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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail 13:12 - Oct 15 with 2154 viewsElderGrizzly

Because probation officers said they worried they would struggle in jail. Diddums.

Woefully weak from the judge

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/15/derby-tom-lawrence-mason-bennet
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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 13:15 - Oct 15 with 1751 viewsIpswichKnight

That's unduly lenient and will end up back with the appeal court judges, the very least they should have received a suspended sentence and the 2 year ban is a joke it should have been 3.
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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 13:18 - Oct 15 with 1707 viewsHerbivore

It's not the norm to get jail time for drink driving when it's a first offence.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 13:37 - Oct 15 with 1608 viewsRyorry

Seems to me that 99% of humans would "struggle in jail."

Thought that was the point.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:04 - Oct 15 with 1499 viewsfactual_blue

The judiciary's instructions are to treat jail as a last resort.

We send too many people to prison as it is.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:13 - Oct 15 with 1448 viewsThatMuhrenCross

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:04 - Oct 15 by factual_blue

The judiciary's instructions are to treat jail as a last resort.

We send too many people to prison as it is.


We don't send nearly enough. We should build larger, tougher jails with zero human rights for the worst offenders, leaving the paedos and child killers to rot in their own faeces.

The more cushty jails can be reserved for the less serious offenders.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:16 - Oct 15 with 1432 viewsbritbiker

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 13:37 - Oct 15 by Ryorry

Seems to me that 99% of humans would "struggle in jail."

Thought that was the point.


Bet there aren't many cases where offenders state they would thrive in prison. I guess 180 hours of football related 'community service' await them.
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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:18 - Oct 15 with 1418 viewsBluefish

He has a local reputation as being a very weak judge. Fro. What I understand it was probably quite a normal punishment for the crime. We would all like to see more done because of the high profile nature though

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:21 - Oct 15 with 1397 viewsHerbivore

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:13 - Oct 15 by ThatMuhrenCross

We don't send nearly enough. We should build larger, tougher jails with zero human rights for the worst offenders, leaving the paedos and child killers to rot in their own faeces.

The more cushty jails can be reserved for the less serious offenders.


We definitely send too many to prison. Perhaps if prison was actually effective in reducing reoffending then it might be worth considering using it more, but since it's not I don't see the value in locking more people up for relatively minor crimes.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:39 - Oct 15 with 1347 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:13 - Oct 15 by ThatMuhrenCross

We don't send nearly enough. We should build larger, tougher jails with zero human rights for the worst offenders, leaving the paedos and child killers to rot in their own faeces.

The more cushty jails can be reserved for the less serious offenders.


It depends what kind of society you want to live in.

I don't want murderers or paedophiles roaming the streets either, but there is a need to separate out people who have made a mistake, deserve to be punished, given a second chance and can go on to live decent lives from people who are scum who will never learn.

I am appalled by drink driving, but let's not getting behind the wheel when potentially prohibited from making the right call in that situation in the same ball park as knowingly going out to kill or harm people.

They deserve to be heavily, heavily punished, which is the case here with public humiliation, thousands in lost wages, a loss of trust, their families being ashamed of them most likely, community service and driving bans. That's substantial and they can go on and learn from this and never make a mistake like it again, or you can lock them up, potentially ruin their lives and lead them down a completely different path.

Jail should be for people that have knowingly and consciously broken serious laws or lead to serious consequences. This one for me was borderline, but given what they have endured as a result of their idiocy, I'd say it's about right and gives them a chance to become better people for the shame of what they did.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:50 - Oct 15 with 1295 viewsPilgrimblue

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:39 - Oct 15 by WarkTheWarkITFC

It depends what kind of society you want to live in.

I don't want murderers or paedophiles roaming the streets either, but there is a need to separate out people who have made a mistake, deserve to be punished, given a second chance and can go on to live decent lives from people who are scum who will never learn.

I am appalled by drink driving, but let's not getting behind the wheel when potentially prohibited from making the right call in that situation in the same ball park as knowingly going out to kill or harm people.

They deserve to be heavily, heavily punished, which is the case here with public humiliation, thousands in lost wages, a loss of trust, their families being ashamed of them most likely, community service and driving bans. That's substantial and they can go on and learn from this and never make a mistake like it again, or you can lock them up, potentially ruin their lives and lead them down a completely different path.

Jail should be for people that have knowingly and consciously broken serious laws or lead to serious consequences. This one for me was borderline, but given what they have endured as a result of their idiocy, I'd say it's about right and gives them a chance to become better people for the shame of what they did.


Well said
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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:14 - Oct 15 with 1219 viewsfactual_blue

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:39 - Oct 15 by WarkTheWarkITFC

It depends what kind of society you want to live in.

I don't want murderers or paedophiles roaming the streets either, but there is a need to separate out people who have made a mistake, deserve to be punished, given a second chance and can go on to live decent lives from people who are scum who will never learn.

I am appalled by drink driving, but let's not getting behind the wheel when potentially prohibited from making the right call in that situation in the same ball park as knowingly going out to kill or harm people.

They deserve to be heavily, heavily punished, which is the case here with public humiliation, thousands in lost wages, a loss of trust, their families being ashamed of them most likely, community service and driving bans. That's substantial and they can go on and learn from this and never make a mistake like it again, or you can lock them up, potentially ruin their lives and lead them down a completely different path.

Jail should be for people that have knowingly and consciously broken serious laws or lead to serious consequences. This one for me was borderline, but given what they have endured as a result of their idiocy, I'd say it's about right and gives them a chance to become better people for the shame of what they did.


I would also make them press the button on the car crusher to mash the car used, even if it didn't belong to them (the owner's insurers would take over here).

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:15 - Oct 15 with 1219 viewssparks

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:39 - Oct 15 by WarkTheWarkITFC

It depends what kind of society you want to live in.

I don't want murderers or paedophiles roaming the streets either, but there is a need to separate out people who have made a mistake, deserve to be punished, given a second chance and can go on to live decent lives from people who are scum who will never learn.

I am appalled by drink driving, but let's not getting behind the wheel when potentially prohibited from making the right call in that situation in the same ball park as knowingly going out to kill or harm people.

They deserve to be heavily, heavily punished, which is the case here with public humiliation, thousands in lost wages, a loss of trust, their families being ashamed of them most likely, community service and driving bans. That's substantial and they can go on and learn from this and never make a mistake like it again, or you can lock them up, potentially ruin their lives and lead them down a completely different path.

Jail should be for people that have knowingly and consciously broken serious laws or lead to serious consequences. This one for me was borderline, but given what they have endured as a result of their idiocy, I'd say it's about right and gives them a chance to become better people for the shame of what they did.


2 issues with that post.

1. This was not a mistake. It was a choice.
2. The difference between this and a murderer is largely down to luck and intent. The difference between wanting to kill and being reckless as to whether you kill is not massive.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:15 - Oct 15 with 1217 viewsfactual_blue

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:21 - Oct 15 by Herbivore

We definitely send too many to prison. Perhaps if prison was actually effective in reducing reoffending then it might be worth considering using it more, but since it's not I don't see the value in locking more people up for relatively minor crimes.


And with the average cost per week for a each prisoner being around £30,000....

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:36 - Oct 15 with 1139 viewsHerbivore

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:15 - Oct 15 by factual_blue

And with the average cost per week for a each prisoner being around £30,000....


Their wages would cover it.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:39 - Oct 15 with 1132 viewsitfcjoe

They avoided jail because most people do for drink driving - they could hardly be made an example of because would have a legal team that would have appealed that and won

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:40 - Oct 15 with 1132 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:15 - Oct 15 by sparks

2 issues with that post.

1. This was not a mistake. It was a choice.
2. The difference between this and a murderer is largely down to luck and intent. The difference between wanting to kill and being reckless as to whether you kill is not massive.


Aren't you claiming to be a lawyer or something?

If they'd killed someone it would be manslaughter and not murder.

They made a choice, which turned out to be a mistake, whilst under the influence, when the choices you make are impaired. So automatically it's not the same thing as choosing to do so when you are sober, regardless of whether what they did is disgusting or not.

Your second point is utterly ridiculous. 'The difference between this is intent'. You don't say Sherlock! You've literally made my point. They didn't INTEND to hurt anyone but they did because they were drunk and made a stupid choice.

It's disgusting but let's not pretend it's the same as going out and trying to kill someone FFS!

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:40 - Oct 15 with 1127 viewsBlueBadger

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:16 - Oct 15 by britbiker

Bet there aren't many cases where offenders state they would thrive in prison. I guess 180 hours of football related 'community service' await them.


In all fairness, they'll probably do society more good by getting out into the community, learning some humility and helping out someone rather than sitting in a cell needing close watching because they're 'celebrities' and some lag wants to boost his nick-cred by duffing them up.
[Post edited 15 Oct 15:41]

These people are called idiots and BB is their leader.
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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:48 - Oct 15 with 1068 viewssparks

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:40 - Oct 15 by WarkTheWarkITFC

Aren't you claiming to be a lawyer or something?

If they'd killed someone it would be manslaughter and not murder.

They made a choice, which turned out to be a mistake, whilst under the influence, when the choices you make are impaired. So automatically it's not the same thing as choosing to do so when you are sober, regardless of whether what they did is disgusting or not.

Your second point is utterly ridiculous. 'The difference between this is intent'. You don't say Sherlock! You've literally made my point. They didn't INTEND to hurt anyone but they did because they were drunk and made a stupid choice.

It's disgusting but let's not pretend it's the same as going out and trying to kill someone FFS!


You appear to not understand what I wrote and to be something of an aplogist.

There is not a massive line between recklessness and intent.

And the reason noone got killed or maimed was luck.

Take a deep breath and think about it.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:52 - Oct 15 with 1044 viewsGaryCooper

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 14:21 - Oct 15 by Herbivore

We definitely send too many to prison. Perhaps if prison was actually effective in reducing reoffending then it might be worth considering using it more, but since it's not I don't see the value in locking more people up for relatively minor crimes.


Perhaps if the repeat offenders were sent top prison early enough then they would not repeat.
There are many cases of people who have stabbed others or been caught carrying knives receiving non custodial sentences going on to stab and sometimes kill at a later date.
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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:54 - Oct 15 with 1030 viewsHerbivore

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:52 - Oct 15 by GaryCooper

Perhaps if the repeat offenders were sent top prison early enough then they would not repeat.
There are many cases of people who have stabbed others or been caught carrying knives receiving non custodial sentences going on to stab and sometimes kill at a later date.


I'd like to see some decent evidence for any of this.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:54 - Oct 15 with 1035 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:48 - Oct 15 by sparks

You appear to not understand what I wrote and to be something of an aplogist.

There is not a massive line between recklessness and intent.

And the reason noone got killed or maimed was luck.

Take a deep breath and think about it.


You appear to understand very little.

A work colleague of mine didn't turn up on a Monday once because she'd been killed by a drink driver whilst she was walking home that weekend.

There is a massive line between recklessness and intent. No drink driving is acceptable. But there is a big difference between hurting someone through being reckless and hurting someone through intending to hurt them.

You're telling me that running someone over when distracted by your phone going off is not a world away from deliberately targeting that person and running them down?

Nobody got killed and it is luck. But that luck has a massive part to play in sentencing. It's why Luke McCormack, who was twice over the limit, went to prison for years for killing two children, when somebody six times over the limit who hits a brick wall can walk away with community service.

It's wrong that luck is so heavily involved, but that's how these things work. People have gone to prison for 5 years for killing someone with one punch, when other people have not gone to jail when they've repeatedly punched someone, just because of the way the two victims fell. In that case recklessness and intent can literally be reversed rather than close.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:55 - Oct 15 with 1029 viewsSwansea_Blue

Don't seem unreasonable sentences given the guidelines given here (assuming they're correct). https://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driving_sentencing_guidelines.php

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:56 - Oct 15 with 1020 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:54 - Oct 15 by Herbivore

I'd like to see some decent evidence for any of this.


There are literally hundreds of examples going back years. You think that every person that stabs someone to death has picked up a knife for the first time?

There are countless examples of people that should be in prison or a mental hospital being deemed fit to be back in society and then carrying out violent crimes again.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:58 - Oct 15 with 1006 viewssparks

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:54 - Oct 15 by WarkTheWarkITFC

You appear to understand very little.

A work colleague of mine didn't turn up on a Monday once because she'd been killed by a drink driver whilst she was walking home that weekend.

There is a massive line between recklessness and intent. No drink driving is acceptable. But there is a big difference between hurting someone through being reckless and hurting someone through intending to hurt them.

You're telling me that running someone over when distracted by your phone going off is not a world away from deliberately targeting that person and running them down?

Nobody got killed and it is luck. But that luck has a massive part to play in sentencing. It's why Luke McCormack, who was twice over the limit, went to prison for years for killing two children, when somebody six times over the limit who hits a brick wall can walk away with community service.

It's wrong that luck is so heavily involved, but that's how these things work. People have gone to prison for 5 years for killing someone with one punch, when other people have not gone to jail when they've repeatedly punched someone, just because of the way the two victims fell. In that case recklessness and intent can literally be reversed rather than close.


Explain why there is a huge difference between wanting to harm someone and doing something ypu know has a good chance of doing so and not caring enough to refrain.

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Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 16:00 - Oct 15 with 984 viewsheavyweight

Lawerence and Bennett avoided jail on 15:15 - Oct 15 by factual_blue

And with the average cost per week for a each prisoner being around £30,000....


Don't think that figure is per week - maybe a bit more than that per year
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