's the legal default though my long suffering friend.
You're sounding a bit touchy today, almost feels like the belief is going. Take a day off the board and get some fresh air pal. |
Is your avatar a metaphor for our predator-like economy waiting to burst out of the EU box?
SB |  |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:29 - Aug 7 with 2235 views | SpruceMoose |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:27 - Aug 7 by StokieBlue |
Is your avatar a metaphor for our predator-like economy waiting to burst out of the EU box?
SB |
Oh I assumed it was referencing a dusty taxidermied relic, once fearsome now just rigid and slightly weird looking. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:34 - Aug 7 with 2229 views | footers |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:27 - Aug 7 by StokieBlue |
Is your avatar a metaphor for our predator-like economy waiting to burst out of the EU box?
SB |
Ignore me. [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 14:34]
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:35 - Aug 7 with 2225 views | SpruceMoose |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:34 - Aug 7 by footers |
Ignore me. [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 14:34]
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PMd you about the VRO bud. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:46 - Aug 7 with 2216 views | Herbivore |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:25 - Aug 7 by bluebud |
..it's the legal default though my long suffering friend.
You're sounding a bit touchy today, almost feels like the belief is going. Take a day off the board and get some fresh air pal. |
The legal default point is not a refutation of any of my arguments. Something being the legal default does not equate to there being a democratic mandate for it. I can see you've realised you're a bit out of your depth so you're going for the whole "you seem touch, have a day off" line. Cute. | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 15:04 - Aug 7 with 2202 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 14:35 - Aug 7 by SpruceMoose |
PMd you about the VRO bud. |
That must be the tenth time you've pm'd him about this imaginary VRO this week. Is the joke not wearing a bit thin mate? | |
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| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 15:06 - Aug 7 with 2198 views | SpruceMoose |
| So....the EU are refusing to renegotiate. on 15:04 - Aug 7 by GlasgowBlue |
That must be the tenth time you've pm'd him about this imaginary VRO this week. Is the joke not wearing a bit thin mate? |
Someone's grumpy! Unsanctioned house party keep you awake last night matey?
Please find all ten examples that you have claimed or issue an apology. Ta! [Post edited 7 Aug 2019 15:07]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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