| It's all gone political now hasn't it 23:56 - May 10 with 3145 views | Trequartista |
First few weeks it felt like we were genuinely in this together, like Brexit was in a former lifetime, but it's all come back again now. Right-wing wanting to open everything up, left-wing wanting it all closed. Braying mobs going after anyone who dissents from the official line, despite no-one having any conclusive evidence for anything.
Cuh. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:54 - May 11 with 789 views | homer_123 |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:40 - May 11 by DanTheMan |
As Faisal Islam put it:
What we did get was a "change of emphasis" - that people should assume they should go back to work, rather than presume they should not..
So whilst nothing may have changed from a regulatory standpoint (as far as I'm aware) the messaging is now you should be looking to go back to work.
Maybe this is why people are slightly confused. If literally nothing has changed rather than some slightly relaxed exercise rules, then why change all the messaging and make a big deal out of it? |
'If literally nothing has changed rather than some slightly relaxed exercise rules, then why change all the messaging and make a big deal out of it?'
Because if he hadn't there would be uproar that nothing has been relaxed.
Also if 'anyone' assumed from last night that they 'absolutely must' go to their 'place' of work this morning - they genuinely need their head testing. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:57 - May 11 with 782 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:51 - May 11 by DanTheMan |
I guess we'll see more today really, and whether more people are back in a workplace in the coming fortnight.
I'm probably now more confused following this conversation than I was when I woke up! |
This isn’t aimed at you, but because I’m not looking to give Johnson a kicking at every opportunity I’m prepared to consider why the messaging may have changed.
My gut reaction is that the former message was on the money. However, I’m thinking about why they would change it.
Could it be because more people have been returning to work, KFC and others re opening, I’m seeing people in my stree with scaffolding erected as they get an extension built, the weather getting better each day and more and more people flouting the rules. And the government are faced with this and believe that the old message has become tired, like a football manager giving the same tired team talk to bored players, and a new message needs to be out in place?
Pure speculation on my part but I’m looking for the reasons behind the change. [Post edited 11 May 2020 9:00]
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:58 - May 11 with 775 views | DanTheMan |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:54 - May 11 by homer_123 |
'If literally nothing has changed rather than some slightly relaxed exercise rules, then why change all the messaging and make a big deal out of it?'
Because if he hadn't there would be uproar that nothing has been relaxed.
Also if 'anyone' assumed from last night that they 'absolutely must' go to their 'place' of work this morning - they genuinely need their head testing. |
I genuinely don't think there would have been uproar, I think for the most part people still understand why we are in lockdown.
But I digress, hopefully the bits released today will clarify what they mean. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:00 - May 11 with 770 views | DanTheMan |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:57 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
This isn’t aimed at you, but because I’m not looking to give Johnson a kicking at every opportunity I’m prepared to consider why the messaging may have changed.
My gut reaction is that the former message was on the money. However, I’m thinking about why they would change it.
Could it be because more people have been returning to work, KFC and others re opening, I’m seeing people in my stree with scaffolding erected as they get an extension built, the weather getting better each day and more and more people flouting the rules. And the government are faced with this and believe that the old message has become tired, like a football manager giving the same tired team talk to bored players, and a new message needs to be out in place?
Pure speculation on my part but I’m looking for the reasons behind the change. [Post edited 11 May 2020 9:00]
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Potentially might be a reactive change rather than a proactive change.
Weirdly the speculation I've seen says the opposite though with regards to people more relaxed, that the original message was too good and now they are trying to prep people to relaxing the lockdown.
Have to wait and see I guess. | |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:10 - May 11 with 740 views | Darth_Koont |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:00 - May 11 by DanTheMan |
Potentially might be a reactive change rather than a proactive change.
Weirdly the speculation I've seen says the opposite though with regards to people more relaxed, that the original message was too good and now they are trying to prep people to relaxing the lockdown.
Have to wait and see I guess. |
A message not at all coordinated with the other home nations it seems. Let alone giving industry bodies and employers a heads up to digest the information and get people back to work safely.
But apparently all this is common sense. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:15 - May 11 with 738 views | Radlett_blue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:47 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I agree that they shouldn’t be changing the messaging. Stay at home meant stay at home. My view is we shouldn’t be relaxing any measures for another two weeks.
But other than a daft slogan I dint see any material changes to the “lockdown”. Just an exit strategy with dates when certain sectors may open if we hit targets regarding the r rate, deaths and hospital admissions. |
"Stay at home" never meant stay at home. It meant stay at home unless you had to buy essential goods, you had to go to work (e.g. essential workers) or take one piece of daily exercise. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:18 - May 11 with 732 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:15 - May 11 by Radlett_blue |
"Stay at home" never meant stay at home. It meant stay at home unless you had to buy essential goods, you had to go to work (e.g. essential workers) or take one piece of daily exercise. |
Yes, our lockdown was more relaxed than those seen in Italy and Spain but people were on message for the first few weeks.
We may have had more freedom of movement but in the first few weeks we didn’t use that freedom in a way that we are now.
That is purely anecdotal. | |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:18 - May 11 with 734 views | Swansea_Blue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 08:47 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I agree that they shouldn’t be changing the messaging. Stay at home meant stay at home. My view is we shouldn’t be relaxing any measures for another two weeks.
But other than a daft slogan I dint see any material changes to the “lockdown”. Just an exit strategy with dates when certain sectors may open if we hit targets regarding the r rate, deaths and hospital admissions. |
A couple of notable changes I'd have thought:
- They've just put the screws onto (mostly) manual workers by giving employers the green light to force them into work. That seems to be the biggest change.
- Encouraged mass usage of public spaces for as long as people want. They've retained guidance on social-distancing measures, but is that really going to be as effective now that they're encouraging people out?
The last one is a particular concern, as we'll probably see an increase of people driving out to beauty spots. Bit concerns here in Wales about that as we still have a strict no movement, no travel policy, and don't want to see the return of idiots travel the length of the UK just for a walk in Pembrokeshire (or visit to their second home, etc). |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:26 - May 11 with 705 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:18 - May 11 by Swansea_Blue |
A couple of notable changes I'd have thought:
- They've just put the screws onto (mostly) manual workers by giving employers the green light to force them into work. That seems to be the biggest change.
- Encouraged mass usage of public spaces for as long as people want. They've retained guidance on social-distancing measures, but is that really going to be as effective now that they're encouraging people out?
The last one is a particular concern, as we'll probably see an increase of people driving out to beauty spots. Bit concerns here in Wales about that as we still have a strict no movement, no travel policy, and don't want to see the return of idiots travel the length of the UK just for a walk in Pembrokeshire (or visit to their second home, etc). |
Re your first point, unless you work in schools, hospitality, gyms and other sectors not allowed to open, it was always the case that you should go to work if you couldn’t work from home.
Point two, as I said to Dan it’s probably an admission of defeat if the pictures of packed parks over the past few weeks are anything to go by.
I don’t agree with point two btw. I’d enforce the measures and fine the fcuk out of people who break them. [Post edited 11 May 2020 9:45]
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:47 - May 11 with 678 views | Coastalblue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:26 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Re your first point, unless you work in schools, hospitality, gyms and other sectors not allowed to open, it was always the case that you should go to work if you couldn’t work from home.
Point two, as I said to Dan it’s probably an admission of defeat if the pictures of packed parks over the past few weeks are anything to go by.
I don’t agree with point two btw. I’d enforce the measures and fine the fcuk out of people who break them. [Post edited 11 May 2020 9:45]
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I think it's a desperate attempt to continue to look like they're on top of things
Police across East London have been noisily complaining that they are fighting a losing battle with regards to people in parks and public spaces. Sections of the media have been noisily crying out to know what the exit strategy is.
Here (in East London) the footfall has risen massively over the last couple of weeks, a lot of small businesses and cafes have reopened, with social distancing kind of in place.
It looked like a lot of people were getting to the point of having had enough and just doing their own thing anyway, the new messages seemed to have moved with this attitude rather than be draconian about the existing one.
I genuinely fear this all starts again, bigger, in the winter, if we've managed to squeak through from this point. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:53 - May 11 with 670 views | BlueNomad |
I find the bit about schools partially opening bizarre. Reception and Yr 1 pupils cannot and will not observe social distancing from each other or staff. They will be carriers of the virus if they have been in contact with anyone, share it about and then go home. Staff will be left very vulnerable.
Year 10’s won’t be that easy and they at least will have an understanding of what is required. Horseplay and the urge to suck each other’s faces off will overcome common sense.
The guidance will be interesting. |  | | |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:53 - May 11 with 665 views | tractordownsouth |
It does make me chuckle that the likes of brexit hardman Steve Baker are so keen to have lockdown measures lifted for the sake of the economy, yet were happy to push the economy off a cliff for the sake of their no deal utopia. Shows that for the likes of him it's all about petty ideology. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:03 - May 11 with 645 views | DanTheMan |
So this I guess is the main "difference" when it comes to working? | |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:15 - May 11 with 632 views | giant_stow |
Something's changed behind the scenes. It could be the rabid rightwingers for sure, or it could be worried economists and treasury types getting nervous about how long we can continue with the remedial measures like furloughing etc. Maybe money is forcing their hand, now that it's clear this won't be over quickly? |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:16 - May 11 with 625 views | WeWereZombies |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:10 - May 11 by Darth_Koont |
A message not at all coordinated with the other home nations it seems. Let alone giving industry bodies and employers a heads up to digest the information and get people back to work safely.
But apparently all this is common sense. |
If by coordinated you mean we should all be doing the same thing I would disagree, here in Highland Scotland the first wave of Covid-19 has arrived later and we are only now beginning to see the restrictions properly enforced and, for the most part but given the traditional Highland distaste for central planning with no enthusiasm, taken seriously. Perhaps the worst thing about this is that the nuances between urban life and rural life that are obvious are not being legislated on a rational basis but on a national basis.
But if by coordinated you mean the smooth agreement one would hope for between the governments of the Four Nations then, yes, the cracks are showing. And it is strengthening the desire for separate development as far as I can see due to the weaknesses shown by the Johnson administration. Although we cannot know for sure it does look like the other heads are doing their best for their citizens whilst Johnson is trying to catch them out and still playing 'you zig and I will zag'. |  |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:17 - May 11 with 623 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:15 - May 11 by giant_stow |
Something's changed behind the scenes. It could be the rabid rightwingers for sure, or it could be worried economists and treasury types getting nervous about how long we can continue with the remedial measures like furloughing etc. Maybe money is forcing their hand, now that it's clear this won't be over quickly? |
I probably have a few more rabid right wingers on my social media feed than you Ullaa and they are far from happy with what’s been proposed.
Other than a bit of window dressing nothing has changed. | |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:19 - May 11 with 621 views | Swansea_Blue |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:03 - May 11 by DanTheMan |
So this I guess is the main "difference" when it comes to working? |
As I said to glassers "should be actively encouraged to go to work" is new and is something employers can point to if they previously followed the "stay at home" message. It won't apply to all as some employers will still be putting their employees health first.
Edit - this shift is possibly linked to furlough too. They seem to have been caught out by how large the uptake for furlough is and seem keen to get to a position where they are not obligated to fund people. With this new message they're moving to a position where they can put the blame on any employers who decide to keep employers off work, absolving the government of any responsibility to make furlough payments.
[Post edited 11 May 2020 10:27]
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:42 - May 11 with 596 views | Darth_Koont |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:16 - May 11 by WeWereZombies |
If by coordinated you mean we should all be doing the same thing I would disagree, here in Highland Scotland the first wave of Covid-19 has arrived later and we are only now beginning to see the restrictions properly enforced and, for the most part but given the traditional Highland distaste for central planning with no enthusiasm, taken seriously. Perhaps the worst thing about this is that the nuances between urban life and rural life that are obvious are not being legislated on a rational basis but on a national basis.
But if by coordinated you mean the smooth agreement one would hope for between the governments of the Four Nations then, yes, the cracks are showing. And it is strengthening the desire for separate development as far as I can see due to the weaknesses shown by the Johnson administration. Although we cannot know for sure it does look like the other heads are doing their best for their citizens whilst Johnson is trying to catch them out and still playing 'you zig and I will zag'. |
I'm with you totally. The response can and should be different according to what's going on across different health services, and where possible even regionally too.
So yes, "coordination" was more about the messaging not just being sprung on the UK public as a whole but it seems the devolved governments didn't even know about it. | |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:46 - May 11 with 583 views | giant_stow |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:17 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I probably have a few more rabid right wingers on my social media feed than you Ullaa and they are far from happy with what’s been proposed.
Other than a bit of window dressing nothing has changed. |
Fair enough mr. | |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:51 - May 11 with 568 views | sparks |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 09:53 - May 11 by BlueNomad |
I find the bit about schools partially opening bizarre. Reception and Yr 1 pupils cannot and will not observe social distancing from each other or staff. They will be carriers of the virus if they have been in contact with anyone, share it about and then go home. Staff will be left very vulnerable.
Year 10’s won’t be that easy and they at least will have an understanding of what is required. Horseplay and the urge to suck each other’s faces off will overcome common sense.
The guidance will be interesting. |
Reception and yr 1 is bizarre. As you say they cant and wont distance. Notably, we know from Scandinavia that kids starting school at 7 or 8 do just as well anyway- so they are probably least harmed by being off. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:59 - May 11 with 560 views | JakeITFC |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:51 - May 11 by sparks |
Reception and yr 1 is bizarre. As you say they cant and wont distance. Notably, we know from Scandinavia that kids starting school at 7 or 8 do just as well anyway- so they are probably least harmed by being off. |
How long can you keep kids away from school to protect others though?
They are very unlikely to get sick and almost never going to die from this, so it is better to think of solutions to protect the people who can rather than locking up millions of potential asymptomatic carriers for the foreseeable future? |  | | |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 11:00 - May 11 with 557 views | sparks |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 10:59 - May 11 by JakeITFC |
How long can you keep kids away from school to protect others though?
They are very unlikely to get sick and almost never going to die from this, so it is better to think of solutions to protect the people who can rather than locking up millions of potential asymptomatic carriers for the foreseeable future? |
You miss the point. Why start with year 1 and reception- who are least in need of schooling and most likely to fail at distancing? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 11:02 - May 11 with 555 views | Mullet |
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| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 11:02 - May 11 with 553 views | JakeITFC |
| It's all gone political now hasn't it on 11:00 - May 11 by sparks |
You miss the point. Why start with year 1 and reception- who are least in need of schooling and most likely to fail at distancing? |
Yes, sorry - I did miss the point.
That is probably another decision more likely to be on the side of getting the economy going again (less intensive childcare requirements for people WFH with older kids).
Not saying this is right of course. | | | |
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