| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West 21:34 - Jul 30 with 30725 views | ElderGrizzly |
And one that will be ignored by those it is imposed on |  | | |  |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:39 - Jul 31 with 2806 views | Ryorry |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:05 - Jul 31 by Libero |
I find it gobsmacking that in a global pandemic so much focus is given on holidays. Absolutely absurd, stranger than fiction tbh. |
I don't have time to read the whole thread right now, so apols if this has already been said - but I too find it gobsmacking - it seems an amazing gamble that some are prepared to take.
I mean - 2 weeks of bliss now (unless your hol is cut short by new Govt. directive/s or your airline or holiday company goes bust) but risk losing your life, or that of someone near to you in a month's time; vs living your life for a few years more yet but without the zazzy excitement of a holiday abroad for the next 12 months.
Interesting potential studies there for research! Like you,I'm pretty risk averse. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 12:40]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:41 - Jul 31 with 2796 views | ElderGrizzly |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 11:49 - Jul 31 by Libero |
Obviously different interest groups have and will use this as a way of pushing their agendas, I've personally tried to stay well clear of any of the discussions surrounding race and the pandemic as although it appears to me that it's more of a socio-economic issue as to why BAME people appear to disproportionately contract the virus, I actually don't know and it'd be stupid to push through with my theory beyond in passing conversation as frankly there is so much that we just don't understand yet!
Anyway, I digress, yeah, no excuse for racism, obviously. Pandemic or not. |
Scots have now advised against travel to those affected parts of Northern England.
That's how bad it has got that Scotland see the North as inhospitable... | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:43 - Jul 31 with 2784 views | Ryorry |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:41 - Jul 31 by ElderGrizzly |
Scots have now advised against travel to those affected parts of Northern England.
That's how bad it has got that Scotland see the North as inhospitable... |
Errm ...
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:45 - Jul 31 with 2770 views | ElderGrizzly |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:43 - Jul 31 by Ryorry |
Errm ...
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Is that part of Nicola's CoronaWall? | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:51 - Jul 31 with 2750 views | Ryorry |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:45 - Jul 31 by ElderGrizzly |
Is that part of Nicola's CoronaWall? |
Surely the Romans never did anything for her?! | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:25 - Jul 31 with 2713 views | giant_stow |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:41 - Jul 31 by ElderGrizzly |
Scots have now advised against travel to those affected parts of Northern England.
That's how bad it has got that Scotland see the North as inhospitable... |
Shes just been waiting to pull the trigger on a move like this - bet she's loving it. |  |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:30 - Jul 31 with 2706 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 08:42 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Sorry - I've edited that post so I will reply to you separately.
The latest graphs are here:
If you look at the US if follows the general C19 trend of exponentional growth at the start followed by a long tail as the lockdown measures take effect. However where the other countries taper to very few cases and persist at that level the US has risen again on a steep gradient and back up to over 1000 deaths a day.
This is directly caused by opening up again far too early, something the poster was saying should be done as long as the weak, old and vulnerable are put under "house arrest" as Paz would put it.
He's right that there are unknown mental and economic issues that can result from lockdowns but there are known deaths that will result from not locking down. Not everyone who dies is old or vulnerable and if you totally open up a country with 400m people then there will be a lot die who aren't in that category.
SB |
That’s not deaths per population though that’s just deaths. Although that spike back up is a concern America is so big some places may also be having their first wave later. I agree that opening late April and May was not good practice but I don’t think we can fully reset now as some are calling for. Need to adapt to live with it, social distancing masks, no large groups, move things outside but can not completely close up again, need to try and keep things moving forwards. |  | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:32 - Jul 31 with 2694 views | Herbivore |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:30 - Jul 31 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That’s not deaths per population though that’s just deaths. Although that spike back up is a concern America is so big some places may also be having their first wave later. I agree that opening late April and May was not good practice but I don’t think we can fully reset now as some are calling for. Need to adapt to live with it, social distancing masks, no large groups, move things outside but can not completely close up again, need to try and keep things moving forwards. |
Cheers, Donald. |  |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:37 - Jul 31 with 2674 views | Enigma_Blue |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 12:33 - Jul 31 by 26_Paz |
Nah, probably just get a flight |
Unless they are able to roll out a vaccine any time soon I think you should give up on the idea of taking a holiday this year. I am sorry you missed out on the holiday you had booked and I am sure you and many others would love to get a way somewhere, but I think this year should be classed as a write off as far as holidays are concerned. Is it really worth putting yourself and others at risk for week in the sun? |  | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:37 - Jul 31 with 2673 views | Darth_Koont |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:25 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
Shes just been waiting to pull the trigger on a move like this - bet she's loving it. |
Bit silly from you as per.
Based on the public health advice, it's not Sturgeon with the agenda here. |  |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:47 - Jul 31 with 2644 views | giant_stow |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:37 - Jul 31 by Darth_Koont |
Bit silly from you as per.
Based on the public health advice, it's not Sturgeon with the agenda here. |
'as per'? I thought we'd reached a ceasefire my man?!
Never mind: anything that 'others' England is great for the SNP (obviously) | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:49 - Jul 31 with 2637 views | footers |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:47 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
'as per'? I thought we'd reached a ceasefire my man?!
Never mind: anything that 'others' England is great for the SNP (obviously) |
They have a separate government and NHS to England. What do you expect them to do? |  |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:50 - Jul 31 with 2633 views | StokieBlue |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:30 - Jul 31 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That’s not deaths per population though that’s just deaths. Although that spike back up is a concern America is so big some places may also be having their first wave later. I agree that opening late April and May was not good practice but I don’t think we can fully reset now as some are calling for. Need to adapt to live with it, social distancing masks, no large groups, move things outside but can not completely close up again, need to try and keep things moving forwards. |
"That’s not deaths per population though that’s just deaths."
I didn't say it was although it's the trend that is important not the actual number. Even if you adjust for population it's still horrific - 1000 deaths in the US should equate to 200 deaths in the UK which it clearly doesn't as the graph shows. It's a horrible trend the US is on at the moment.
Although that spike back up is a concern America is so big some places may also be having their first wave later.
You got any evidence for that assertion? Why aren't India or China showing surges like that given they are big countries? An even better comparison is the EU which isn't showing that massive spike either although there is an increase in cases.
I think it's fairly clear that the timing of the spike coincides with the huge relaxing of lockdown measures across the country. Correlation doesn't always imply causation but in this case it looks a very good correlation.
"I agree that opening late April and May was not good practice but I don’t think we can fully reset now as some are calling for. Need to adapt to live with it, social distancing masks, no large groups, move things outside but can not completely close up again, need to try and keep things moving forwards."
People can't be trusted to do those things though - look at the ridiculous "mask debate" going on in the US at the moment. If kids can't behave you take away their options, it's unfortunately a similar scenario. If the release from lockdown had been staged it might have been fine but you are saying it should be rolled back in stages when it should have been implemented in stages.
SB |  | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:52 - Jul 31 with 2623 views | Darth_Koont |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:47 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
'as per'? I thought we'd reached a ceasefire my man?!
Never mind: anything that 'others' England is great for the SNP (obviously) |
Oh please.
You don't even know what you're talking about. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:58 - Jul 31 with 2597 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 08:31 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Do you have the data which shows lockdown isn't effective against spikes?
Because it's been exceedingly effective in curtailing the virus. Studies simulating no lockdowns have resulted in tens of millions of deaths as their conclusions.
We are up to nearly 700,000 deaths now with pretty severe restrictions on human interaction, imagine what it would have been like with none.
Sometimes an example is easier to relate to than numbers so globally that would be the equivalent to everyone in the non-metropolitan area of Boston dying. For the US alone it's greater than the entire population of Ipswich dying.
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:03]
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I am not suggesting this action in March and April did not save lives. What I am saying is once the hotspots pop back up, which will happen, going back into a community lockdown appears reactionary. So to lockdown again is fighting a losing battle. That isn't learning to live with it, it's trying to beat it, which is not going to be possible until a vaccine.
A good case study of this is happening Australia, who enacted a very strict lockdown after spike in Victoria
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-07-28/coronavirus-vic-lockdowns-why-aren
In terms of total death numbers it is clearly a very scary virus that is killing lots of (mainly vulnerable) people. People that don't really take a deep dive into this figures annually though would like be quite surprised on the number of people that die every year from various illnesses, the totals are always rather alarming. | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:09 - Jul 31 with 2565 views | StokieBlue |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:58 - Jul 31 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I am not suggesting this action in March and April did not save lives. What I am saying is once the hotspots pop back up, which will happen, going back into a community lockdown appears reactionary. So to lockdown again is fighting a losing battle. That isn't learning to live with it, it's trying to beat it, which is not going to be possible until a vaccine.
A good case study of this is happening Australia, who enacted a very strict lockdown after spike in Victoria
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-07-28/coronavirus-vic-lockdowns-why-aren
In terms of total death numbers it is clearly a very scary virus that is killing lots of (mainly vulnerable) people. People that don't really take a deep dive into this figures annually though would like be quite surprised on the number of people that die every year from various illnesses, the totals are always rather alarming. |
"I am not suggesting this action in March and April did not save lives. What I am saying is once the hotspots pop back up, which will happen, going back into a community lockdown appears reactionary. So to lockdown again is fighting a losing battle. That isn't learning to live with it, it's trying to beat it, which is not going to be possible until a vaccine."
Can you learn to live with something that kills so many people? Perhaps we do need to but what if there is a mutation and you suddenly find yourself in the worst affected cohort? I suspect your attitude would change rather quickly.
That article on Victoria says within it that stronger lockdowns were needed in Victoria to stop the cases.
"In terms of total death numbers it is clearly a very scary virus that is killing lots of (mainly vulnerable) people. People that don't really take a deep dive into this figures annually though would like be quite surprised on the number of people that die every year from various illnesses, the totals are always rather alarming."
I am sick of this angle being pushed.
In a bad flu year in the US perhaps 60,000 people will die (over the entire year). That is awful but that is also with everyone going about their daily business and socialising without social distancing. C19 has killed 150,000 in the US in 4 months with lockdowns, social distancing, schools closed and offices closed. There is no comparison with other seasonal diseases. If there had not been huge measures taken that death toll could easily be 10 times what it is currently.
Perhaps people do look at the figures and draw conclusions without bringing in their own bias?
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 14:10]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:14 - Jul 31 with 2545 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:50 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
"That’s not deaths per population though that’s just deaths."
I didn't say it was although it's the trend that is important not the actual number. Even if you adjust for population it's still horrific - 1000 deaths in the US should equate to 200 deaths in the UK which it clearly doesn't as the graph shows. It's a horrible trend the US is on at the moment.
Although that spike back up is a concern America is so big some places may also be having their first wave later.
You got any evidence for that assertion? Why aren't India or China showing surges like that given they are big countries? An even better comparison is the EU which isn't showing that massive spike either although there is an increase in cases.
I think it's fairly clear that the timing of the spike coincides with the huge relaxing of lockdown measures across the country. Correlation doesn't always imply causation but in this case it looks a very good correlation.
"I agree that opening late April and May was not good practice but I don’t think we can fully reset now as some are calling for. Need to adapt to live with it, social distancing masks, no large groups, move things outside but can not completely close up again, need to try and keep things moving forwards."
People can't be trusted to do those things though - look at the ridiculous "mask debate" going on in the US at the moment. If kids can't behave you take away their options, it's unfortunately a similar scenario. If the release from lockdown had been staged it might have been fine but you are saying it should be rolled back in stages when it should have been implemented in stages.
SB |
You are lumping American together as one country and for all intensive purposes it really isn't when it comes to this virus, especially with the lack of federal response. Many states in American have stricter rules than you have at the moment. California
being a very good example and CA is in a right mess at the moment. In my state pubs and restaurants have not been open inside since March for example.
In terms of exact evidence of getting the first waves later, its pretty hard to say, but if you look at the numbers it is rather interesting that the North East (NY in particular)where it's is obviously the major international hub for much of inbound traffic took an enormous beating first and elsewhere they have come later, the trends and data back that up.
The Masks thing is interesting, I have not been able to go into a shop without since April and everyone in the North East wears them. When I have moved around a little bit I have seen extremely good compliance of masks in the US. My brother was in a pub in Blackheath last weekend and even the staff were not wearing them. That really hasn't been a thing in the UK until very recently, correct? My parents said they were the ones wearing them in the farm shop a few weeks ago also. I don't think it is a political issues in the UK but from what I have heard it's hardly been the entire population wearing them throughout this. | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:20 - Jul 31 with 2514 views | giant_stow |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 13:49 - Jul 31 by footers |
They have a separate government and NHS to England. What do you expect them to do? |
I expect nothing from them! Just saying that this is the sort of move that will suit her just fine, as a nationalist. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:24 - Jul 31 with 2499 views | Darth_Koont |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:20 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
I expect nothing from them! Just saying that this is the sort of move that will suit her just fine, as a nationalist. |
The fact that it's important public health advice to the hundreds of thousands of Scots who usually flock to NW England during August is just convenient cover, I suppose? | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:26 - Jul 31 with 2487 views | giant_stow |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:24 - Jul 31 by Darth_Koont |
The fact that it's important public health advice to the hundreds of thousands of Scots who usually flock to NW England during August is just convenient cover, I suppose? |
if you want to put words into my mouth, thats fine go for it. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:30 - Jul 31 with 2468 views | Darth_Koont |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:26 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
if you want to put words into my mouth, thats fine go for it. |
OK then.
You think that there's political point-scoring going on so that justifies your political point-scoring.
There's a pandemic going on, you twerp. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:32 - Jul 31 with 2455 views | giant_stow |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:30 - Jul 31 by Darth_Koont |
OK then.
You think that there's political point-scoring going on so that justifies your political point-scoring.
There's a pandemic going on, you twerp. |
Considerirng that was a free hit, it was emotive and lame, as per.
2/10 | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:36 - Jul 31 with 2442 views | Darth_Koont |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:32 - Jul 31 by giant_stow |
Considerirng that was a free hit, it was emotive and lame, as per.
2/10 |
It was accurate though so ...
But can't wait for your next facetious hot take on Scotland. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:40 - Jul 31 with 2429 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 14:09 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
"I am not suggesting this action in March and April did not save lives. What I am saying is once the hotspots pop back up, which will happen, going back into a community lockdown appears reactionary. So to lockdown again is fighting a losing battle. That isn't learning to live with it, it's trying to beat it, which is not going to be possible until a vaccine."
Can you learn to live with something that kills so many people? Perhaps we do need to but what if there is a mutation and you suddenly find yourself in the worst affected cohort? I suspect your attitude would change rather quickly.
That article on Victoria says within it that stronger lockdowns were needed in Victoria to stop the cases.
"In terms of total death numbers it is clearly a very scary virus that is killing lots of (mainly vulnerable) people. People that don't really take a deep dive into this figures annually though would like be quite surprised on the number of people that die every year from various illnesses, the totals are always rather alarming."
I am sick of this angle being pushed.
In a bad flu year in the US perhaps 60,000 people will die (over the entire year). That is awful but that is also with everyone going about their daily business and socialising without social distancing. C19 has killed 150,000 in the US in 4 months with lockdowns, social distancing, schools closed and offices closed. There is no comparison with other seasonal diseases. If there had not been huge measures taken that death toll could easily be 10 times what it is currently.
Perhaps people do look at the figures and draw conclusions without bringing in their own bias?
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 14:10]
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Can you learn to live with something that kills so may people?
Yes we need to try - it's called adaptation. If we do not try, I would like to know your strategy. printing money and keeping the young and healthy at home until a vaccine is not viable. Even forgetting the economic ruin for a moment, the social and philological damage will be so vast for tens of millions, that they are their family would have a 99+%chance of surviving in terms of the infection.
Can you trust everyone in society, no you can't but that is not my fault and it is not your fault either we just have to try our best.
In terms of the flu, I did not equate it to the flu, only you done that. I was talking about a vast amount of deaths that many vulnerable people succumb to. | | | |
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