| Absolute farce 06:32 - Sep 16 with 10493 views | homer_123 |
1,000 fans at football matches.
This Gov have lost the plot. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:09 - Sep 16 with 2526 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Absolute farce on 10:00 - Sep 16 by giant_stow |
I see what you're saying, but controlling everyone by harsh lockdown measures stops them and their mates making more money, so not sure it adds up. |
Depends what mates you are talking about. I think they may have moved on from Landlords etc. now and found bigger mates. Look at the ones that don't get effected by a lockdown, and in all likelihood benefit....Amazon etc. |  | | |
| Absolute farce on 10:13 - Sep 16 with 2524 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Absolute farce on 09:36 - Sep 16 by gordon |
Yes, the best way to think about it (from Adam Kucharski) is that to keep the virus under control there's a threshold of spread beyond which we shouldn't cross, and a budget of different parts of society that can be open to keep us within that threshold. To prioritise within that budget, we have to have a hierarchy of how important we think parts of society are.
It doesn't necessarily matter whether something that is more risky is open, and something less risky is closed, as long as we're within our transmission budget - whether we are prioritising effectively within that budget is another question - no-one from the government has explained it like this because their hierarchy of importance has nothing to do with societal welfare, and is determined basically by the cabinet's own connections and interests in different industries/activities etc. (like horse racing, grouse shooting etc.). |
I've not come across his stuff - I'll take a look, thanks. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:13 - Sep 16 with 2524 views | Herbivore |
| Absolute farce on 09:49 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
See my response to Dan, more power/control. |
Yeah I've seen it and it's all very vague. What specific benefit do they get? What is their end game? They are the government, they already have a lot of power. How does deliberately pushing for a second national lockdown benefit them? They already know they can do it, I don't see what they gain here. I agree with you that they don't really care about people but their main defining feature as a government is rank incompetence and cronyism. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:14 - Sep 16 with 2522 views | J2BLUE |
| Absolute farce on 09:42 - Sep 16 by homer_123 |
What is the alternative though Rommy?
If we can't get a grip on it - we have to do things differently. Be madness not to. Unless you advocate carrying on regardless. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 9:43]
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Portman Road has a capacity of, lets say, 29000 without restricted view etc. It is perfectly possible to have 10-20% capacity without issue. People are encouraged to take their own vehicles to events like this. There have also been cases of hairdressers having Covid and cutting tens of clients' hair throughout the day and there was not one case of passing on the virus when both wore masks.
Surely the following is acceptable?
10% without maks
20% with masks on at all times
Not being funny mate but I assume you're in a secure job where you can work from home so reopening isn't a big thing for you? Many people can't do that. We haven't heard of supermarket outbreaks yet the staff in there are mostly working without masks. It's ridiculous to suggest stadiums can't reopen at 10-20% for now. People would be a lot more likely to follow the rules if they were more sensible. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:19 - Sep 16 with 2505 views | giant_stow |
| Absolute farce on 10:14 - Sep 16 by J2BLUE |
Portman Road has a capacity of, lets say, 29000 without restricted view etc. It is perfectly possible to have 10-20% capacity without issue. People are encouraged to take their own vehicles to events like this. There have also been cases of hairdressers having Covid and cutting tens of clients' hair throughout the day and there was not one case of passing on the virus when both wore masks.
Surely the following is acceptable?
10% without maks
20% with masks on at all times
Not being funny mate but I assume you're in a secure job where you can work from home so reopening isn't a big thing for you? Many people can't do that. We haven't heard of supermarket outbreaks yet the staff in there are mostly working without masks. It's ridiculous to suggest stadiums can't reopen at 10-20% for now. People would be a lot more likely to follow the rules if they were more sensible. |
I was gonna say you lot have been practising social distancing at PR for a long time innit. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:30 - Sep 16 with 2486 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Absolute farce on 10:08 - Sep 16 by jayessess |
Much of the current evidence suggests that the better a country does in controlling Covid-19, the less economic damage the country suffers. |
Clearly. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:31 - Sep 16 with 2484 views | SitfcB |
| Absolute farce on 08:20 - Sep 16 by homer_123 |
No Joe, not a decent start - it shouldn't be happening at all. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 8:22]
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Bore off. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:32 - Sep 16 with 2479 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Absolutely nothing definitive there. | |
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| Absolute farce on 10:35 - Sep 16 with 2471 views | SitfcB |
| Absolute farce on 10:19 - Sep 16 by giant_stow |
I was gonna say you lot have been practising social distancing at PR for a long time innit. |
But at least Carrow Road can still be full as you’re all one family. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 10:35]
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| Absolute farce on 10:36 - Sep 16 with 2467 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Absolute farce on 09:42 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
Because they care more about exercising their new authoritarian powers than they do about the economy, in my humble opinion.
Do their actions in 2020 suggest they truly care about peoples livelihoods, small to medium businesses etc.? A few token gestures like 'eat out to help out' might give the perception that they care but I don't genuinely believe they do. |
Sorry but this is ridiculous.
If anything they are getting pelters for putting the economy before people's welfare!
The reality is there has to be a balance and it's incredibly difficult to get that balance right.
The OP and some others are right from the perspective that we shut this thing down and try to stop it. However economically it is disastrous and has other repurcussions e.g the more the economy weakens the worse things like the NHS get longer term which can give us more health problems the the virus longer term (potentially) and all the other issues (mental health/abuse etc from shutting up shop/isolation. It's incredibly complicated issue. I think both sides have valid arguments honestly.
I keep hearing people on both sides saying either government ridiculous or shutting everything ridiculous. Reality is there is not a perfect solution. Both sides have bad consequences. |  |
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| Absolute farce on 10:43 - Sep 16 with 2447 views | DebsyAngel |
| Absolute farce on 09:34 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
I think we know the answer to that one. It's been a compere fudge throughout and since coming out of the tighter measures the messaging has been all over the place, so much contradiction and so many U-turns. We never really got cases low enough to be able to effectively test, track, and trace, and we've never had a test, track, and trace system effective enough to keep a lid on the virus when we reopen. Totally farcical. I can't understand why they are ploughing on with reopening everything as though the virus is under control when cases are surging and we've got no testing capacity. |
Totally agree with you 100%. Have lessons not been learnt? The way this whole shambles has been dealt with is a disgrace. I will not be returning to the ground until this thing has a vaccine. I am at risk and it's bad enough for me going into town once a week - social distancing has become obsolete from what I see. I try to distance but haven't got eyes at the back of my head. Some people cannot even follow directions of arrows in the street or know left from right! And these pathetic little "slogans" make me cringe. Like something a primary school kid would come up with. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 10:48]
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| Absolute farce on 11:15 - Sep 16 with 2423 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Absolute farce on 10:13 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
Yeah I've seen it and it's all very vague. What specific benefit do they get? What is their end game? They are the government, they already have a lot of power. How does deliberately pushing for a second national lockdown benefit them? They already know they can do it, I don't see what they gain here. I agree with you that they don't really care about people but their main defining feature as a government is rank incompetence and cronyism. |
Well maybe you are right but then again maybe something more sinister is afoot. The Government has a certain amount of power of course, but there is plenty of scope to claim much more in this country in particular.
We are already being gently sold on the ideas of digital health passports etc. Boris said the other day with his operation moonshot nonsense that it was a way for people to gain back their 'freedom'
'Sir can I see proof of your negative covid test for today please?' No test? sorry, no entry to work/football/shops/theatre etc.
Think this is conspiracy nonsense? Well Boris doesn't seem to think so.
“Theaters and sports venues could test all audience members one day and let in all those with a negative result, all those who are not infectious,” he said. “Workplaces could be opened up to all those who test negative in the morning to behave in a way that was exactly as in the world before covid.”
A year ago it would have sounded absurd for such a proposal in the UK, now It is really not beyond the realms of possibility that this could happen, all to keep us 'safe' of course, not for any other reason. I don't know about you but this is not really a world I want to live in because of a virus with a mortality rate no worse ( and possibly even lower ) than influenza.
It looks like our friends in Communist China are already offering to provide the technology to make it all happen for us. Does anybody doubt this Government would blow billions of tax payers money on making this a reality?
https://news.sky.com/story/pms-operation-moonshot-plan-can-be-done-says-chinese-
The more we are driven into the ground by restrictions and 'lockdowns' the more likely the general public will be willing to trade freedoms with getting back to 'normal'.
So yes I do very much see a motivation for the Government to facilitate another lockdown. I don't believe the short term crashing of the economy will deter them if there is a longer term goal in mind. I'm sure you are right though, they are just incompetent. Lets hope so. | | | |
| Absolute farce on 12:00 - Sep 16 with 2397 views | Herbivore |
| Absolute farce on 11:15 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
Well maybe you are right but then again maybe something more sinister is afoot. The Government has a certain amount of power of course, but there is plenty of scope to claim much more in this country in particular.
We are already being gently sold on the ideas of digital health passports etc. Boris said the other day with his operation moonshot nonsense that it was a way for people to gain back their 'freedom'
'Sir can I see proof of your negative covid test for today please?' No test? sorry, no entry to work/football/shops/theatre etc.
Think this is conspiracy nonsense? Well Boris doesn't seem to think so.
“Theaters and sports venues could test all audience members one day and let in all those with a negative result, all those who are not infectious,” he said. “Workplaces could be opened up to all those who test negative in the morning to behave in a way that was exactly as in the world before covid.”
A year ago it would have sounded absurd for such a proposal in the UK, now It is really not beyond the realms of possibility that this could happen, all to keep us 'safe' of course, not for any other reason. I don't know about you but this is not really a world I want to live in because of a virus with a mortality rate no worse ( and possibly even lower ) than influenza.
It looks like our friends in Communist China are already offering to provide the technology to make it all happen for us. Does anybody doubt this Government would blow billions of tax payers money on making this a reality?
https://news.sky.com/story/pms-operation-moonshot-plan-can-be-done-says-chinese-
The more we are driven into the ground by restrictions and 'lockdowns' the more likely the general public will be willing to trade freedoms with getting back to 'normal'.
So yes I do very much see a motivation for the Government to facilitate another lockdown. I don't believe the short term crashing of the economy will deter them if there is a longer term goal in mind. I'm sure you are right though, they are just incompetent. Lets hope so. |
Mate, this is just all over the shop and I'm sorry to say it does sound like conspiracy nonsense. Venues testing for Covid and using test results to make admission decisions would indeed have sounded crazy a year ago, mainly because we weren't in a Covid pandemic a year ago. I don't think this is some massive programme of control, the mass testing is a potential means to open up more of society in a safe way. If you want to opt out then opt out. It's all pie in the sky stuff at the minute anyway. | |
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| Absolute farce on 12:20 - Sep 16 with 2377 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Absolute farce on 12:00 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
Mate, this is just all over the shop and I'm sorry to say it does sound like conspiracy nonsense. Venues testing for Covid and using test results to make admission decisions would indeed have sounded crazy a year ago, mainly because we weren't in a Covid pandemic a year ago. I don't think this is some massive programme of control, the mass testing is a potential means to open up more of society in a safe way. If you want to opt out then opt out. It's all pie in the sky stuff at the minute anyway. |
You really think it is a conspiracy to suggest that Johnson, Hancock etc. currently are ( and would seek to further ) overstep their powers? I think you are being rather naive and I have to say there are many perfectly sane and intelligent people that would beg to differ, former supreme court justice Lord Sumption for one.
Its not really pie in the Sky stuff if Boris is actually talking about it is it. I appreciate their track record for actually delivering on what they say they are going to do is abysmal, but the very fact he is talking along those lines should be of great concern to anybody that values basic freedom and civil liberties. | | | |
| Absolute farce on 12:28 - Sep 16 with 2372 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Absolute farce on 11:15 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
Well maybe you are right but then again maybe something more sinister is afoot. The Government has a certain amount of power of course, but there is plenty of scope to claim much more in this country in particular.
We are already being gently sold on the ideas of digital health passports etc. Boris said the other day with his operation moonshot nonsense that it was a way for people to gain back their 'freedom'
'Sir can I see proof of your negative covid test for today please?' No test? sorry, no entry to work/football/shops/theatre etc.
Think this is conspiracy nonsense? Well Boris doesn't seem to think so.
“Theaters and sports venues could test all audience members one day and let in all those with a negative result, all those who are not infectious,” he said. “Workplaces could be opened up to all those who test negative in the morning to behave in a way that was exactly as in the world before covid.”
A year ago it would have sounded absurd for such a proposal in the UK, now It is really not beyond the realms of possibility that this could happen, all to keep us 'safe' of course, not for any other reason. I don't know about you but this is not really a world I want to live in because of a virus with a mortality rate no worse ( and possibly even lower ) than influenza.
It looks like our friends in Communist China are already offering to provide the technology to make it all happen for us. Does anybody doubt this Government would blow billions of tax payers money on making this a reality?
https://news.sky.com/story/pms-operation-moonshot-plan-can-be-done-says-chinese-
The more we are driven into the ground by restrictions and 'lockdowns' the more likely the general public will be willing to trade freedoms with getting back to 'normal'.
So yes I do very much see a motivation for the Government to facilitate another lockdown. I don't believe the short term crashing of the economy will deter them if there is a longer term goal in mind. I'm sure you are right though, they are just incompetent. Lets hope so. |
They don't need Covid for an executive power grab - they were doing it anyway with their attacks on parliament, the judiciary and general approach to remove many of the safeguards that protect democracy (and suppressing information around events that threaten said democracy, such as their Russian links).
Besides, the evidence points to them not wanting to lockdown, such as locking down too late, opening things up before being ready to implement a strategy of local containment, etc. | |
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| Absolute farce on 13:34 - Sep 16 with 2342 views | Herbivore |
| Absolute farce on 12:20 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
You really think it is a conspiracy to suggest that Johnson, Hancock etc. currently are ( and would seek to further ) overstep their powers? I think you are being rather naive and I have to say there are many perfectly sane and intelligent people that would beg to differ, former supreme court justice Lord Sumption for one.
Its not really pie in the Sky stuff if Boris is actually talking about it is it. I appreciate their track record for actually delivering on what they say they are going to do is abysmal, but the very fact he is talking along those lines should be of great concern to anybody that values basic freedom and civil liberties. |
You can opt out of testing if you want, the government can't force you to have a test. Mass testing is about the only public health measure that could get us back close to normality in lieu of a vaccine or highly effective treatment.
Sorry mate but it's a lot of vague "they want more power" coupled with some well trodden conspiracy tropes. There really is not tangible benefit to the whole country having to lockdown again. | |
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| Absolute farce on 13:42 - Sep 16 with 2335 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Absolute farce on 12:20 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
You really think it is a conspiracy to suggest that Johnson, Hancock etc. currently are ( and would seek to further ) overstep their powers? I think you are being rather naive and I have to say there are many perfectly sane and intelligent people that would beg to differ, former supreme court justice Lord Sumption for one.
Its not really pie in the Sky stuff if Boris is actually talking about it is it. I appreciate their track record for actually delivering on what they say they are going to do is abysmal, but the very fact he is talking along those lines should be of great concern to anybody that values basic freedom and civil liberties. |
Do you believe in UFO's as well? | | | |
| Absolute farce on 13:56 - Sep 16 with 2302 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Absolute farce on 12:20 - Sep 16 by Harry_Palmer |
You really think it is a conspiracy to suggest that Johnson, Hancock etc. currently are ( and would seek to further ) overstep their powers? I think you are being rather naive and I have to say there are many perfectly sane and intelligent people that would beg to differ, former supreme court justice Lord Sumption for one.
Its not really pie in the Sky stuff if Boris is actually talking about it is it. I appreciate their track record for actually delivering on what they say they are going to do is abysmal, but the very fact he is talking along those lines should be of great concern to anybody that values basic freedom and civil liberties. |
I don't agree with these ideas, simply because implementation of such '1984'-esque measures into life would (in theory) equally impact on the lives of the politicians' families and friends etc, as well as just 'you and I'.
Why would they want to do that to those whom they (again, in theory) genuinely care about, unless of course they're actually complete psychopaths? |  |
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| Absolute farce on 14:06 - Sep 16 with 2285 views | J2BLUE |
We see plenty of UFOs. The U is the big clue here. | |
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| Absolute farce on 14:08 - Sep 16 with 2283 views | SitfcB |
Great to see, good signs.
Love to see it.
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| Absolute farce on 14:09 - Sep 16 with 2280 views | Herbivore |
| Absolute farce on 14:08 - Sep 16 by SitfcB |
Great to see, good signs.
Love to see it.
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Happy en. | |
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| Absolute farce on 14:10 - Sep 16 with 2275 views | J2BLUE |
| Absolute farce on 14:08 - Sep 16 by SitfcB |
Great to see, good signs.
Love to see it.
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Great stuff. | |
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| Absolute farce on 14:28 - Sep 16 with 2242 views | bournemouthblue |
| Absolute farce on 10:36 - Sep 16 by Terry_Nutkins |
Sorry but this is ridiculous.
If anything they are getting pelters for putting the economy before people's welfare!
The reality is there has to be a balance and it's incredibly difficult to get that balance right.
The OP and some others are right from the perspective that we shut this thing down and try to stop it. However economically it is disastrous and has other repurcussions e.g the more the economy weakens the worse things like the NHS get longer term which can give us more health problems the the virus longer term (potentially) and all the other issues (mental health/abuse etc from shutting up shop/isolation. It's incredibly complicated issue. I think both sides have valid arguments honestly.
I keep hearing people on both sides saying either government ridiculous or shutting everything ridiculous. Reality is there is not a perfect solution. Both sides have bad consequences. |
The Government have made countless errors the whole way through the crisis but the biggest one fundamentally is Test, Track and Trace which they have completely ruined
A working Test, Track and Trace system would have allowed for digital lockdowns, quarantining the virus smartly rather than having to shutdown entire areas
This is really the biggest area they need to be held to account on, it's been nothing short of a disgrace |  |
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| Absolute farce on 16:25 - Sep 16 with 2192 views | Radlett_blue |
| Absolute farce on 13:34 - Sep 16 by Herbivore |
You can opt out of testing if you want, the government can't force you to have a test. Mass testing is about the only public health measure that could get us back close to normality in lieu of a vaccine or highly effective treatment.
Sorry mate but it's a lot of vague "they want more power" coupled with some well trodden conspiracy tropes. There really is not tangible benefit to the whole country having to lockdown again. |
How regularly do you need to test people in order to control the growth of COVID? You can test them one day, but they might then catch the virus the next day. This is going to involve a physically impossible number of test, plus the resources you are devoting to testing. |  |
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