| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:35 - Feb 18 with 4704 views | eireblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:03 - Feb 18 by sparks |
You are the second to claim I have something wrong or that it is a poor analogy. but you cant explain why.
For the third or fourth time, I have not commented on prohibition or the argument for legalisation. Whether we like it or agree with it or not, the position is that many drugs are currently illegal. It is in that context, that the demand creates significant harm to vulernable people in the supply chain.
I have no problem discussing the larger issues- they are entirely valid. However, what is happening here- is that the wider issues are being introduced in order to avoid addressing an uncomfortable truth. |
I did explain why.
You framed an argument so you could make this point.
“ What I was hoping to see (but perhaps unsurprisingly havent) is someone with the integrity to say "You know what? I can see the problem here. I probably wont stop doing what I enjoy, but I am at least uncomfortable with it".”
Your analogy and framing was to get to that point.
Equally well, you could argue that middle class people voting for continued prohibition, knowing full well it causes misery throughout the supply chain, should at least be uncomfortable with causing that misery. |  | |  |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:48 - Feb 18 with 4687 views | Darth_Koont |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:35 - Feb 18 by eireblue |
I did explain why.
You framed an argument so you could make this point.
“ What I was hoping to see (but perhaps unsurprisingly havent) is someone with the integrity to say "You know what? I can see the problem here. I probably wont stop doing what I enjoy, but I am at least uncomfortable with it".”
Your analogy and framing was to get to that point.
Equally well, you could argue that middle class people voting for continued prohibition, knowing full well it causes misery throughout the supply chain, should at least be uncomfortable with causing that misery. |
Spot on. Especially the last para.
It's ironic that we're talking about taking responsibility for the sake of society but that responsibility apparently only extends to individuals who are involved however tangentially. If society and us as members of that society took responsibility as a whole rather than looking the other way then much of this could be resolved very quickly.
Instead, we're looking at a similar mess the Catholic Church get into over contraception where their morals won't allow them to address the larger problem of diseases like AIDS and overpopulation that condoms would alleviate massively. We have to be much more practical and focused on society's best rather than on our own moral security that is pretty subjective anyway. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:52 - Feb 18 with 4679 views | The_Last_Baron |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 07:54 - Feb 18 by WeWereZombies |
I know you are just a wind-up account but advocating extrajudicial killings is a new low, even for you. If you want to uphold the rule of law undermining it is not the best way to go about it.
Then following it up with a post connecting a drug user with his pedophilia right after you have highlighted someone whose policies involves the murder of street children is misguided, perhaps you are not a wind-up but just have a blind spot when it comes to reflecting on what you are suggesting. |
He is the president laddie. He was talking about the death penalty in his country for those convicted of bringing drugs into the Phillipines. Learn to read and digest what is written. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:58 - Feb 18 with 4642 views | Herbivore |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:52 - Feb 18 by The_Last_Baron |
He is the president laddie. He was talking about the death penalty in his country for those convicted of bringing drugs into the Phillipines. Learn to read and digest what is written. |
Are you in favour of putting someone to death for brining drugs into a country? |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 11:14 - Feb 18 with 4639 views | giant_stow |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 09:58 - Feb 18 by sparks |
You are still evading and deflecting.
By buying illegal drugs, you are creating a market and supporting a trade which is causing enormous harm to many people, right now.
All I am suggesting is people should be aware of that and at least acknowledge a degree of discomfort about it (as one might do, for instance, in buying a fuel guzzling car). Extraoradinary the intellectual tap dance people will do to avoid that. |
You're still not getting this. When i go buy some cannabis from my dealer, im not helping to create a market for more dodgy sources. My 'demand' is *only* to be fulfilled by my dealer. No country lines, kids or anything else. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 12:06 - Feb 18 with 4599 views | flimflam |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 18:12 - Feb 17 by footers |
So's ketamine*. The world's #1 used drug, in fact. And a favourite of dear old footers back in his raving days!
*Impossible to OD from, and about 1 in 5 billion people are allergic to it. More harmless than a ham sandwich. [Post edited 17 Feb 2020 18:13]
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Snoooowbaaaaalls |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 12:12 - Feb 18 with 4593 views | WeWereZombies |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:52 - Feb 18 by The_Last_Baron |
He is the president laddie. He was talking about the death penalty in his country for those convicted of bringing drugs into the Phillipines. Learn to read and digest what is written. |
Learn to look up who someone is before you post daft approbation about them... |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 12:21 - Feb 18 with 4568 views | BackToRussia |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:58 - Feb 18 by Herbivore |
Are you in favour of putting someone to death for brining drugs into a country? |
I am. Salty weed is bloody disgusting. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 13:30 - Feb 18 with 4541 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 09:58 - Feb 18 by sparks |
You are still evading and deflecting.
By buying illegal drugs, you are creating a market and supporting a trade which is causing enormous harm to many people, right now.
All I am suggesting is people should be aware of that and at least acknowledge a degree of discomfort about it (as one might do, for instance, in buying a fuel guzzling car). Extraoradinary the intellectual tap dance people will do to avoid that. |
The one who is evading is you. Herbivore has made some really valid points that counter your argument and you've swerved every one. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 13:53 - Feb 18 with 4514 views | HARRY10 |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:23 - Feb 18 by chicoazul |
People really really don't like it when you express publicly the doubts they too hold, but privately. Look at all the angels dancing on a pin in this thread in response to a very simple request; don't buy illegal drugs because of what it does to communities/society. Look at the p1ss taking and name calling and condescension. They do that because they agree. |
The same could be said of a whole host of other goods, only there the harm is hidden.
For you to now squeak up suggests you haven't a clue about this and are merely behaving like some Mary Whitehouse because you read something in the papers.
I don't remember you being on your high horse about this a year, or ten years, ago. Or was it all quite harmless back then ?
I suspect though this is merely another attempt by a rightie to attack those ever so naughty metropolitan liberal, sneering elites who buy their drugs from poor working class 'hurchins' thus impoverishing their lives further
Because if you had the slightest clue you understand that those who buy because they are addicts will never have such 'pangs of doubt'. They are hooked and that addiction over rides pretty much anything. So if all those callous middle class types stopped buying drugs this evening there would still be a market for class As. As long as numpties like you are unable to grasp the reality of keeping heroin illegal puts it in the hands of the 'baddies'.
Perhaps then you might care to wonder how much your bigotted ignorance is keeping this trade in the hands of those you rail against. |  | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:02 - Feb 18 with 4497 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 13:53 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
The same could be said of a whole host of other goods, only there the harm is hidden.
For you to now squeak up suggests you haven't a clue about this and are merely behaving like some Mary Whitehouse because you read something in the papers.
I don't remember you being on your high horse about this a year, or ten years, ago. Or was it all quite harmless back then ?
I suspect though this is merely another attempt by a rightie to attack those ever so naughty metropolitan liberal, sneering elites who buy their drugs from poor working class 'hurchins' thus impoverishing their lives further
Because if you had the slightest clue you understand that those who buy because they are addicts will never have such 'pangs of doubt'. They are hooked and that addiction over rides pretty much anything. So if all those callous middle class types stopped buying drugs this evening there would still be a market for class As. As long as numpties like you are unable to grasp the reality of keeping heroin illegal puts it in the hands of the 'baddies'.
Perhaps then you might care to wonder how much your bigotted ignorance is keeping this trade in the hands of those you rail against. |
Fantastic post. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:14 - Feb 18 with 4489 views | Lord_Lucan |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:02 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Fantastic post. |
Was it? I thought it case across a bit narky.
Technically I'm for decriminalising class A's but it has its downsides. At the moment people have to approach a dealer and risk getting arrested, these two things put people off.
Do I want my grandson when he grows up to be able to walk into Boots the Chemist and buy some heroin because he wants to see what the fuss is about? I'm not sure I do.
The answer is that there is no answer and both sides have genuine arguments. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:18 - Feb 18 with 4468 views | lowhouseblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 13:53 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
The same could be said of a whole host of other goods, only there the harm is hidden.
For you to now squeak up suggests you haven't a clue about this and are merely behaving like some Mary Whitehouse because you read something in the papers.
I don't remember you being on your high horse about this a year, or ten years, ago. Or was it all quite harmless back then ?
I suspect though this is merely another attempt by a rightie to attack those ever so naughty metropolitan liberal, sneering elites who buy their drugs from poor working class 'hurchins' thus impoverishing their lives further
Because if you had the slightest clue you understand that those who buy because they are addicts will never have such 'pangs of doubt'. They are hooked and that addiction over rides pretty much anything. So if all those callous middle class types stopped buying drugs this evening there would still be a market for class As. As long as numpties like you are unable to grasp the reality of keeping heroin illegal puts it in the hands of the 'baddies'.
Perhaps then you might care to wonder how much your bigotted ignorance is keeping this trade in the hands of those you rail against. |
so these addicts you refer to - the ones who are hooked and that addiction over rides pretty much anything. you would make it legal for someone to supply class a drugs to someone in that position? surely that would be an irresponsible act with the potential to amount to manslaughter? or would it only be legal to supply drugs to non-addicts? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:20 - Feb 18 with 4461 views | footers |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:18 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
so these addicts you refer to - the ones who are hooked and that addiction over rides pretty much anything. you would make it legal for someone to supply class a drugs to someone in that position? surely that would be an irresponsible act with the potential to amount to manslaughter? or would it only be legal to supply drugs to non-addicts? |
Many of the street drugs available have already been cut god knows how many times , often with very dangerous filler substances, so I'd suggest introducing a clean supply would at least help in that regard. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:20 - Feb 18 with 4454 views | chicoazul |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 13:53 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
The same could be said of a whole host of other goods, only there the harm is hidden.
For you to now squeak up suggests you haven't a clue about this and are merely behaving like some Mary Whitehouse because you read something in the papers.
I don't remember you being on your high horse about this a year, or ten years, ago. Or was it all quite harmless back then ?
I suspect though this is merely another attempt by a rightie to attack those ever so naughty metropolitan liberal, sneering elites who buy their drugs from poor working class 'hurchins' thus impoverishing their lives further
Because if you had the slightest clue you understand that those who buy because they are addicts will never have such 'pangs of doubt'. They are hooked and that addiction over rides pretty much anything. So if all those callous middle class types stopped buying drugs this evening there would still be a market for class As. As long as numpties like you are unable to grasp the reality of keeping heroin illegal puts it in the hands of the 'baddies'.
Perhaps then you might care to wonder how much your bigotted ignorance is keeping this trade in the hands of those you rail against. |
"Look at all the angels dancing on a pin in this thread in response to a very simple request; don't buy illegal drugs because of what it does to communities/society. Look at the p1ss taking and name calling and condescension. They do that because they agree."
Poor old Harold. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:21 - Feb 18 with 4440 views | Herbivore |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:14 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
Was it? I thought it case across a bit narky.
Technically I'm for decriminalising class A's but it has its downsides. At the moment people have to approach a dealer and risk getting arrested, these two things put people off.
Do I want my grandson when he grows up to be able to walk into Boots the Chemist and buy some heroin because he wants to see what the fuss is about? I'm not sure I do.
The answer is that there is no answer and both sides have genuine arguments. |
I think if you take a public health approach and demystify drug use you'd be surprised at how few people would use drugs. In other countries (e.g. Portugal) where they've taken a more progressive approach they've seen significant falls in problem drug use. There's an argument that it being illegal makes it more alluring, especially if you're a teenager looking to be a bit rebellious and to experiment. If it's something you can just go and buy over a counter it won't have the same mystique. Of course it's hard to say for sure without taking the plunge and legalising it, but what little evidence we have suggests it wouldn't significantly increase usage. It's so easy to get hold of drugs anyway that I'm not sure accessibility and illegality puts off many people that would otherwise give it a try. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:24 - Feb 18 with 4433 views | lowhouseblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:20 - Feb 18 by footers |
Many of the street drugs available have already been cut god knows how many times , often with very dangerous filler substances, so I'd suggest introducing a clean supply would at least help in that regard. |
that wasn't my question. would you make it legal for, say, big pharma companies, to supply class a drugs to drug addicts? do you think that would be an acceptable business practice? - would you want the law to protect those companies from criminal or civil action - eg corporate manslaughter or civil claims for damages due to negligence?
if you want the law to change you must have answers to these very basic questions. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:26 - Feb 18 with 4423 views | chicoazul |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 10:48 - Feb 18 by Darth_Koont |
Spot on. Especially the last para.
It's ironic that we're talking about taking responsibility for the sake of society but that responsibility apparently only extends to individuals who are involved however tangentially. If society and us as members of that society took responsibility as a whole rather than looking the other way then much of this could be resolved very quickly.
Instead, we're looking at a similar mess the Catholic Church get into over contraception where their morals won't allow them to address the larger problem of diseases like AIDS and overpopulation that condoms would alleviate massively. We have to be much more practical and focused on society's best rather than on our own moral security that is pretty subjective anyway. |
You seem very secure in your own morality though, so I guess you must mean other people. I wonder who? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:27 - Feb 18 with 4419 views | giant_stow |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:20 - Feb 18 by chicoazul |
"Look at all the angels dancing on a pin in this thread in response to a very simple request; don't buy illegal drugs because of what it does to communities/society. Look at the p1ss taking and name calling and condescension. They do that because they agree."
Poor old Harold. |
Your very simple request rests on that being the only and best way to stop drugs-based harm to communties. Its not! | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:28 - Feb 18 with 4413 views | footers |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:24 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
that wasn't my question. would you make it legal for, say, big pharma companies, to supply class a drugs to drug addicts? do you think that would be an acceptable business practice? - would you want the law to protect those companies from criminal or civil action - eg corporate manslaughter or civil claims for damages due to negligence?
if you want the law to change you must have answers to these very basic questions. |
I haven't said anything about the law!
But as it goes, I probably would prefer that to the current alternative, yes. A drug addict taking medical quality drugs or replacements is far preferable to street drugs cooked up by people who don't know what they're doing.
Big pharma already sells methadone, amphetamines and other opiates in other forms, so why this would be much different I'm not sure. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 14:29]
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:28 - Feb 18 with 4407 views | Herbivore |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:24 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
that wasn't my question. would you make it legal for, say, big pharma companies, to supply class a drugs to drug addicts? do you think that would be an acceptable business practice? - would you want the law to protect those companies from criminal or civil action - eg corporate manslaughter or civil claims for damages due to negligence?
if you want the law to change you must have answers to these very basic questions. |
Why must he? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:34 - Feb 18 with 4391 views | chicoazul |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:27 - Feb 18 by giant_stow |
Your very simple request rests on that being the only and best way to stop drugs-based harm to communties. Its not! |
Did I say that? I don't believe I did. Here is what I think though; I am sure there are lots of other *potential* ways to stop or reduce drugs based harm to communities but for me people not buying them in the first place - the vast majority of whom are not addicted btw and do it for fun - is a *highly highly likely* way to stop or reduce it because a large part of the market won't be there anymore.
Another way to perhaps do it is to enforce drug laws properly and in full unlike for instance, Durham Police do.
People (not you) get soooooo very angry at me for stating this simple thing. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:35 - Feb 18 with 4386 views | lowhouseblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:28 - Feb 18 by footers |
I haven't said anything about the law!
But as it goes, I probably would prefer that to the current alternative, yes. A drug addict taking medical quality drugs or replacements is far preferable to street drugs cooked up by people who don't know what they're doing.
Big pharma already sells methadone, amphetamines and other opiates in other forms, so why this would be much different I'm not sure. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 14:29]
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so purdue pharma should be allowed to market oxycontin even more aggressively - roll up, roll up, no prescription required. you'd let them sell it to anyone who wants it and let them buy as much as they want?
i thought the opoid crisis in the us was a very bad thing and was the result of pharma companies pushing addictive drugs without adequate controls or effective legal restrictions - but you actually want to relax the law further and let them push whatever they want to anyone who'll buy it. including addicts. nice. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:37 - Feb 18 with 4374 views | WeWereZombies |
I do wonder that if you changed drugs being freely available to guns being freely available how many posters in this thread would instantly change sides. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:40 - Feb 18 with 4361 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 14:27 - Feb 18 by giant_stow |
Your very simple request rests on that being the only and best way to stop drugs-based harm to communties. Its not! |
Not what anyone has said. Extraordinary that you are still reaching for ways to avoid just addressing the discomfort. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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