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Today's scapegoat? 08:08 - May 20 with 1307 viewsbluelagos

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-uk-blames-scientists-for-wrong-advic

Scientists or teachers? Suppose they can't really be blaming immigrants any more...

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:16 - May 20 with 950 viewspointofblue

Then surely they should publish the advice? As they have nothing to hide and have been following it every step of the way.

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:21 - May 20 with 928 viewsbluelagos

Today's scapegoat? on 08:16 - May 20 by pointofblue

Then surely they should publish the advice? As they have nothing to hide and have been following it every step of the way.


I wonder why the government that spent weeks claiming they were "following the science" haven't published, in full, without redactions, the advice?

Struggling to think of a legitimate reason, when the scientists involved are happy for it to be published.

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:22 - May 20 with 921 viewsartsbossbeard

It's so easy to simply sit back and blame the virus handling on the government especially as it's so easy to simply sit back and blame the virus handling on the government.

Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
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Today's scapegoat? on 08:28 - May 20 with 897 viewspointofblue

Today's scapegoat? on 08:21 - May 20 by bluelagos

I wonder why the government that spent weeks claiming they were "following the science" haven't published, in full, without redactions, the advice?

Struggling to think of a legitimate reason, when the scientists involved are happy for it to be published.


Reading the article their own back benches are starting to turn, one Conservative MP has written to the PM asking for the advice to be published in full.

Poll: Which formation should we play moving forward?

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:29 - May 20 with 897 viewsbluelagos

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1262853357213028355

Just seen the headlines. It's the teaching scum. Scientists are ok for now....

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:29 - May 20 with 884 viewsHerbivore

I think the government are playing a dangerous game here. Our country is a mess and there are many idiots about, but I'm not sure we're quite stuffed enough that the government can go full Trump and get away with it.

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:30 - May 20 with 900 viewsGuthrum

To be fair, Coffey is not entirely wrong. Duff advice leads to wrong decisions. Some of the early scientific modelling was logically arrived at, but proven to be incorrect as more data came in, analysed and its implications understood. Which inevitably shaped the Government's actions. And, as a result, probably cost lives.

But, equally, this was not a situation where there were any clear and easy answers. To have been really effective, we needed to have begun the lockdown before we knew it had spread to Europe at all (and quarantined everybody who had been skiing in Italy or Austria). By the time the Lombardy outbreak had begun in earnest, it was already too late. Simply not enough was undestood about Covid-19 at that stage.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Today's scapegoat? on 08:31 - May 20 with 889 viewspointofblue

Today's scapegoat? on 08:29 - May 20 by bluelagos

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1262853357213028355

Just seen the headlines. It's the teaching scum. Scientists are ok for now....


Not the teachers themselves but the unions, to be pedantic. The Mail and the unions have had such a close relationship after all...

Poll: Which formation should we play moving forward?

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:35 - May 20 with 883 viewsbluelagos

Today's scapegoat? on 08:30 - May 20 by Guthrum

To be fair, Coffey is not entirely wrong. Duff advice leads to wrong decisions. Some of the early scientific modelling was logically arrived at, but proven to be incorrect as more data came in, analysed and its implications understood. Which inevitably shaped the Government's actions. And, as a result, probably cost lives.

But, equally, this was not a situation where there were any clear and easy answers. To have been really effective, we needed to have begun the lockdown before we knew it had spread to Europe at all (and quarantined everybody who had been skiing in Italy or Austria). By the time the Lombardy outbreak had begun in earnest, it was already too late. Simply not enough was undestood about Covid-19 at that stage.


Where that falls down Guthers is when you consider all the UK organisations that shut down before the government locked down.

The London marathon was cancelled, the Scottish FA, even the Queen. We were slow to lockdown and to hide behind the science is a cop out imho. 10 minutes watching skynews pictures of Italian hospitals was enough for most people to grasp the dangers. That and a basic understanding of how viruses spread.

They dithered when all around were taking actions. Including many in the UK.
[Post edited 20 May 8:37]

Poll: So who are the biggest menace / danger?

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:38 - May 20 with 864 viewssparks

Today's scapegoat? on 08:35 - May 20 by bluelagos

Where that falls down Guthers is when you consider all the UK organisations that shut down before the government locked down.

The London marathon was cancelled, the Scottish FA, even the Queen. We were slow to lockdown and to hide behind the science is a cop out imho. 10 minutes watching skynews pictures of Italian hospitals was enough for most people to grasp the dangers. That and a basic understanding of how viruses spread.

They dithered when all around were taking actions. Including many in the UK.
[Post edited 20 May 8:37]


They have the age old problem that you cant trust the public with facts.

If they released papers, they will be quote mined, cherry picked- and decisions reasonably made on reasonable advice will be questioned and held up by people who don't read the whole document or understand the non black and white nature of such things. So they dont release it, in order to protect their arses- even if they have followed advice rigorously.

That is not a good reason, democratically speaking, not to publish though. The pressure should be ramped up.

Whatever happened to that report on Russia prior to the election whilst we are at it?

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Today's scapegoat? on 08:42 - May 20 with 845 viewsgiant_ullaa

Today's scapegoat? on 08:38 - May 20 by sparks

They have the age old problem that you cant trust the public with facts.

If they released papers, they will be quote mined, cherry picked- and decisions reasonably made on reasonable advice will be questioned and held up by people who don't read the whole document or understand the non black and white nature of such things. So they dont release it, in order to protect their arses- even if they have followed advice rigorously.

That is not a good reason, democratically speaking, not to publish though. The pressure should be ramped up.

Whatever happened to that report on Russia prior to the election whilst we are at it?


If the scientists involved suggested loads of policies which were never enacted, surely they'll leak it out sooner or later just to protect themselves, no?

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Today's scapegoat? on 08:47 - May 20 with 829 viewsGuthrum

Today's scapegoat? on 08:35 - May 20 by bluelagos

Where that falls down Guthers is when you consider all the UK organisations that shut down before the government locked down.

The London marathon was cancelled, the Scottish FA, even the Queen. We were slow to lockdown and to hide behind the science is a cop out imho. 10 minutes watching skynews pictures of Italian hospitals was enough for most people to grasp the dangers. That and a basic understanding of how viruses spread.

They dithered when all around were taking actions. Including many in the UK.
[Post edited 20 May 8:37]


But even they were far too late. Nobody was even considering lockdown in the last two weeks of February. Before the situation in Italian hospitals had even developed.

Part of the problem was basic understanding of how viruses spread. Some of the scientists were working on models based on one set of diseases (and the Chinese data), whereas Covid was not, in reality, behaving like that. As the Italian data proved. But that took time to arrive and be analysed.

That's not to say the Government is blameless. Perhaps they were heeding the wrong advice because it was closer to what they wanted to hear than the other voices. There was that feeble "voluntary social distancing" period, which lost us a week.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Today's scapegoat? on 08:47 - May 20 with 830 viewsSwansea_Blue

Today's scapegoat? on 08:30 - May 20 by Guthrum

To be fair, Coffey is not entirely wrong. Duff advice leads to wrong decisions. Some of the early scientific modelling was logically arrived at, but proven to be incorrect as more data came in, analysed and its implications understood. Which inevitably shaped the Government's actions. And, as a result, probably cost lives.

But, equally, this was not a situation where there were any clear and easy answers. To have been really effective, we needed to have begun the lockdown before we knew it had spread to Europe at all (and quarantined everybody who had been skiing in Italy or Austria). By the time the Lombardy outbreak had begun in earnest, it was already too late. Simply not enough was undestood about Covid-19 at that stage.


True, duff advice can lead to bad decisions. Which is why they needed to be transparent and allow scrutiny of their decisions and how they came by them. That's the fundamental bit of "following the science" they forgot. People were telling them this non-stop, but they ignored everyone.

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Today's scapegoat? on 08:50 - May 20 with 816 viewsm14_blue

Today's scapegoat? on 08:42 - May 20 by giant_ullaa

If the scientists involved suggested loads of policies which were never enacted, surely they'll leak it out sooner or later just to protect themselves, no?


They will now.

I have a feeling that Coffey will be extremely unpopular with Cummings et al for this. The last thing they want is for the scientists to start talking openly about how decisions were arrived at, we saw the first hints of that in yesterday’s conference and it didn’t paint the government in a good light at all.
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Today's scapegoat? on 09:29 - May 20 with 746 viewsGeoffSentence

If it's all down to the scientists, what's the point of this government?

In the 38 games in which ALB played in goal for us, we averaged 1.53 points per game which, had they been over the course of a single season, would have seen us challenging for the play offs. This at a time when we were otherwise struggling against relegation. Oh, and didn't Mick Mills have terrific posture.
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Today's scapegoat? on 09:32 - May 20 with 740 viewsGuthrum

Today's scapegoat? on 09:29 - May 20 by GeoffSentence

If it's all down to the scientists, what's the point of this government?


Because somebody has to decide which are the right scientists to follow and, more importantly, to temper the epidemiology with practical economics and an understanding of what the population can take (or are prepared to accept). Like the head of a cross-disciplinary committee.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Today's scapegoat? on 09:46 - May 20 with 715 viewsEdwardStone

Today's scapegoat? on 08:38 - May 20 by sparks

They have the age old problem that you cant trust the public with facts.

If they released papers, they will be quote mined, cherry picked- and decisions reasonably made on reasonable advice will be questioned and held up by people who don't read the whole document or understand the non black and white nature of such things. So they dont release it, in order to protect their arses- even if they have followed advice rigorously.

That is not a good reason, democratically speaking, not to publish though. The pressure should be ramped up.

Whatever happened to that report on Russia prior to the election whilst we are at it?


And I'm still waiting to see the Acruri report

Y'know, the one where the taxpayer gifted large slabs of money/access to the blonde pole-dancing lass that Johnson was spaffing

* edit....minor speling erorr*
[Post edited 20 May 11:28]
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Today's scapegoat? on 09:54 - May 20 with 700 viewsPendejo

Follow the gourd!

uberima fides
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Today's scapegoat? on 10:09 - May 20 with 689 viewsGeoffSentence

Today's scapegoat? on 09:32 - May 20 by Guthrum

Because somebody has to decide which are the right scientists to follow and, more importantly, to temper the epidemiology with practical economics and an understanding of what the population can take (or are prepared to accept). Like the head of a cross-disciplinary committee.


Yes, so if they got it wrong then they failed in all that bit.

In the 38 games in which ALB played in goal for us, we averaged 1.53 points per game which, had they been over the course of a single season, would have seen us challenging for the play offs. This at a time when we were otherwise struggling against relegation. Oh, and didn't Mick Mills have terrific posture.
Poll: Who has been our greatest Dane?

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Today's scapegoat? on 10:11 - May 20 with 688 viewsm14_blue

Today's scapegoat? on 09:29 - May 20 by GeoffSentence

If it's all down to the scientists, what's the point of this government?


This is how I reckon the meetings have been going (pure conjecture obviously but time will tell), using testing as an example but similar could apply to PPE, care homes, schools etc

Government: What sort of testing regime should we put in place?
Scientists: As many as possible. An effective track and trace regime is crucial.
Government: We don’t have any track and trace capability and only have capacity for 10,000 tests a day.
Scientists: Oh. In that case you’ll have to make sure patients in hospitals are getting them I guess.
Government to the world: We are following the science by only testing hospital patients despite that appearing out of step with the better performing countries. We have world leading experts and are following their advice.


And so it’s sort of true that they’re ‘following the science’ but it’s very much shaped by the politics. The scientists go along with it because it’s sort of true and they know how vital it is not to undermine public trust in the government during a public health crisis.

However, if politicians are now going to start openly criticising that advice, and therefore blaming the scientists for our enormous death toll, I suspect the delicately balanced apple cart won’t last long.

I also don’t think for one second that Therese Coffey was anywhere near any decision making or that she has a clue about what advice was given.
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Today's scapegoat? on 10:15 - May 20 with 681 viewsfactual_blue

Today's scapegoat? on 09:54 - May 20 by Pendejo

Follow the gourd!


No! Let us gather shoes together!

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
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Today's scapegoat? on 11:08 - May 20 with 665 viewsPendejo

Today's scapegoat? on 08:35 - May 20 by bluelagos

Where that falls down Guthers is when you consider all the UK organisations that shut down before the government locked down.

The London marathon was cancelled, the Scottish FA, even the Queen. We were slow to lockdown and to hide behind the science is a cop out imho. 10 minutes watching skynews pictures of Italian hospitals was enough for most people to grasp the dangers. That and a basic understanding of how viruses spread.

They dithered when all around were taking actions. Including many in the UK.
[Post edited 20 May 8:37]


Did we either or were we late due to the Chinese covering it up until horse well and truly bolted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52589449

uberima fides
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Today's scapegoat? on 11:40 - May 20 with 648 viewsreusersfreekicks

Today's scapegoat? on 08:30 - May 20 by Guthrum

To be fair, Coffey is not entirely wrong. Duff advice leads to wrong decisions. Some of the early scientific modelling was logically arrived at, but proven to be incorrect as more data came in, analysed and its implications understood. Which inevitably shaped the Government's actions. And, as a result, probably cost lives.

But, equally, this was not a situation where there were any clear and easy answers. To have been really effective, we needed to have begun the lockdown before we knew it had spread to Europe at all (and quarantined everybody who had been skiing in Italy or Austria). By the time the Lombardy outbreak had begun in earnest, it was already too late. Simply not enough was undestood about Covid-19 at that stage.


Enough was known to lockdown a week or even two, earlier. Other countries did and fewer people have died
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Today's scapegoat? on 12:48 - May 20 with 613 viewsGuthrum

Today's scapegoat? on 11:40 - May 20 by reusersfreekicks

Enough was known to lockdown a week or even two, earlier. Other countries did and fewer people have died


A week or two earlier would have helped a bit (certainly the former should have happened, rather than the feeble "voluntary social distancing" which was announced). But the virus was already well established in the UK before that.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Today's scapegoat? on 07:55 - May 22 with 478 viewsHerbivore

Today's scapegoat? on 12:48 - May 20 by Guthrum

A week or two earlier would have helped a bit (certainly the former should have happened, rather than the feeble "voluntary social distancing" which was announced). But the virus was already well established in the UK before that.


This guy thinks it would have made a fair difference had we locked down a week or two earlier: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52764645

I think when a scientist that is part of SAGE is telling people that the "following the science" line is misleading then people need to take heed of that.

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