| omg emily thornberry just said 23:27 - Sep 5 with 22887 views | Trequartista |
If labour win an election they will negotiate a new deal with the eu and then have a referendum and campaign against the deal they have negiotiated.
Now i know the twtd bubble is only concerned with booting johnson but back in the real world the weakest most chaotic government in history is about 8 points clear of labour. And with statements like the aforementioned how can they expect anyone to vote for that? |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:34 - Sep 6 with 5494 views | Herbivore |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:30 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Labour have no clue.
They have been offered an election and then back away putting up multiple 'only when.....' answers.
She was hapless.
In fact I think they are all hapless right now.
Should have voted for Hunt. More calm and measured than the current muppets. |
Labour know exactly what they are doing. They're letting Boris hang himself and it's working a treat. If you want a party in disarray just look at the Tories. Their most talented politicians have all been purged or left of their own accord this week. |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:36 - Sep 6 with 5492 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:30 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Labour have no clue.
They have been offered an election and then back away putting up multiple 'only when.....' answers.
She was hapless.
In fact I think they are all hapless right now.
Should have voted for Hunt. More calm and measured than the current muppets. |
Hunt would never have got us into this crisis. But then too many people in the Conservative Party (both leaders and membership) wanted to bring things to a head like this. It's a fixed idea of revoultionaries that you create white heat, purge the weak and traitrous, then the pure can forge on to victory backed by the imaginary voices of the "silent majority". Unfortunately, the real world doesn't work like that. |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:39 - Sep 6 with 5483 views | BlueBadger |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:34 - Sep 6 by Herbivore |
Labour know exactly what they are doing. They're letting Boris hang himself and it's working a treat. If you want a party in disarray just look at the Tories. Their most talented politicians have all been purged or left of their own accord this week. |
Unfortunately, most of Labour's talented politicians have long since also been purged or sidelined. |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:40 - Sep 6 with 5483 views | wrightsrightglove |
To me it's not as stupid as it sounds. The only way I see us actually getting this decision correct is for a cross-party group to negotiate the best deal possible for leaving the EU (this may not be any different from May's deal.) This deal, along with 'no deal' and 'remain on current terms' should then be put out to a referendum. Everyone know's what they're voting for then, we can see the deal on offer and we can make our own choice on what's best. All parties should agree not to force any of their MPs to campaign for a certain outcome, no public money should be spent on campaigns, everyone should be free to make their own decision. The result of the referendum will be final and everyone will have to accept it and move forwards with whatever is decided.
It'll never happen but that's the only way I can see to get it sorted one way or another. |  | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:41 - Sep 6 with 5477 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 07:24 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue |
Well there is the small point that the EU have said they aren't going to renegotiate about 20 times but Labour continue to ignore them.
It's not really our choice.
SB |
The EU has said it will not renegotiate within the existing framework of red lines. In other words, they won't simply remove the Backstop without alternative arrangements or different conditions.
If the UK moves on those, then it creates room for movement by the EU. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:51 - Sep 6 with 5460 views | hampstead_blue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 07:24 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue |
Well there is the small point that the EU have said they aren't going to renegotiate about 20 times but Labour continue to ignore them.
It's not really our choice.
SB |
Funny when Labour poke the Tories for wanting to renegotiate and then state they themselves will do just that.
However....I don't think Corbyn will renegotiate in a manner which will ask the EU to compromise. I think he will simply give them more which, of course the EU will accept.
It's all gone mad. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:54 - Sep 6 with 5457 views | hampstead_blue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:34 - Sep 6 by Herbivore |
Labour know exactly what they are doing. They're letting Boris hang himself and it's working a treat. If you want a party in disarray just look at the Tories. Their most talented politicians have all been purged or left of their own accord this week. |
Really?
Corbyn isn't that bright, don't give him that much credit.
Corbyn and Johnson are both hopelessly out of their depth.
Labour and the Tories under Johnson are both un-electable. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:58 - Sep 6 with 5443 views | Herbivore |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:54 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Really?
Corbyn isn't that bright, don't give him that much credit.
Corbyn and Johnson are both hopelessly out of their depth.
Labour and the Tories under Johnson are both un-electable. |
Corbyn isn't the Labour Party. The Labour Party are playing a blinder currently. They've not fallen into Johnson's traps and are allowing him to hang himself. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:58 - Sep 6 with 5441 views | StokieBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:41 - Sep 6 by Guthrum |
The EU has said it will not renegotiate within the existing framework of red lines. In other words, they won't simply remove the Backstop without alternative arrangements or different conditions.
If the UK moves on those, then it creates room for movement by the EU. |
The only alternative that they will accept is a customs union. I wouldn't mind that but it might be rather hard to get past parliament and then the voters in a referendum the way things have turned out.
SB |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:59 - Sep 6 with 5437 views | Herbivore |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:39 - Sep 6 by BlueBadger |
Unfortunately, most of Labour's talented politicians have long since also been purged or sidelined. |
They still at least have the likes of Starmer and Cooper, even Tom Watson to an extent. The Tory front bench would lose a contest of wits with a potato. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:00 - Sep 6 with 5434 views | lowhouseblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:54 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Really?
Corbyn isn't that bright, don't give him that much credit.
Corbyn and Johnson are both hopelessly out of their depth.
Labour and the Tories under Johnson are both un-electable. |
indeed, this is the most depressing point i can ever remember in uk politics. brinkmanship, extremism and people exploiting division all over the shop and no one prepared to budge an inch. i have no idea at all what happens next. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:02 - Sep 6 with 5427 views | Herbivore |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:00 - Sep 6 by lowhouseblue |
indeed, this is the most depressing point i can ever remember in uk politics. brinkmanship, extremism and people exploiting division all over the shop and no one prepared to budge an inch. i have no idea at all what happens next. |
It's pretty clear what will happen next. There will be a GE but not until a Brexit extension has been agreed to remove the threat of no deal. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:03 - Sep 6 with 5419 views | lowhouseblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:02 - Sep 6 by Herbivore |
It's pretty clear what will happen next. There will be a GE but not until a Brexit extension has been agreed to remove the threat of no deal. |
possibly. and then what happens? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:04 - Sep 6 with 5413 views | Herbivore |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:03 - Sep 6 by lowhouseblue |
possibly. and then what happens? |
People vote for MPs. You are familiar with elections, right? | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:05 - Sep 6 with 5413 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:54 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Really?
Corbyn isn't that bright, don't give him that much credit.
Corbyn and Johnson are both hopelessly out of their depth.
Labour and the Tories under Johnson are both un-electable. |
Fortunately for the Labour Party's hopes, Corbyn is not really running the show, that's Starmer and McDonnell. Far more tactically astute. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:06 - Sep 6 with 5410 views | lowhouseblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:04 - Sep 6 by Herbivore |
People vote for MPs. You are familiar with elections, right? |
ok, that's helpful. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:07 - Sep 6 with 5407 views | Herbivore |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:06 - Sep 6 by lowhouseblue |
ok, that's helpful. |
No worries, happy to help. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:13 - Sep 6 with 5393 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:58 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue |
The only alternative that they will accept is a customs union. I wouldn't mind that but it might be rather hard to get past parliament and then the voters in a referendum the way things have turned out.
SB |
Indeed. As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it would remove much of the point of leaving the EU in the first place.
Unless the customs union extended only to Northern Ireland, giving them a special status within the UK. Might increase the Province's prosperity, as trade and services (at least notionally) flowed through it. Everyone would want an office in Belfast. The DUP wouldn't like it, but their support is no longer of any use to the Government. Would keep Good Friday intact, be easier to administer (customs stuff all done at ports and airports) and keep the nationalists happy. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:15 - Sep 6 with 5391 views | Swansea_Blue |
This line has been coming out of Labour for some time. Utterly deluded (in the timeframes we're currently working under). A lot would have to change for that to even be an option, as has already been discussed - such as a clear commitment to work under a different set of 'red lines' to May, for example (as mentioned by Guthers). [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 9:17]
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:19 - Sep 6 with 5378 views | Darth_Koont |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:13 - Sep 6 by Guthrum |
Indeed. As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it would remove much of the point of leaving the EU in the first place.
Unless the customs union extended only to Northern Ireland, giving them a special status within the UK. Might increase the Province's prosperity, as trade and services (at least notionally) flowed through it. Everyone would want an office in Belfast. The DUP wouldn't like it, but their support is no longer of any use to the Government. Would keep Good Friday intact, be easier to administer (customs stuff all done at ports and airports) and keep the nationalists happy. |
I think Scotland would demand the same thing too. It's critical to have access to the Europe market if there's going to be a chance to grow and diversify the economy. Making that even harder because opportunities end up being funnelled to Northern Ireland instead would be a kick in the teeth. |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:20 - Sep 6 with 5370 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:03 - Sep 6 by lowhouseblue |
possibly. and then what happens? |
Depends upon the composition of the House afterwards.
If Johnson can put together a government, we will leave the EU without a deal and try to pick up the pieces afterwards. Tho there is a faint chance he may backtrack to a reworded version of the May WA.
If the LibDems can form a government, there will be another referendum in the hope that Remain will win.
If Labour can form a government, then they will attempt to negotiate a much softer form of Brexit. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:24 - Sep 6 with 5353 views | lowhouseblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:20 - Sep 6 by Guthrum |
Depends upon the composition of the House afterwards.
If Johnson can put together a government, we will leave the EU without a deal and try to pick up the pieces afterwards. Tho there is a faint chance he may backtrack to a reworded version of the May WA.
If the LibDems can form a government, there will be another referendum in the hope that Remain will win.
If Labour can form a government, then they will attempt to negotiate a much softer form of Brexit. |
and if it's a hung parliament with a similar split and a remain majority? it promises to be the least predictable election imaginable - amounting to nothing more that a random re-throw of the dice.
i would have thought that a hung parliament must be the even money bet at this point? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:24 - Sep 6 with 5347 views | BrixtonBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 07:23 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue |
Why do you think those people would vote Labour? Given their stance on brexit the last two years I would think they are more likely to vote liberal.
SB |
There are various reasons given in the article if you actually read it! |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:29 - Sep 6 with 5333 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:19 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
I think Scotland would demand the same thing too. It's critical to have access to the Europe market if there's going to be a chance to grow and diversify the economy. Making that even harder because opportunities end up being funnelled to Northern Ireland instead would be a kick in the teeth. |
They probably would, which instantly recreates the land border problem. Tho this time without the threats of violence or relations with a foreign government getting in the way. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:53 - Sep 6 with 5303 views | Guthrum |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:24 - Sep 6 by lowhouseblue |
and if it's a hung parliament with a similar split and a remain majority? it promises to be the least predictable election imaginable - amounting to nothing more that a random re-throw of the dice.
i would have thought that a hung parliament must be the even money bet at this point? |
That's why I said 'can form a government', not "wins". I believe it's inevitably going to be a Hung Parliament, it's just a matter of who can put together a coalition or alliance to get a working majority.
The problem Johnson has is that he lacks sizeable natural allies. I think it unlikely the Brexit Party will win more than one or two seats, if any. The DUP is already pretty much at maximum possible strength. Might be a couple more Independents or odd bods. That's maybe 15 at most he can add to his own numbers.
He's much, much further away from the LibDems than Cameron was in 2010, plus the leader is a lot more hostile. The SNP are extraordinarily unlikely to come alongside. The Green(s) won't, either. All the above are far more likely to be willing to prop up a weak Labour government than a Tory one. | |
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