| omg emily thornberry just said 23:27 - Sep 5 with 22884 views | Trequartista |
If labour win an election they will negotiate a new deal with the eu and then have a referendum and campaign against the deal they have negiotiated.
Now i know the twtd bubble is only concerned with booting johnson but back in the real world the weakest most chaotic government in history is about 8 points clear of labour. And with statements like the aforementioned how can they expect anyone to vote for that? |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:54 - Sep 6 with 2164 views | BrixtonBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:30 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Labour have no clue.
They have been offered an election and then back away putting up multiple 'only when.....' answers.
She was hapless.
In fact I think they are all hapless right now.
Should have voted for Hunt. More calm and measured than the current muppets. |
LOL. Your clusterF of a government are possibly the worst in history. In caveman governments they have more of a clue.
It'll be the end of the Tories soon, and good riddance. Hopefully a more caring, inclusive society will emerge from this madness. |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:59 - Sep 6 with 2154 views | BloomBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:29 - Sep 6 by Herbivore |
How would the opposition agree a withdrawal agreement? |
That was why I'm asking the question, I'm confused by the original post. But it did indicate she said Labour would renegotiate even if a deal was agreed and to get a deal some of opposition would have to vote for it. I'm guessing enough Labour MPs could vote for the May deal when it comes back to the HoC for it to win. |  | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:03 - Sep 6 with 2147 views | BrixtonBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 07:26 - Sep 6 by Herbivore |
I don't think it's that hard a sell actually: "We respect that there are strong views on both sides and that a majority of people wanted to leave in 2016. On that basis we want to negotiate the best deal that we can to respect the referendum result. However we feel that, on balance, no deal can improve on the relationship we already have with the EU and those who told you otherwise in 2016 were lying. On that basis we feel the people should be given the choice to say whether they still want to leave, but as a party we have taken the decision that we will support remain because it is the outcome that most safeguards jobs, the NHS, and the economy for our voters".
Politics has become so binary though that if you don't fanatically pick a side people can't grasp what it is that you're trying to do.
The Tories position is as much of a fudge in some respects. They clearly are moving towards no deal but they know that's not palatable to many of their voters so they are having to pretend they want a deal, whilst simultaneously doing nothing to try and get a deal. Whilst Labour's policy looks confused, at least it's not patently dishonest. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 7:29]
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This is the entirely (and only) sensible course of action. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:06 - Sep 6 with 2141 views | footers |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:54 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue |
LOL. Your clusterF of a government are possibly the worst in history. In caveman governments they have more of a clue.
It'll be the end of the Tories soon, and good riddance. Hopefully a more caring, inclusive society will emerge from this madness. |
Unfortunately it takes real devastation for society as a whole to realise our dependence on each other. Last time was the second world war. Now, the generation which piggy-backed off the war generation has almost gone full circle in pulling up the ladder and destroying the institutions which enabled them to get through life so easily.
We're still suffering from the selfish individualism Thatcher instilled in our society, and I doubt that's going to change any time soon. Oh well.
"There's no such thing as society"
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:07 - Sep 6 with 2139 views | lowhouseblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:59 - Sep 6 by BloomBlue |
That was why I'm asking the question, I'm confused by the original post. But it did indicate she said Labour would renegotiate even if a deal was agreed and to get a deal some of opposition would have to vote for it. I'm guessing enough Labour MPs could vote for the May deal when it comes back to the HoC for it to win. |
it would be fascinating if boris brought the edited version of may's deal back next week - he won't. he would then be able to go into the election saying - they won't let me negotiate; they've blocked no deal; they still won't support the only deal that's been negotiated; and they've blocked a general election which would have let you have a say before the deadline.
i think you'd be up to about 50 labour mps voting for the may deal now. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:08 - Sep 6 with 2133 views | m14_blue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:07 - Sep 6 by lowhouseblue |
it would be fascinating if boris brought the edited version of may's deal back next week - he won't. he would then be able to go into the election saying - they won't let me negotiate; they've blocked no deal; they still won't support the only deal that's been negotiated; and they've blocked a general election which would have let you have a say before the deadline.
i think you'd be up to about 50 labour mps voting for the may deal now. |
As a fairly passionate remainer, I hope he does bring it back and I hope the MP's support it.
He won't though and, if he does, they won't. |  | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:14 - Sep 6 with 2113 views | WeWereZombies |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 07:21 - Sep 6 by m14_blue |
It’s a terrible idea politically.
How do they sell that on the doorstep to either passionate brexiteers or remainers? |
Anyone who has read this forum over the last three and a half years will know that I am pretty resolutely for remaining in the European Union but if a Labour canvasser came to my door and put a plausible case for something like a Norway style deal I would at least listen to them, I think with the country as divided as it is I could do no less. Whether I would vote Labour as a result of the discussion would rest on more than that but we do need such an approach to get us out of this impasse and make things right for the future. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 11:41]
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:15 - Sep 6 with 2111 views | StokieBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:24 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue |
There are various reasons given in the article if you actually read it! |
I did read it. Plenty of quotes from Labour themselves, none from the people registering saying their intentions.
I am just going from the latest real poll which was the European elections which saw a move of young voters away from Labour to the Lib Dems didn't it?
SB [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 10:16]
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:37 - Sep 6 with 2075 views | BrixtonBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:15 - Sep 6 by StokieBlue |
I did read it. Plenty of quotes from Labour themselves, none from the people registering saying their intentions.
I am just going from the latest real poll which was the European elections which saw a move of young voters away from Labour to the Lib Dems didn't it?
SB [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 10:16]
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It really feels like you didn't read it very closely. I'm not going back through the whole article again, but just a quick return and I've pulled this quote;
"figures such as Dr James Sloan at Royal Holloway University argue that, beyond the issue of electoral turnout, there was a step-change in youth political participation, as young people were attracted in large numbers to Jeremy Corbyn’s message."
You can't get any more unequivocal than that.
The European elections feel like a distant memory after all that's gone on. Hundreds of thousands have registered to vote since then as well.
Polls have been notoriously unreliable in recent years anyway, without even factoring all these new, mostly young, voters joining in. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:02 - Sep 6 with 2055 views | BloomBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:37 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue |
It really feels like you didn't read it very closely. I'm not going back through the whole article again, but just a quick return and I've pulled this quote;
"figures such as Dr James Sloan at Royal Holloway University argue that, beyond the issue of electoral turnout, there was a step-change in youth political participation, as young people were attracted in large numbers to Jeremy Corbyn’s message."
You can't get any more unequivocal than that.
The European elections feel like a distant memory after all that's gone on. Hundreds of thousands have registered to vote since then as well.
Polls have been notoriously unreliable in recent years anyway, without even factoring all these new, mostly young, voters joining in. |
The BBC had this story last night and they spoke to three who had just registered and not sure how random those 3 were but all indicated they would vote LibDem because of their firm commitment to remain. | | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:20 - Sep 6 with 2045 views | BrixtonBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:02 - Sep 6 by BloomBlue |
The BBC had this story last night and they spoke to three who had just registered and not sure how random those 3 were but all indicated they would vote LibDem because of their firm commitment to remain. |
Wow, 3 people you say? Might as well dissolve parliament and put the Lib Dems in now. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:30 - Sep 6 with 2033 views | GlasgowBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 08:27 - Sep 6 by Guthrum |
Which is why I think the LibDems will be the big gainers from this. Most people can see through what Labour are doing.
The angrier Leavers will vote Farage Party (or not vote at all if they don't stand). The Remainers who weren't students in the mid 2010s will go LibDem, those who were will opt for the Greens. All the Habituals will vote Labour as their parents and grandparents always did.
Can't see that many switching directly to the "hated" Tories, maybe a few who have already been backing Farage for an election or two. |
The Lib Dem’s are becoming serious players. Daily defections to them from all sides. |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:32 - Sep 6 with 2035 views | Bluedandy |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:06 - Sep 6 by footers |
Unfortunately it takes real devastation for society as a whole to realise our dependence on each other. Last time was the second world war. Now, the generation which piggy-backed off the war generation has almost gone full circle in pulling up the ladder and destroying the institutions which enabled them to get through life so easily.
We're still suffering from the selfish individualism Thatcher instilled in our society, and I doubt that's going to change any time soon. Oh well.
"There's no such thing as society"
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I think we have been through a period when too many people have been given to understand that when they have a problem it is government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant. I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They are casting their problems on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no governments can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours. People have got their entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There is no such thing as an entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation. | | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:36 - Sep 6 with 2022 views | GlasgowBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:53 - Sep 6 by Guthrum |
That's why I said 'can form a government', not "wins". I believe it's inevitably going to be a Hung Parliament, it's just a matter of who can put together a coalition or alliance to get a working majority.
The problem Johnson has is that he lacks sizeable natural allies. I think it unlikely the Brexit Party will win more than one or two seats, if any. The DUP is already pretty much at maximum possible strength. Might be a couple more Independents or odd bods. That's maybe 15 at most he can add to his own numbers.
He's much, much further away from the LibDems than Cameron was in 2010, plus the leader is a lot more hostile. The SNP are extraordinarily unlikely to come alongside. The Green(s) won't, either. All the above are far more likely to be willing to prop up a weak Labour government than a Tory one. |
If we continue to have hung parliaments then it’s time to move to a more proportional system of electing MPs. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:36 - Sep 6 with 2021 views | WeWereZombies |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:30 - Sep 6 by GlasgowBlue |
The Lib Dem’s are becoming serious players. Daily defections to them from all sides. |
Do you think that Jo Swinson's Edinburgh seat is in danger of going to the SNP if a General Election does get called, though?
[edit} https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49595385 [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 11:37]
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:56 - Sep 6 with 1994 views | eireblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:32 - Sep 6 by Bluedandy |
I think we have been through a period when too many people have been given to understand that when they have a problem it is government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant. I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They are casting their problems on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no governments can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours. People have got their entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There is no such thing as an entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation. |
That is just rubbish.
Why do you only reference a lack of society and individual responsibility when it comes to things like homelessness and needing money.
If there is no society and just individuals looking after themselves, and then neighbours, what do do about cancer or policing, or wars.
Not have a police force, army or a health service.
If you get stabbed during a robbery, do you pop around to a neighbours hoping that the couple next door consist of someone with rudimentary sewing skills, fast runner, and also have a convenient basement to lock someone up in.
Of course there is a society. |  | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:07 - Sep 6 with 1985 views | footers |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:32 - Sep 6 by Bluedandy |
I think we have been through a period when too many people have been given to understand that when they have a problem it is government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant. I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They are casting their problems on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no governments can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours. People have got their entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There is no such thing as an entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation. |
Think you've got a few hundred years of Western history to catch up on. Rousseau might be a good place to start.
I know a lot of people are trying to rip up the social contract as we speak, but some of us still think it's a pretty good idea. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:11 - Sep 6 with 1979 views | chicoazul |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 10:06 - Sep 6 by footers |
Unfortunately it takes real devastation for society as a whole to realise our dependence on each other. Last time was the second world war. Now, the generation which piggy-backed off the war generation has almost gone full circle in pulling up the ladder and destroying the institutions which enabled them to get through life so easily.
We're still suffering from the selfish individualism Thatcher instilled in our society, and I doubt that's going to change any time soon. Oh well.
"There's no such thing as society"
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Good to see you too are slowly coming round to my socially-conservative way of thinking brother. We'll have you campaigning for new grammar schools in no time! |  |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:12 - Sep 6 with 1976 views | CoachRob |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:32 - Sep 6 by Bluedandy |
I think we have been through a period when too many people have been given to understand that when they have a problem it is government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant. I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They are casting their problems on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no governments can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours. People have got their entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There is no such thing as an entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation. |
Is this the opening paragraph to the next Tory manifesto? |  | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:17 - Sep 6 with 1967 views | GlasgowBlue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 09:24 - Sep 6 by BrixtonBlue |
There are various reasons given in the article if you actually read it! |
This could be a good indicator of where the pro EU labour vote is going
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:32 - Sep 6 with 1935 views | Bluedandy |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 11:56 - Sep 6 by eireblue |
That is just rubbish.
Why do you only reference a lack of society and individual responsibility when it comes to things like homelessness and needing money.
If there is no society and just individuals looking after themselves, and then neighbours, what do do about cancer or policing, or wars.
Not have a police force, army or a health service.
If you get stabbed during a robbery, do you pop around to a neighbours hoping that the couple next door consist of someone with rudimentary sewing skills, fast runner, and also have a convenient basement to lock someone up in.
Of course there is a society. |
That's the full Thatcher quote ... intended to provide a little more context.
Oh you didn't realise ... funny. | | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:35 - Sep 6 with 1927 views | eireblue |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:32 - Sep 6 by Bluedandy |
That's the full Thatcher quote ... intended to provide a little more context.
Oh you didn't realise ... funny. |
No I didn’t, why would I?
Crikey, did people put up with that rubbish at the time. | | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:40 - Sep 6 with 1912 views | footers |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:35 - Sep 6 by eireblue |
No I didn’t, why would I?
Crikey, did people put up with that rubbish at the time. |
Weird how on the one hand people are burdening society with their homelessness and on the other it doesn't exist.
Cosmic. | |
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| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:47 - Sep 6 with 1901 views | Bluedandy |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:07 - Sep 6 by footers |
Think you've got a few hundred years of Western history to catch up on. Rousseau might be a good place to start.
I know a lot of people are trying to rip up the social contract as we speak, but some of us still think it's a pretty good idea. |
Thanks for the tip Michael ... we can catch up together ... any biography on the life of Margaret Thatcher might be an equally good place for you to start. | | | |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:58 - Sep 6 with 1887 views | footers |
| omg emily thornberry just said on 12:47 - Sep 6 by Bluedandy |
Thanks for the tip Michael ... we can catch up together ... any biography on the life of Margaret Thatcher might be an equally good place for you to start. |
I know enough about soft serve ice cream and selfish cnts not to need it, thanks! | |
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