| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement 18:27 - Jun 21 with 7084 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
If you couple this with the fact the last time this country voted in a Government remotely left of centre was well over 40 years ago, I take it we live in an openly racist country.
How can caring about black people being murdered by the police and institutional racism generally be a "hard left" issue? How can we repeatedly elect Governments that support this ideology?
Stephen Lawrence, Dalian Atkinson, George Floyd, I will not keep quiet. Tonight I am ashamed to be British. I want to be proud of my country but it has been taken over by racist xenophobes. |  |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a on 09:04 - Jun 22 with 1172 views | bluelagos |
| According to comments I read BLM is a on 08:50 - Jun 22 by Darth_Koont |
Sure. So we need parties that are committed to reducing socio-economic inequality as a starting point.
Not some "equality of opportunity" neoliberalism that just deepens those divisions. |
Not some "equality of opportunity" neoliberalism that just deepens those divisions.
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Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
(As someone who has argued for equality of opportunity and who doesn't see much evidence of it in education and/or the work place) |  |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a on 09:13 - Jun 22 with 1155 views | Darth_Koont |
| According to comments I read BLM is a on 08:55 - Jun 22 by lowhouseblue |
we need a government elected which is committed to reducing socio-economic inequality. that will involve heavy investment in early years education and sustained expansion of the economy's need for skilled workers and the ability to pay high wages. it will involve a sustained investment in social infrastructure amongst other things. first it will involve winning an election. |
Well, we've got the balance all wrong if that's the case. We have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the Western world yet can't pay many full-time workers a living wage or give them any job security. Coupled with our low productivity, that seems to suggest that our business and working culture just isn't very good in the UK.
Protecting workers and their rights is a major step that's needed. For workers, their kids and their communities and also to create more sustainable businesses by the sound of it. |  |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a on 09:38 - Jun 22 with 1118 views | Darth_Koont |
| According to comments I read BLM is a on 09:04 - Jun 22 by bluelagos |
Not some "equality of opportunity" neoliberalism that just deepens those divisions.
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Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
(As someone who has argued for equality of opportunity and who doesn't see much evidence of it in education and/or the work place) |
Equality of opportunity is a bit of a misnomer. It sounds fair and just but that assumes there are no underlying structural inequalities.
In reality, those who are white, male, non-disabled, born into upper and upper-middle class etc. are much more able to take advantage of opportunities that are supposedly available for all. These opportunities aren't shared equitably at all in just the same way that money, the rawest form of equal opportunity, can be hoovered up most easily by those who already have it and can actually increase inequality over time.
Just as with wealth, there is a certain amount of redistribution of opportunities needed. UBI seems a very good step to give people the necessary leg up so that more opportunities become accessible as a result. Free further education also.
It doesn't have to be forced or cost money either. I think a good example of that is the Rooney Rule that they would look to bring into football to get a better spread of BAME managers. It just needs people to want to tip the scales a little rather than assuming the work is done because the opportunities are, on paper, available to everyone. | |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 09:39 - Jun 22 with 1128 views | monytowbray |
These threads are a favourite recently. Some folks outing themselves as institutionally racist with little nudging. |  |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 09:55 - Jun 22 with 1086 views | lowhouseblue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 09:39 - Jun 22 by monytowbray |
These threads are a favourite recently. Some folks outing themselves as institutionally racist with little nudging. |
such as? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:07 - Jun 22 with 1058 views | Half_Idiot |
The political spectrum in this country is continually shifting so far to the right that it's becoming terrifying!
I have just seen comments on a bbc article about teaching black history at schools that essentially teaching kids not to be fascists is a far left political agenda pushed by teachers. It's absolute madness!!! |  | | |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:44 - Jun 22 with 1028 views | hampstead_blue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 19:29 - Jun 21 by Nthsuffolkblue |
1 The actions of the political majority. If it was a single voice in the desert I would ignore it. No. On that news site the vast majority agree with the comment. I can only conclude it is widespread that BLM is seen as a hard left movement to oppose reasonable people.
2 The officer who killed Dalian Atkinson has been charged. He has not yet faced trial. I would say his death was as a result of institutional racism at the very least.
3 1984 did not eradicate anything only made it subversive. But that is a side argument. "We are in a good place compared to the majority of the former Eastern block and that's just close to home". There we go again. Let's justify it by it could be worse.
Perhaps you should take a step back and look at your own comments and wonder why many see you as racist.
You may think my last comment was incorrect. It would nice to see some evidence rather than feelings of people who are clearly right of centre in their political outlook as all evidence points that we have done. |
Sorry but how can you call me a racist.
I'd suggest that is removed and an apology forthcoming. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:51 - Jun 22 with 1016 views | hampstead_blue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 19:35 - Jun 21 by lowhouseblue |
in terms of point 2 an individual officer being accused of a criminal offence doesn't prove institutional racism. nationally the death in custody by race data closely matches the arrests by race data |
I agree.
I've mates from years back who have just finished 30 year careers in Essex Police.
I'd suggest those who call out 'Police are racist' go along and see serving and retired Police officers and ask them if they are?
They tell me that those types of statements are utter rubbish.
Bad apples. Yes, of course. My Sect Commander in basic training, a Cpl, was a racist. He was soon drummed out of the Army via the Glasshouse for such behaviour. I never saw racism outside of him.
The politicians and business leaders are somewhat tied-up by this argument.
If they stand-up and say that it's potentially overblown then they themselves will be lynched. They cannot win. They have to accept everything an angry mob has to say, 100%.
We need to be sensible about this argument and not get carried away by baying mobs. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:14 - Jun 22 with 994 views | eireblue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:51 - Jun 22 by hampstead_blue |
I agree.
I've mates from years back who have just finished 30 year careers in Essex Police.
I'd suggest those who call out 'Police are racist' go along and see serving and retired Police officers and ask them if they are?
They tell me that those types of statements are utter rubbish.
Bad apples. Yes, of course. My Sect Commander in basic training, a Cpl, was a racist. He was soon drummed out of the Army via the Glasshouse for such behaviour. I never saw racism outside of him.
The politicians and business leaders are somewhat tied-up by this argument.
If they stand-up and say that it's potentially overblown then they themselves will be lynched. They cannot win. They have to accept everything an angry mob has to say, 100%.
We need to be sensible about this argument and not get carried away by baying mobs. |
What angry mob, what baying mob?
There is currently an overwhelming peaceful BLM movement.
Why are you using the terms "baying mob", "angry mob"?
What are the comparative statistics for the BAME community in the justice system in the UK?
Do you think those numbers are probably more relevant to the issue, rather than the opinions of a couple of friends of yours? |  | | |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:15 - Jun 22 with 992 views | eireblue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:44 - Jun 22 by hampstead_blue |
Sorry but how can you call me a racist.
I'd suggest that is removed and an apology forthcoming. |
He didn't call you a racist. | | | |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:20 - Jun 22 with 982 views | N2_Blue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:51 - Jun 22 by hampstead_blue |
I agree.
I've mates from years back who have just finished 30 year careers in Essex Police.
I'd suggest those who call out 'Police are racist' go along and see serving and retired Police officers and ask them if they are?
They tell me that those types of statements are utter rubbish.
Bad apples. Yes, of course. My Sect Commander in basic training, a Cpl, was a racist. He was soon drummed out of the Army via the Glasshouse for such behaviour. I never saw racism outside of him.
The politicians and business leaders are somewhat tied-up by this argument.
If they stand-up and say that it's potentially overblown then they themselves will be lynched. They cannot win. They have to accept everything an angry mob has to say, 100%.
We need to be sensible about this argument and not get carried away by baying mobs. |
This is where you re wrong. Racism is everywhere, in every industry and facet of life in the UK. Most countries are institutionally racist. It is not about a few bad apples...it is way more systemic than that.
Maybe not by people being outspoken about someone's colour or being abusive, but through discrimination, lack of opportunities, sub-conscious bias. It's all there. if you deny this and say oh it's not a problem because other places have it worse is just poor form and shows you have little understanding or are just blinkered. |  |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:37 - Jun 22 with 955 views | Herbivore |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 11:51 - Jun 22 by hampstead_blue |
I agree.
I've mates from years back who have just finished 30 year careers in Essex Police.
I'd suggest those who call out 'Police are racist' go along and see serving and retired Police officers and ask them if they are?
They tell me that those types of statements are utter rubbish.
Bad apples. Yes, of course. My Sect Commander in basic training, a Cpl, was a racist. He was soon drummed out of the Army via the Glasshouse for such behaviour. I never saw racism outside of him.
The politicians and business leaders are somewhat tied-up by this argument.
If they stand-up and say that it's potentially overblown then they themselves will be lynched. They cannot win. They have to accept everything an angry mob has to say, 100%.
We need to be sensible about this argument and not get carried away by baying mobs. |
White guy says racism isn't really a problem. Okay, boomer. |  |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:38 - Jun 22 with 951 views | Herbivore |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:14 - Jun 22 by eireblue |
What angry mob, what baying mob?
There is currently an overwhelming peaceful BLM movement.
Why are you using the terms "baying mob", "angry mob"?
What are the comparative statistics for the BAME community in the justice system in the UK?
Do you think those numbers are probably more relevant to the issue, rather than the opinions of a couple of friends of yours? |
His use of language highlights some covert racism. Black people protesting = angry/baying mob. | |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 13:21 - Jun 22 with 908 views | Half_Idiot |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 19:35 - Jun 21 by lowhouseblue |
in terms of point 2 an individual officer being accused of a criminal offence doesn't prove institutional racism. nationally the death in custody by race data closely matches the arrests by race data |
You should then take that further to arrests by socioeconomic status and then socioeconomic status by race. | | | |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 13:57 - Jun 22 with 871 views | lowhouseblue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 13:21 - Jun 22 by Half_Idiot |
You should then take that further to arrests by socioeconomic status and then socioeconomic status by race. |
indeed, it's complicated isn't it. also arrests by age and arrests by location. if you are under 25 and live in london you're more likely to be arrested than if you're older and live un the rest of the uk. also in london knife crime, gun crime and gang crime are quite localised to smaller areas and account for a high proportion of arrests. there is a complex pattern of crime and socio-economic disadvantage and that goes a long way in explaining differential arrest rates by race. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 14:46 - Jun 22 with 834 views | hampstead_blue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:15 - Jun 22 by eireblue |
He didn't call you a racist. |
the serious amount of implication is darn near enough.
Sorry, but he doesn't know me from a biro so ought to be more respectful when it comes to throwing such vile words at someone who's not a racist bone in their body.
Would that person spurt out such a strong phrase in a public setting, at someone they do not really know? I'd hope not and they ought to feel bad.
If he met me he would feel embarrassed and ashamed. TBH there is a group on here who ought to feel ashamed of themselves at the twisting and wholly incorrect statements they make of some of us who dare speak their minds. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 14:51 - Jun 22 with 824 views | Herbivore |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 14:46 - Jun 22 by hampstead_blue |
the serious amount of implication is darn near enough.
Sorry, but he doesn't know me from a biro so ought to be more respectful when it comes to throwing such vile words at someone who's not a racist bone in their body.
Would that person spurt out such a strong phrase in a public setting, at someone they do not really know? I'd hope not and they ought to feel bad.
If he met me he would feel embarrassed and ashamed. TBH there is a group on here who ought to feel ashamed of themselves at the twisting and wholly incorrect statements they make of some of us who dare speak their minds. |
We can only judge you by your posts on here. Referring to Black protesters as a "baying mob" and an "angry mob" whilst downplaying institutional racism doesn't do you too many favours. | |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 14:54 - Jun 22 with 820 views | hampstead_blue |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 12:20 - Jun 22 by N2_Blue |
This is where you re wrong. Racism is everywhere, in every industry and facet of life in the UK. Most countries are institutionally racist. It is not about a few bad apples...it is way more systemic than that.
Maybe not by people being outspoken about someone's colour or being abusive, but through discrimination, lack of opportunities, sub-conscious bias. It's all there. if you deny this and say oh it's not a problem because other places have it worse is just poor form and shows you have little understanding or are just blinkered. |
Completely agree in the subconscious bias and that many institutions are subtly racist at best.
Bias is levelled at so many levels of the community. It's not all about colour and ethnicity.
Oh, I mentioned baying and angry mob earlier. Well, if you look at the news images I think you'll find plenty of evidence of that, from both sides. the statue in Bristol and all the other criminal damage is plenty evidence. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 14:56 - Jun 22 with 811 views | Herbivore |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 14:54 - Jun 22 by hampstead_blue |
Completely agree in the subconscious bias and that many institutions are subtly racist at best.
Bias is levelled at so many levels of the community. It's not all about colour and ethnicity.
Oh, I mentioned baying and angry mob earlier. Well, if you look at the news images I think you'll find plenty of evidence of that, from both sides. the statue in Bristol and all the other criminal damage is plenty evidence. |
The crowd of people pulling down the statue didn't look angry. In fact there was something quite joyous about it.
I see you're now taking the classic Trump "both sides" line. Oh dear. | |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:11 - Jun 22 with 788 views | Bellevueblue |
I might have missed a lot of drama over the weekend so might not know the context but I think the problem is there is more to BLM than simply 'Black Lives Matter'
From their own crowd funder "We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world"
I fully understand why people would perceive dismantling captialism as a hard left goal, and any one who dares question BLM and their motives gets outed as a racist.
The 'You're either with us or against us' mentality is really polarising and dangerous,. I can see that and I swing to the left so no wonder people deep into the right are being ridiculous. | | | |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:22 - Jun 22 with 769 views | Darth_Koont |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:11 - Jun 22 by Bellevueblue |
I might have missed a lot of drama over the weekend so might not know the context but I think the problem is there is more to BLM than simply 'Black Lives Matter'
From their own crowd funder "We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world"
I fully understand why people would perceive dismantling captialism as a hard left goal, and any one who dares question BLM and their motives gets outed as a racist.
The 'You're either with us or against us' mentality is really polarising and dangerous,. I can see that and I swing to the left so no wonder people deep into the right are being ridiculous. |
The problem with structural/systemic racism is the structure/system. So there's a degree of dismantling and rebuilding (at the very least significant reform) needed to remove it.
I think a lot of less committed "anti-racists" think we should all just be nice to each other, which frankly ignores reality and excuses doing very little to change anything.
The key question people need to ask is how much black lives (and female, Muslim, gay, trans, disabled etc lives) matter to them. If it's not enough to recognize inequality and change things then those lives don't seem to matter enough. | |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:35 - Jun 22 with 750 views | Herbivore |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:11 - Jun 22 by Bellevueblue |
I might have missed a lot of drama over the weekend so might not know the context but I think the problem is there is more to BLM than simply 'Black Lives Matter'
From their own crowd funder "We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world"
I fully understand why people would perceive dismantling captialism as a hard left goal, and any one who dares question BLM and their motives gets outed as a racist.
The 'You're either with us or against us' mentality is really polarising and dangerous,. I can see that and I swing to the left so no wonder people deep into the right are being ridiculous. |
Changing the system is surely part of the remit when tackling systemic racism, no? Capitalism and exploitation go hand in hand. | |
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| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:39 - Jun 22 with 741 views | Half_Idiot |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:11 - Jun 22 by Bellevueblue |
I might have missed a lot of drama over the weekend so might not know the context but I think the problem is there is more to BLM than simply 'Black Lives Matter'
From their own crowd funder "We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world"
I fully understand why people would perceive dismantling captialism as a hard left goal, and any one who dares question BLM and their motives gets outed as a racist.
The 'You're either with us or against us' mentality is really polarising and dangerous,. I can see that and I swing to the left so no wonder people deep into the right are being ridiculous. |
If a building is subsiding you can't just continually fix the cracks when they appear, sometimes you have to tear it down and start again. | | | |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:42 - Jun 22 with 730 views | Mullet |
| According to comments I read BLM is a "hard left" movement on 15:11 - Jun 22 by Bellevueblue |
I might have missed a lot of drama over the weekend so might not know the context but I think the problem is there is more to BLM than simply 'Black Lives Matter'
From their own crowd funder "We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world"
I fully understand why people would perceive dismantling captialism as a hard left goal, and any one who dares question BLM and their motives gets outed as a racist.
The 'You're either with us or against us' mentality is really polarising and dangerous,. I can see that and I swing to the left so no wonder people deep into the right are being ridiculous. |
I dunno. I was very vocal in questioning the toppling of Colston's statue. No one called me a racist.
In fact it turned into a mammoth thread with loads of interesting discussion from memory.
The biggest problem is people make racist statements and when that's pointed out to them they dig their heels in. Rather than saying sorry or even just acknowledging they hadn't considered XYZ then they insist they are being victimised all too often.
Sometimes it's because they're just a scumbag who did it intentionally, often it's not.
Then others pick a side to suit so they can sharpen their axes and go after people. There are a very small handful of oddballs on here who love to cross lines and can't handle the repercussions of that. Unfortunately others get swept up in them too often.
Most forums they'd be banned instantly which is what makes TWTD so good/flawed depending on your viewpoint. |  |
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