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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:03 - Nov 22 by Bluefish
Didn't say that though
Then you are still under the impression that the statistics provided by HMRC are incorrect but your own wild guesses at people’s incomes are more reliable?
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:30 - Nov 22 with 2361 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:26 - Nov 22 by Butterbing
Then you are still under the impression that the statistics provided by HMRC are incorrect but your own wild guesses at people’s incomes are more reliable?
He's been outed "as the son of a Duke" on twitter and been rabidly pilloried on social media of all kinds.
This man is called Ralph. He is the son of a wealthy duke. Sources tell me a BBC producer forced him to not shave and physically thickened his accent to make him sound working class. I can assure you he does not earn £80K because he does not work. He spends "daddy's money". https://t.co/VnzhSSS84B
— Dr Robert 'Rob' Zands PhD #BeKindOnline (@DrRobertZands) November 21, 2019
Also looking at this thread, it seems to embody a really interesting psychological phenomena to do with relative wealth and life course. When people start their careers they tend to be penniless, students for example. They get a starting salary and feel they are suddenly doing really well.
They get a raise or two, money keeps going up and for the first half of their life or so they learn that "work a bit harder, you get a bit more cash, you get a bit happier and secure". Then that plateaus rapidly and suddenly, having a lot compared to many people is obscured because you're in a bubble of similar earners and similar people.
You earn £30k and want £50k, then £70k or £250k pa etc until even when you're earning millions that first billion seems necessary and just a case of doing a bit more. That's a spiral of unhappiness and greed and paranoia that drives a lot of these Tories, even the ones with next to FA, worried someone down the estate is going to rob the flowers out of their garden.
I'd say there's a strong swirl of that in our society right now, made more prominent by this regime of austerity and media collusion.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:30 - Nov 22 by Mullet
He's been outed "as the son of a Duke" on twitter and been rabidly pilloried on social media of all kinds.
This man is called Ralph. He is the son of a wealthy duke. Sources tell me a BBC producer forced him to not shave and physically thickened his accent to make him sound working class. I can assure you he does not earn £80K because he does not work. He spends "daddy's money". https://t.co/VnzhSSS84B
— Dr Robert 'Rob' Zands PhD #BeKindOnline (@DrRobertZands) November 21, 2019
Also looking at this thread, it seems to embody a really interesting psychological phenomena to do with relative wealth and life course. When people start their careers they tend to be penniless, students for example. They get a starting salary and feel they are suddenly doing really well.
They get a raise or two, money keeps going up and for the first half of their life or so they learn that "work a bit harder, you get a bit more cash, you get a bit happier and secure". Then that plateaus rapidly and suddenly, having a lot compared to many people is obscured because you're in a bubble of similar earners and similar people.
You earn £30k and want £50k, then £70k or £250k pa etc until even when you're earning millions that first billion seems necessary and just a case of doing a bit more. That's a spiral of unhappiness and greed and paranoia that drives a lot of these Tories, even the ones with next to FA, worried someone down the estate is going to rob the flowers out of their garden.
I'd say there's a strong swirl of that in our society right now, made more prominent by this regime of austerity and media collusion.
Sorry should have made that a lot clearer, I meant that was one of the many ways and means in which he's been accused and then received dogs for his rant.
The whole truth seems totally alien, every episode of QT alone seems rife with these sorts of accusations. You'd think every member of the audience was some sort of plant designed to undermine and offend the other side.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:30 - Nov 22 by Mullet
He's been outed "as the son of a Duke" on twitter and been rabidly pilloried on social media of all kinds.
This man is called Ralph. He is the son of a wealthy duke. Sources tell me a BBC producer forced him to not shave and physically thickened his accent to make him sound working class. I can assure you he does not earn £80K because he does not work. He spends "daddy's money". https://t.co/VnzhSSS84B
— Dr Robert 'Rob' Zands PhD #BeKindOnline (@DrRobertZands) November 21, 2019
Also looking at this thread, it seems to embody a really interesting psychological phenomena to do with relative wealth and life course. When people start their careers they tend to be penniless, students for example. They get a starting salary and feel they are suddenly doing really well.
They get a raise or two, money keeps going up and for the first half of their life or so they learn that "work a bit harder, you get a bit more cash, you get a bit happier and secure". Then that plateaus rapidly and suddenly, having a lot compared to many people is obscured because you're in a bubble of similar earners and similar people.
You earn £30k and want £50k, then £70k or £250k pa etc until even when you're earning millions that first billion seems necessary and just a case of doing a bit more. That's a spiral of unhappiness and greed and paranoia that drives a lot of these Tories, even the ones with next to FA, worried someone down the estate is going to rob the flowers out of their garden.
I'd say there's a strong swirl of that in our society right now, made more prominent by this regime of austerity and media collusion.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 15:44]
Listening to a podcast the other day (a BBC one I'm pretty sure) and the research* mentioned was something along the lines of:
If people are earning $50,000 they think that $70,000 a year would make them happy. People earning $100,000 said $250,000 was the level they'd need.
Not just a sign of how money doesn't bring happiness, but presumably how the supposed pain of taxation could be felt disproportionately at the upper level. It's like some weird bank balance dysmorphia going on.
*Be interesting to see if this tendency is dramatically different in the UK but not sure why it would be massively different given our similar culture and politics.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 16:37]
Pronouns: He/Him
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:00 - Nov 22 with 2292 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:55 - Nov 22 by Darth_Koont
Listening to a podcast the other day (a BBC one I'm pretty sure) and the research* mentioned was something along the lines of:
If people are earning $50,000 they think that $70,000 a year would make them happy. People earning $100,000 said $250,000 was the level they'd need.
Not just a sign of how money doesn't bring happiness, but presumably how the supposed pain of taxation could be felt disproportionately at the upper level. It's like some weird bank balance dysmorphia going on.
*Be interesting to see if this tendency is dramatically different in the UK but not sure why it would be massively different given our similar culture and politics.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 16:37]
From memory it's an American study which has done the rounds a few times in the last few years. But I guess you can convert $ to £ fairly easily.
There's a lot to it though, it's not just sums, but the bands that puts you in and the lifestyle choices it allows or you make with it.
At the start of the decade we started seeing the research which suggested Britain is now a seven class society and not the traditional three class one of famous comedy sketch. All the big change factors in terms of industry, politics, identity, media, art etc are less linear perhaps.
I guess as the WW2 generation finally disappear, the ripple effects of that conflict are still being measured in all kinds of ways and we are the ones seeing that, whilst still feeling a deep emotional connection to the world of 1945 or so.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:30 - Nov 22 by Bluefish
Definitely
Yeah, who needs experts eh? I'm following your lead. I'm going to start doing my own dentistry. Also, when I go shopping and they tell me it's £14.83 I will tell them they are wrong and pay them what I think it should be. I will also ignore traffic lights because I know better and can safely navigate junctions without their help. Life must be great when you live in a post-expert society. Just trust yourself, you know you're right. Thanks for your helpful guidance as I move to a stress-free delusional paradise.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 13:51 - Nov 22 by Bluefish
It is miles away from reality though and a dodgy statistic. It also highlights the Corbyn problem, you can want to try and tax the top earners but the top earners might have better ways to hide their earnings, if you tax them too much they might also disappear. 100% of 0 is still 0
He said the top 5% of earners not earnings, so for paid individuals on average, out of every 20 people you ask throughout the 50 million they were referring too only 1 will be earning over £80,000 a year.
It wasn't that hard to grasp but seems Mr Beardy looked a complete plumb by using Doctors and Solicitors as an example when in essence very few of these will be on 80k+ either.
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:16 - Nov 22 with 2254 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 15:30 - Nov 22 by Mullet
He's been outed "as the son of a Duke" on twitter and been rabidly pilloried on social media of all kinds.
This man is called Ralph. He is the son of a wealthy duke. Sources tell me a BBC producer forced him to not shave and physically thickened his accent to make him sound working class. I can assure you he does not earn £80K because he does not work. He spends "daddy's money". https://t.co/VnzhSSS84B
— Dr Robert 'Rob' Zands PhD #BeKindOnline (@DrRobertZands) November 21, 2019
Also looking at this thread, it seems to embody a really interesting psychological phenomena to do with relative wealth and life course. When people start their careers they tend to be penniless, students for example. They get a starting salary and feel they are suddenly doing really well.
They get a raise or two, money keeps going up and for the first half of their life or so they learn that "work a bit harder, you get a bit more cash, you get a bit happier and secure". Then that plateaus rapidly and suddenly, having a lot compared to many people is obscured because you're in a bubble of similar earners and similar people.
You earn £30k and want £50k, then £70k or £250k pa etc until even when you're earning millions that first billion seems necessary and just a case of doing a bit more. That's a spiral of unhappiness and greed and paranoia that drives a lot of these Tories, even the ones with next to FA, worried someone down the estate is going to rob the flowers out of their garden.
I'd say there's a strong swirl of that in our society right now, made more prominent by this regime of austerity and media collusion.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 15:44]
I think that sums up Twitter completely. Someone with a a PhD and tagline of "BeKindOnline" posts complete b0llocks. So much for it being the uneducated who believe everything they read online!
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 16:26]
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:30 - Nov 22 with 2229 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 13:46 - Nov 22 by Swansea_Blue
Earners. Everyone who's paid a wage as recorded by HMRC.
I know what you're saying. It's very easy to assess relative pay of wage earners because it's all recorded. It's much harder to work out wealth as that can be moved around or even moved out of the country. So earnings on wealth is much harder to quantify. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/22/factcheck-earning-80000-or-more
Anyone who earns £80k+ is relatively well off, even though they may not feel it, especially if they're sole providers for a large family (only possible because they are so well paid - many people don't have that luxury).
That's the thing which always confuses me in these situations you could have a household with one person earning £90,000 who will be hit with higher tax then a household with 2 people earning £60,000 each total £120,000
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:34 - Nov 22 with 2222 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:00 - Nov 22 by Mullet
From memory it's an American study which has done the rounds a few times in the last few years. But I guess you can convert $ to £ fairly easily.
There's a lot to it though, it's not just sums, but the bands that puts you in and the lifestyle choices it allows or you make with it.
At the start of the decade we started seeing the research which suggested Britain is now a seven class society and not the traditional three class one of famous comedy sketch. All the big change factors in terms of industry, politics, identity, media, art etc are less linear perhaps.
I guess as the WW2 generation finally disappear, the ripple effects of that conflict are still being measured in all kinds of ways and we are the ones seeing that, whilst still feeling a deep emotional connection to the world of 1945 or so.
Yeah, you're right. It was dollars now that you mention it. I'll edit accordingly.
The scale is still relevant but would be interesting to see the research in the UK and if there was a cultural difference.
I agree about those non-linear changes. And those are meant to be the traditional tools for how we define ourselves and our position in the world. I think these many and rapidly changing questions of identity have rather confused us in the West over the past couple of decades. Overall, I think we've handled it remarkably well i.e. without someone lobbing a nuclear missile at someone. But that's maybe down to the confusion as much as anything else.
Maybe it's when we start agreeing on things that it gets really dangerous.
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:35 - Nov 22 with 2217 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:30 - Nov 22 by BloomBlue
That's the thing which always confuses me in these situations you could have a household with one person earning £90,000 who will be hit with higher tax then a household with 2 people earning £60,000 each total £120,000
They'd be paying a higher tax rate on £10k of their income. They wouldn't be paying more tax.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:43 - Nov 22 by longtimefan
Actually they would due to the the dual income couple having two personal allowances and paying considerably less each at the 40% rate.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 16:45]
you would have to look at the person earning £90000 and their circumstances. I’m assuming, although it had not been mentioned so far, that this person has a spouse or partner that doesn’t utilise their personal allowance. It is there to be used. Why could they not work and earn some tax-free income? It’s not great tax-planning but you also have to consider circumstances might mean that they are unable to work.
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Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:58 - Nov 22 with 2166 views
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:43 - Nov 22 by longtimefan
Actually they would due to the the dual income couple having two personal allowances and paying considerably less each at the 40% rate.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2019 16:45]
Yes, you're right, it's about a grand more over a year, so just under £85 a month or 0.001% of their gross salary. The other couple would be paying more NI though I think so it would balance itself out. Essentially I'm not going to lose any sleep over the guy earning £90k a year.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 14:20 - Nov 22 by clive_baker
I am, I’m just saying it’s not that easy for everyone. Some people on £80k are worse off than their neighbour on £60k, for a whole host of reasons. I don’t know what the answer is, but a lot of things in life are means tested. Working income tax purely off gross salary feels a little unsophisticated for this day and age.
Means testing is generally too expensive a system to implement for anything - but maybe combine dividend and paye income into one would be a start
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 14:18 - Nov 22 by chicoazul
What you have to remember is there are 32.5m "workers" in the UK. Is it really so outlandish to think something like only 1.6m of them earn above 80k? Hardly anyone in the NHS, public sector, chraitable sector, the Forces for instance earns that or really, anywhere near to it. As someone else here has said even people like me who don't pay PAYE and run a business still have to declare our income and pay tax sadly, and all the UKs averages are extrapolated from that data.
We may not be typical, but as a national charity we pay roughly 1% of 2000 or so contracted staff upwards of 80k. There will likely be the odd consultant / contractor up there as well.
Bearded 80k shouty bloke on question time last night on 16:02 - Nov 22 by Butterbing
Yeah, who needs experts eh? I'm following your lead. I'm going to start doing my own dentistry. Also, when I go shopping and they tell me it's £14.83 I will tell them they are wrong and pay them what I think it should be. I will also ignore traffic lights because I know better and can safely navigate junctions without their help. Life must be great when you live in a post-expert society. Just trust yourself, you know you're right. Thanks for your helpful guidance as I move to a stress-free delusional paradise.
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