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So “the elite” are going to be under attack from Labour. Who are they? Top surgeons? Top sportsmen and women? Scientists? I think they need to be a bit more specific., or just stick to “the corrupt”
Personally, I reckon you're right about this being a populist message, but its obviously been decided that to fight and beat Boris, they'll have counter his 'parliment vs the people' line. Fight fire with fire....
It's very well written imho and could just help turn the tables. And those tables really should be turned given that Boris really does represent *an* elite (there are plenty of categories out there) who really are looking to fck the plebs (like me!).
I'm surprisingly heartenned by it.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2019 11:37]
exciting times. i have no idea how widely it will resonate. it needs to go beyond those who already see things in those terms - i don't know if it will or won't. how it will all play out seems completely unpredictable to me.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
my concern is that it is superficial, contentless, and populist. reducing the economic and social problems in the uk down to a list of 'elite' individuals is low level, simplistic, sloganizing. as people have pointed out, it isn't really all that different form someone on the right saying our problems are all down to immigrants or the eu. why is populism on the left better than populism on the right?
I only started this thread to point out a very loose use of language, not to make a political point per se. I suppose that this will be repeated throughout the election campaign by all parties. Very few people actually read the manifestos, so they only remember these sound bites.
Unfortunately I don't play games anymore. That sounds like amazing fun though!
My only frame of reference is the original Elite which was magnificent.
SB
It's very, very slow to get going, but once you've got enough money for a decent ship the galaxy is your oyster. I spent a number iof happy hours trying to reach the centre of the galaxy. I didn't get there, I ran out of fuel about halfway there due to a lack of suitable suns to perform fuel scooping on and ended up with my avatar dying of suffocation due to the ship's oxygen supply running out and as I hadn't insured my ship(it took all my money to get it how I wanted and was impatient to set out) , I couldn't face the long grind to get back where I was at.
This video shows how lovely it can be - try skipping ahead to around 1:30 for a great example.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2019 12:05]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
exciting times. i have no idea how widely it will resonate. it needs to go beyond those who already see things in those terms - i don't know if it will or won't. how it will all play out seems completely unpredictable to me.
Yeah I guess it could all fall flat and partly because of who the messanger is. As you say, fascinating times.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Yeah I guess it could all fall flat and partly because of who the messanger is. As you say, fascinating times.
it's not all that different a headline message from 2017. but in 2017 lots of people were seeing corbyn for the first time and probably heard what he was saying without cynicism. i suspect that's true for fewer people now. but who knows.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
it's not all that different a headline message from 2017. but in 2017 lots of people were seeing corbyn for the first time and probably heard what he was saying without cynicism. i suspect that's true for fewer people now. but who knows.
I hope you're wrong. I fear you're right.
Whatever happens at the end, I'm pretty sure that this will be an awful election campaign that further drives a wedge between people in this country.
Yay.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
It's very, very slow to get going, but once you've got enough money for a decent ship the galaxy is your oyster. I spent a number iof happy hours trying to reach the centre of the galaxy. I didn't get there, I ran out of fuel about halfway there due to a lack of suitable suns to perform fuel scooping on and ended up with my avatar dying of suffocation due to the ship's oxygen supply running out and as I hadn't insured my ship(it took all my money to get it how I wanted and was impatient to set out) , I couldn't face the long grind to get back where I was at.
This video shows how lovely it can be - try skipping ahead to around 1:30 for a great example.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2019 12:05]
Agree fantastic game, although you should never fly without rebuy!
Logged in just to give this an uppie. There really aren’t that many who fall into the truly ‘elite’ catagory. In my experience There are many more working or working middle class that do all they can to avoid tax, and many others who don’t work that could.
Probably more the politics of being fed up of exploited and sh!t on.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The guardian have just posted an extract of his speach which explains:
You know what really scares the elite?
What they’re actually afraid of is paying their taxes. So in this election they’ll fight harder and dirtier than ever before. They’ll throw everything at us because they know we’re not afraid to take them on.
So we’re going after the tax dodgers. We’re going after the dodgy landlords. We’re going after the bad bosses. We’re going after the big polluters. Because we know whose side we’re on.
So are you on the side of the tax dodgers, who are taking us all for a ride? People who think it’s ok to rip people off, hide their money in tax havens so they can have a new super yacht. Or the children with special educational needs who aren’t getting the support they deserve because of Tory and Lib Dem government cuts?
Whose side are you on? The dodgy landlords, like the Duke of Westminster, Britain’s youngest billionaire, who tried to evict whole blocks of families, to make way for luxury apartments? Or the millions of tenants in Britain who struggle to pay their rent each month?
Whose side are you on? The bad bosses like Mike Ashley, the billionaire who won’t pay his staff properly and is running Newcastle United into the ground? Or his exploited workforce, like the woman who was reportedly forced to give birth in a warehouse toilet because she was terrified of missing her shift?
Whose side are you on? The big polluters like Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s richest man who makes his money by polluting the environment? Or the children growing up in our cities with reduced lung capacity because of choking pollution?
“Whose side are you on? The greedy bankers like Crispin Odey, who makes millions betting against our country and on other people’s misery and donated huge sums to Johnson and the Conservative Party? Or are you on the side of working people, the people who create the wealth that’s then squirreled away in tax havens?
And whose side are you on? The billionaire media barons like Rupert Murdoch, whose empire pumps out propaganda to support a rigged system. Or the overwhelming majority who want to live in a decent, fair, diverse and prosperous society?
You know whose side Labour’s on. And we have something that the Rupert Murdochs, the Mike Ashleys, and the Boris Johnsons don’t have.
We have people. Hundreds of thousands of people in every part of our country, who will make this the biggest people-powered campaign in history.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2019 9:38]
All nice sentiments, but if this is who he’s going after then he’s gunning for a very few people. There are actually only a few thousand like that in this country.
All nice sentiments, but if this is who he’s going after then he’s gunning for a very few people. There are actually only a few thousand like that in this country.
Indeed. And they won't pay for their programme. Which means it's the middle class folks who will cop it.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Indeed. And they won't pay for their programme. Which means it's the middle class folks who will cop it.
At least it wouldn't be the working class as per, eh? I wouldn't mind paying a bit more tax, would you?
Besides, most of that increased tax revenue would come from corporation tax and tightening up of personal loopholes, tax havens. Something the Tories have been weirdly reticent about doing. Wonder why.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
My cousin is one of the top skin specialists in the UK. Her husband is a surgeon. They both work ridiculously hard and are paid very well, have a large house in north London and a beautiful house in Suffolk and other assets. They are very wealthy people. By most definitions they are part of ‘the elite’.
If Mr Corbyn goes after ‘the elite’, these are precisely the people he will go for because they pay their taxes and have tangible assets. Unlike people who are paid cash in hand or big corporations, they are ‘captive’. Is this a good thing? Should they manage with a little bit less for the sake of the ‘many’? What if they decide that Mr Corbyn’s great vision is not for them and decide to take their obvious talents abroad? No more taxes from them and a loss of their skills to the people of this country.
I think it’s right to go after non taxpayers, the rules around large corporations, criminals (some of whom have assets amounting to £millions) etc, but Mr Corbyn needs to be a bit more specific about it.
My cousin is one of the top skin specialists in the UK. Her husband is a surgeon. They both work ridiculously hard and are paid very well, have a large house in north London and a beautiful house in Suffolk and other assets. They are very wealthy people. By most definitions they are part of ‘the elite’.
If Mr Corbyn goes after ‘the elite’, these are precisely the people he will go for because they pay their taxes and have tangible assets. Unlike people who are paid cash in hand or big corporations, they are ‘captive’. Is this a good thing? Should they manage with a little bit less for the sake of the ‘many’? What if they decide that Mr Corbyn’s great vision is not for them and decide to take their obvious talents abroad? No more taxes from them and a loss of their skills to the people of this country.
I think it’s right to go after non taxpayers, the rules around large corporations, criminals (some of whom have assets amounting to £millions) etc, but Mr Corbyn needs to be a bit more specific about it.
Given that the UK already has one of the lowest personal tax rates for high earners in the Western world, would your 'very wealthy' relatives really feel the burden of a few percentage point increases on that? From what you've said it doesn't really seem like it. Likely it would be less of a financial burden than upping sticks and moving elsewhere.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
At least it wouldn't be the working class as per, eh? I wouldn't mind paying a bit more tax, would you?
Besides, most of that increased tax revenue would come from corporation tax and tightening up of personal loopholes, tax havens. Something the Tories have been weirdly reticent about doing. Wonder why.
Is it wise to up corporation tax whilst making it less attractive to trade from a UK base given we will likely be outside the EU?
I've no problem upping corporation tax, just playing devils advocate that not everything is black and white - many things, especially with the economy, are interconnected.
Totally agree on Amazon et al paying more tax, it's ridiculous what they get away with but this will need a concerted international effort to close loopholes in order to make a proper impact. It should be done though.
At least it wouldn't be the working class as per, eh? I wouldn't mind paying a bit more tax, would you?
Besides, most of that increased tax revenue would come from corporation tax and tightening up of personal loopholes, tax havens. Something the Tories have been weirdly reticent about doing. Wonder why.
Im paying plenty and have been affected by tory tax rises... importantly any objection by me to paying more would be directly linked to concern about how it would be spent. Corbyns ideology is problematic in that regard.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett)
Is it wise to up corporation tax whilst making it less attractive to trade from a UK base given we will likely be outside the EU?
I've no problem upping corporation tax, just playing devils advocate that not everything is black and white - many things, especially with the economy, are interconnected.
Totally agree on Amazon et al paying more tax, it's ridiculous what they get away with but this will need a concerted international effort to close loopholes in order to make a proper impact. It should be done though.
SB
Which is why leaving the EU is such a daft idea right now. If we were serious about clamping down on tax havens we could have done it with the other 27. It can't make any sense for the corporate tax rate to have fallen year-on-year for 40+ years. How did businesses ever cope 10, 20 or 30 years ago? My view is that if businesses want access to one of the most affluent and educated markets in the world, then there is a premium to pay for that. And if they don't want to pay that price there are others who will.
Also, many of the services that these taxes pay for are either directly or indirectly beneficial to business anyhow. They can hire better educated staff, take advantage of improved transport infrastructure and have a happier, healthier workforce. Of course there would need to be tapering levels of corporate tax dependent on size/revenues, though.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
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