| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? 09:01 - Aug 28 with 30210 views | ElderGrizzly |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:38 - Aug 28 with 4599 views | Darth_Koont |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:27 - Aug 28 by Guthrum |
One of the biggest problems with this whole situation has been the rigid "game theory" approach that by being tough you're likely to get more of what you want rather than by rational compromise. A concept espoused by macho supposed business experts who in reality are only good at using borrowed money to bully small companies. |
Indeed.
But I'm not sure how much of this is actually aimed at negotiation with the EU. Isn't their real market the rabid Brexiteers on the right of the Tory party/Brexit Party/UKIP anyway?
At best their approach to the game is compromised by those internal and domestic party political needs.
Will they take a bad approach for the UK if it bolsters their political power and careers?Undoubtedly. |  |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:39 - Aug 28 with 4592 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:05 - Aug 28 by caught-in-limbo |
While I completely agree with you, it's worth thinking about all the times I've posted stuff about:
a) our sham democracy
b) sleep-walking into fascism
c) controlled chaos
d) fascism coming in the name of anti-fascism
e) inept / complicit media
The global "west" is in a chaos (but it has been fomented by different means across different countries) and autocratic "order" will come to save us from ourselves (the pseudo-fascist state which is being painted for us by the media and their actors in parliament) and so called aggressor states.
Any efforts to effectively end our multi-party parliamentary democracy (prorogue parliament / form a government of national unity) will be just a stepping stone to a much bigger, pan-continental form of governance.
Ignoring this will be worse than ignoring what's happened over the last 4 or 5 years.
EDIT
But this will be ignored because it's not easy to believe this can happen when nobody in your trusted news sources are entertaining it as a possibility. [Post edited 28 Aug 2019 11:33]
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I disagree with the specific point that a GNU would destroy multi-party democracy for good. They have been formed before in times of crisis (often, but not exclusively, during a major war), but then subsequently broken apart again afterwards. There will always be factions within a GNU who seek to promote their own agenda and other groupings who stand outside it.
On another point, the idea that large regional (e.g. pan-continental) government is a bad thing is based on the questionable premise that small units work best. In reality, the formation of Great Britain ended border wars with the Scots and the existence of the EEC/EU has inhibited military conflict in Western Europe (formerly a very regular occurrance). |  |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:47 - Aug 28 with 4564 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:38 - Aug 28 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
But I'm not sure how much of this is actually aimed at negotiation with the EU. Isn't their real market the rabid Brexiteers on the right of the Tory party/Brexit Party/UKIP anyway?
At best their approach to the game is compromised by those internal and domestic party political needs.
Will they take a bad approach for the UK if it bolsters their political power and careers?Undoubtedly. |
But if, by courting the hard-liners, they lose the moderates and the undecideds, then it actually weakens their position (the latter two being far more numerous than the first). That was why Blair so assiduously courted Worcester Woman.
Unless they've spent so much time in the Telegraph comments section they believe the country is entirely populated by headbangers shouting about "treason". | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:50 - Aug 28 with 4555 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:47 - Aug 28 by Guthrum |
But if, by courting the hard-liners, they lose the moderates and the undecideds, then it actually weakens their position (the latter two being far more numerous than the first). That was why Blair so assiduously courted Worcester Woman.
Unless they've spent so much time in the Telegraph comments section they believe the country is entirely populated by headbangers shouting about "treason". |
Awkward...
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:52 - Aug 28 with 4552 views | flimflam |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 09:21 - Aug 28 by factual_blue |
And the tories will become unelectable.
Sorry, I forgot how many stupid people there are. |
Will they?
Get Brexit done and call a GE at which the Brexit party have said they will stand down their candidates.
Massive majority for Boris.
Fail to deliver Brexit then thats a different matter altogether. [Post edited 28 Aug 2019 12:23]
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| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:54 - Aug 28 with 4545 views | footers |
Incidentally, was doing a bit of spring cleaning yesterday and came across this piece of prescience from six years ago... this is how far we've come since...
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:55 - Aug 28 with 4534 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:50 - Aug 28 by ElderGrizzly |
Awkward...
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Perhaps a touch undiplomatic, but entirely accurate. Which is why the dissolution of Parliament for government convenience has been frowned upon for centuries. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:56 - Aug 28 with 4532 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:39 - Aug 28 by Guthrum |
I disagree with the specific point that a GNU would destroy multi-party democracy for good. They have been formed before in times of crisis (often, but not exclusively, during a major war), but then subsequently broken apart again afterwards. There will always be factions within a GNU who seek to promote their own agenda and other groupings who stand outside it.
On another point, the idea that large regional (e.g. pan-continental) government is a bad thing is based on the questionable premise that small units work best. In reality, the formation of Great Britain ended border wars with the Scots and the existence of the EEC/EU has inhibited military conflict in Western Europe (formerly a very regular occurrance). |
"I disagree with the specific point that a GNU would destroy multi-party democracy for good. "
I said a GNU would be a stepping stone.
"On another point, the idea that large regional (e.g. pan-continental) government is a bad thing is based on the questionable premise that small units work best."
That's overly simplistic in my view. Why not use the Soviet Union as an example of how bleak and oppressive a large regional (e.g. pan-continental) government can be? |  |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:08 - Aug 28 with 4507 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:56 - Aug 28 by caught-in-limbo |
"I disagree with the specific point that a GNU would destroy multi-party democracy for good. "
I said a GNU would be a stepping stone.
"On another point, the idea that large regional (e.g. pan-continental) government is a bad thing is based on the questionable premise that small units work best."
That's overly simplistic in my view. Why not use the Soviet Union as an example of how bleak and oppressive a large regional (e.g. pan-continental) government can be? |
With the Soviet Union it was a problem with the system (authoritarianism) rather than the geographical area. It is something which can afflict small nation states, too (e.g. Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea).
Large states/federations can be (relatively) benign, also (e.g. India, the USA, the EU).
I doubt anyone can name a nation/bloc which is perfect, but scale is not the problem, governmental style is. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:13 - Aug 28 with 4486 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:52 - Aug 28 by flimflam |
Will they?
Get Brexit done and call a GE at which the Brexit party have said they will stand down their candidates.
Massive majority for Boris.
Fail to deliver Brexit then thats a different matter altogether. [Post edited 28 Aug 2019 12:23]
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You're assuming that a) all BP voters would move to the Conservatives, rather than to Labour (the famous northern working class Brexiteers we hear so much about) and b) there are enough of them in the right places to make a significant difference. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:22 - Aug 28 with 4453 views | Darth_Koont |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:52 - Aug 28 by flimflam |
Will they?
Get Brexit done and call a GE at which the Brexit party have said they will stand down their candidates.
Massive majority for Boris.
Fail to deliver Brexit then thats a different matter altogether. [Post edited 28 Aug 2019 12:23]
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Is that a "massive majority"? Brexit Party have predominantly voted Conservative at GE anyway.
If I were you, I'd be more worried for the Tories losing seats to the LibDems in many middle-class areas and to Labour and the SNP in more working class and disenfranchised areas.
I doubt any party will get a majority but in a hung parliament no-one will partner with the Tories to prop them up like in 2010. The current breed are beyond the pale.
The real question is how much the loose coalition of Lab/LibDem/SNP/Greens can work together in a GE and eventually a government. But a proper coalition and a break from this incompetent centre-right, flirting with the far right, populist nonsense is starting to look very attractive. Maybe we can drag the UK back into the 21st century? | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:29 - Aug 28 with 4432 views | flimflam |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:22 - Aug 28 by Darth_Koont |
Is that a "massive majority"? Brexit Party have predominantly voted Conservative at GE anyway.
If I were you, I'd be more worried for the Tories losing seats to the LibDems in many middle-class areas and to Labour and the SNP in more working class and disenfranchised areas.
I doubt any party will get a majority but in a hung parliament no-one will partner with the Tories to prop them up like in 2010. The current breed are beyond the pale.
The real question is how much the loose coalition of Lab/LibDem/SNP/Greens can work together in a GE and eventually a government. But a proper coalition and a break from this incompetent centre-right, flirting with the far right, populist nonsense is starting to look very attractive. Maybe we can drag the UK back into the 21st century? |
Any party that puts PR on their manifesto would no doubt increase their vote share although not sure the two main parties would want that.
If the LIBS put that on their manifesto I would actually consider voting for them possibly maybe. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:40 - Aug 28 with 4407 views | Darth_Koont |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:29 - Aug 28 by flimflam |
Any party that puts PR on their manifesto would no doubt increase their vote share although not sure the two main parties would want that.
If the LIBS put that on their manifesto I would actually consider voting for them possibly maybe. |
Good to hear.
If we really want to "take back control" and re-establish democratic rights in the UK, then PR and electoral reform in the UK is much, much more important than exiting or indeed even reforming the EU.
Leaving the EU just puts control even more in the hands of a narrow political and media class, who have proven time after time that they can't (or rather won't) address the country's needs. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:41 - Aug 28 with 4407 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:29 - Aug 28 by flimflam |
Any party that puts PR on their manifesto would no doubt increase their vote share although not sure the two main parties would want that.
If the LIBS put that on their manifesto I would actually consider voting for them possibly maybe. |
Some sort of electoral reform is definitely gaining more traction than it has had in the past.
The Liberals/LibDems have had various forms of PR on their manifestoes for decades. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:49 - Aug 28 with 4392 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:41 - Aug 28 by Guthrum |
Some sort of electoral reform is definitely gaining more traction than it has had in the past.
The Liberals/LibDems have had various forms of PR on their manifestoes for decades. |
The EU can see through his scam too.
Johnson appears to think he has legal cover to prorogue if it is for the intention to hold a Queen’s speech. Shaky ground at best | | | |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:54 - Aug 28 with 4378 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:49 - Aug 28 by ElderGrizzly |
The EU can see through his scam too.
Johnson appears to think he has legal cover to prorogue if it is for the intention to hold a Queen’s speech. Shaky ground at best |
It's also a bit blatant in that he had the whole summer recess to devise new legislation and so the Queen's Speech could have been scheduled for next week, not the middle of October. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:04 - Aug 28 with 4353 views | flimflam |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 12:41 - Aug 28 by Guthrum |
Some sort of electoral reform is definitely gaining more traction than it has had in the past.
The Liberals/LibDems have had various forms of PR on their manifestoes for decades. |
We had the chance of PR a while back but the turnout was absolutely shocking.
Pretty certain it would be different this time. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:13 - Aug 28 with 4331 views | MJallday |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 09:26 - Aug 28 by PJH |
Good point, she should say "go away, I am on holiday". |
To : Boris.Johnson@number10.Gov.uk
From : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : RE: Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:45
Hi Boris,
FFS I’m On me holibobs at mo Can’t it wait? I’ll talk later, Got to go, Andrew is on the phone - something about a teenager he’s been nobbing.
L8rs, Liz
From : Boris.Johnson@number10.gov.uk
To : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:42
Dear Your Maj,
Sorry to be a pain, but Corbyn is throwing his toys out of his pram again. Can you suspend parliament until we can get this stuff sorted?
Yours,
Bozza |  |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:14 - Aug 28 with 4323 views | ericclacton |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:13 - Aug 28 by MJallday |
To : Boris.Johnson@number10.Gov.uk
From : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : RE: Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:45
Hi Boris,
FFS I’m On me holibobs at mo Can’t it wait? I’ll talk later, Got to go, Andrew is on the phone - something about a teenager he’s been nobbing.
L8rs, Liz
From : Boris.Johnson@number10.gov.uk
To : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:42
Dear Your Maj,
Sorry to be a pain, but Corbyn is throwing his toys out of his pram again. Can you suspend parliament until we can get this stuff sorted?
Yours,
Bozza |
MJ all day breakfast. |  | | |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:22 - Aug 28 with 4311 views | Darth_Koont |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:04 - Aug 28 by flimflam |
We had the chance of PR a while back but the turnout was absolutely shocking.
Pretty certain it would be different this time. |
The AV option was also awful. It looked set up to fail.
There are much better PR systems available like the Scottish Parliament that ensures fair PR at a a national level AND local representation via your local MSP. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:22 - Aug 28 with 4309 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:04 - Aug 28 by flimflam |
We had the chance of PR a while back but the turnout was absolutely shocking.
Pretty certain it would be different this time. |
That was engineered to possibly the least satisfactory (or easily understood) option. Little was done to increase the public appetite for change. Hardly surprising it was defeated.
I think it would. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:31 - Aug 28 with 4289 views | Guthrum |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:22 - Aug 28 by Darth_Koont |
The AV option was also awful. It looked set up to fail.
There are much better PR systems available like the Scottish Parliament that ensures fair PR at a a national level AND local representation via your local MSP. |
I prefer a system with larger constituencies electing, say, 4 MPs each under a PR system, with independents also permitted to stand. Sort of a return to the old system of electing two knights for each shire (tho the organisation would obviously be very different).
Means a constituency can have a variety of representation (i.e. more than one party), without breaking the link between locality and representation. As you say, the Scottish system also achieves this. | |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:33 - Aug 28 with 4287 views | factual_blue |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:13 - Aug 28 by MJallday |
To : Boris.Johnson@number10.Gov.uk
From : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : RE: Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:45
Hi Boris,
FFS I’m On me holibobs at mo Can’t it wait? I’ll talk later, Got to go, Andrew is on the phone - something about a teenager he’s been nobbing.
L8rs, Liz
From : Boris.Johnson@number10.gov.uk
To : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:42
Dear Your Maj,
Sorry to be a pain, but Corbyn is throwing his toys out of his pram again. Can you suspend parliament until we can get this stuff sorted?
Yours,
Bozza |
To : Boris.Johnson@number10.Gov.uk
From : queenliz@buckinghampalace.co.uk
Subject : RE: Brexit (Again)
Date : 27th August 2019 11:47
Hi Boris
I fotgot to add something my advisors have mentioned. This proroguing Parliament malarkey didn't go too well for Charles I, so I'll be passing on this.
Soz
Liz. |  |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 13:34 - Aug 28 with 4277 views | SpruceMoose |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 11:50 - Aug 28 by ElderGrizzly |
Awkward...
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"Yeah...but but but it's ok when WE do it..." |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 14:05 - Aug 28 with 4224 views | jaykay |
| Liz to be asked to Prorogue parliament today? on 09:58 - Aug 28 by Marshalls_Mullet |
...no one voted for Boris. |
so he just turned up one day and found himself a m.p. and pm. without anybody voting for him. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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