| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:34 - Sep 25 with 2937 views | Darth_Koont |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 16:52 - Sep 25 by HARRY10 |
"Ratcliffe, the founder and chief executive of petrochemicals company Ineos, was an ardent supporter of the vote leave campaign, declaring that the UK would thrive without red tape from Brussels."
and the numpties believed him
Whereas freight alone will require 4m extra forms a week and 50,000 staff to deal with the increased regulation,
What this shyster was on about was EU regulations that improved worker safety, food hygiene and environmental protection. Because they are ultimately a charge on business profits, not employees wages.
The big con was to convince enough of the stupid that the EU was interfering in our lives by banning fish and chops in newspaper, stopping kids playing conkers and outlawing Christmas. Whereas it has actually spent the past few decades improving the quality of life for its citizens,,
Of course there is the no small matter of its activities in chasing tax dodgers - those on the extreme end. I wonder if that could be the reason so many of the wealthy are anti EU. |
Good post.
And this is where our political debate lets us down. Both in the emotive, empty platitudes used by people like Farage, Johnson and now it seems Starmer and the media who are happy to stoke and feed off that type of debate. Because it a) fits the agenda of the billionaire press barons who know they have the perfect platform to shape and drive it and b) even the likes of the BBC and Guardian who know that it creates the clickbait that best drives their business model.
Any factual and more objective analysis of politics and Brexit would have focused on the lies. And focused on the dubious credentials of backers like a petrochemical billionaire who hates paying tax, and who knows that the EU is the greatest reformer on both his industry and his wealth.
But they gave us a Union Jack blindfold and appeals to join up for a culture/identity war instead. The sort of war where everybody loses except those who are directing the troops and know that they can just quit whenever.
We have to get far more critical and serious about what it is and who we’re lending our voices and votes to. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:37 - Sep 25 with 2931 views | giant_stow |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 17:28 - Sep 25 by hampstead_blue |
Typical Guardian whinge.
A successful person change his domiciled status and they crow about Brexit!
Firstly I do not agree with the changing of domiciled status to reduce your tax bill.
I think we need radical reform of tax to keep these people in the UK and paying something.
I do find the Guardian and those here utter cry babies over Brexit. Really people, you are in the minority. Let it go!
You will do anything to abuse the majority who voted for Brexit. Let it go. |
Hes probably laughing at working people who defend him over this |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:46 - Sep 25 with 2904 views | Suffolktractor |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:34 - Sep 25 by Darth_Koont |
Good post.
And this is where our political debate lets us down. Both in the emotive, empty platitudes used by people like Farage, Johnson and now it seems Starmer and the media who are happy to stoke and feed off that type of debate. Because it a) fits the agenda of the billionaire press barons who know they have the perfect platform to shape and drive it and b) even the likes of the BBC and Guardian who know that it creates the clickbait that best drives their business model.
Any factual and more objective analysis of politics and Brexit would have focused on the lies. And focused on the dubious credentials of backers like a petrochemical billionaire who hates paying tax, and who knows that the EU is the greatest reformer on both his industry and his wealth.
But they gave us a Union Jack blindfold and appeals to join up for a culture/identity war instead. The sort of war where everybody loses except those who are directing the troops and know that they can just quit whenever.
We have to get far more critical and serious about what it is and who we’re lending our voices and votes to. |
Neither the EU nor successive UK governments including Blair and Brown have ever done anything about tax avoidance by rich individuals or large corporations.
Everyone says the right thing but does nothing. |  | | |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:46 - Sep 25 with 2904 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:30 - Sep 25 by jeera |
As for "our identity and country."
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?
AAAARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!11!!! |
I've got no idea. Someone yesterday accused Hampstead of just spouting a word salad. And this is a good example. It means nothing as a throwaway line, but it works as a recruiting tool obviously (sadly?).
But, I'm trying to be good and not rise to such things. Actually Hammers and the rest of us all agree on the main point, which is that people changing their dom status to get out of paying tax isn't a good thing. The Brexit angle, as ever, is just something that gets in the way and stops us coming together. Divide and rule innit. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:48 - Sep 25 with 2898 views | longtimefan |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 17:24 - Sep 25 by HARRY10 |
A common misconception, as taxes are a charge on the employer not the employee, as the latter works for the net figure, therefore it is the former who pays the tax. |
Not sure how that can be true as the amount of tax paid depends on the individual’s circumstances. It is based on taxable income, not gross income. For instance my tax depends on how much I pay into my pension and other allowances I may claim. | | | |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:53 - Sep 25 with 2886 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:48 - Sep 25 by longtimefan |
Not sure how that can be true as the amount of tax paid depends on the individual’s circumstances. It is based on taxable income, not gross income. For instance my tax depends on how much I pay into my pension and other allowances I may claim. |
Yes, that's a more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to. My contract is in gross. And then the amount of tax I pay depends on my tax code, which is calculated according to various individual circumstances. And then ultimately it can all change from a tax return and I'm the one that has to pay any extra owing (or gets the refund). It seems very much paid by the individual to me (even if an employer carries out the initial part of the transaction). | |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:54 - Sep 25 with 2884 views | CrayonKing |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:23 - Sep 25 by hampstead_blue |
It's about tax.
It's about the fact that our tax system is broken and needs some serious reform.
I'd take this person's actions as a serious wake-up call and sort out tax. |
Spoken like a true lefty ;) |  | | |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 19:45 - Sep 25 with 2838 views | Darth_Koont |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:46 - Sep 25 by Suffolktractor |
Neither the EU nor successive UK governments including Blair and Brown have ever done anything about tax avoidance by rich individuals or large corporations.
Everyone says the right thing but does nothing. |
Agreed. Because we’ve become utterly obsessed with giving people what they want rather than what we and society collectively needs. Like giving into spoilt kids.
We’ve got one of the lowest combined rates of income and corporate tax in this country. And we wonder why money for services is such an issue.
And that’s at a base level. We can barely bring ourselves to tax the ultra-rich and multi-nationals as it is. That sort of policy works for Ireland because they need money flowing and there’s little to no industry or population to support.
In a country of 65 million with a far more diverse and established economy and a more complicated society that’s resulted, it’s an insane approach. | |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 19:48 - Sep 25 with 2827 views | noggin |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:30 - Sep 25 by jeera |
As for "our identity and country."
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?
AAAARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!11!!! |
Why you lot bother reading his crap is beyond me. Ignore is your friend here. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:00 - Sep 25 with 2800 views | hampstead_blue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:54 - Sep 25 by CrayonKing |
Spoken like a true lefty ;) |
Well said.
I've long been hugely annoyed by non-doms. Why should people feel the need to leave when the answers are simply to completely reform the entire UK tax system.
I'd go so far as say that if you go non-dom then you lose many of the benefits of your citizenship. Don't pay, then you can't play.
This chap and many others are clearly rattled by the numbers asked by HMRC. If those numbers were different then they would stay. We would get more tax and everyone would be better off.
Problem is that it would mean greatly reducing tax at the top end. How many here would vote for that?
I would if it meant more wealth was bought back into the UK's jurisdiction.
Let's make everything over £200m tax free. No CGT. Nothing. That would bring back bucket loads of cash but more, it would attract yet more to apply for citizenship.
Yes it would make the super rich even more rich. So what. They've more than enough. Let them enjoy it. This bloke has made bucket loads by investing and spending. Let him do more.
Radical thought and action is what is needed.
Brexit? Forget it. It's done, over, gone.
Heads together and do something really cool with tax and you watch the money come back......
Too much? Need a drink?
I'm off to bed. Seriously bad headache. Sweet dreams my lovely TWTD'ers.... |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:08 - Sep 25 with 2804 views | vapour_trail |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 17:28 - Sep 25 by hampstead_blue |
Typical Guardian whinge.
A successful person change his domiciled status and they crow about Brexit!
Firstly I do not agree with the changing of domiciled status to reduce your tax bill.
I think we need radical reform of tax to keep these people in the UK and paying something.
I do find the Guardian and those here utter cry babies over Brexit. Really people, you are in the minority. Let it go!
You will do anything to abuse the majority who voted for Brexit. Let it go. |
I have attempted to defend you at times when I have felt the pile on was a bit OTT.
You’re embarrassing yourself here. You’re defending this as a default position when you don’t even agree with it. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:25 - Sep 25 with 2781 views | jeera |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:08 - Sep 25 by vapour_trail |
I have attempted to defend you at times when I have felt the pile on was a bit OTT.
You’re embarrassing yourself here. You’re defending this as a default position when you don’t even agree with it. |
You don't like the perception of bullying because you're a nice guy.
Nothing wrong with that.
But I do think that sometimes you miss some of these moments and that they are more common than perhaps you've noticed! |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 21:03 - Sep 25 with 2734 views | Eireannach_gorm |
Making Monaco great again. |  | | |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 21:32 - Sep 25 with 2711 views | vapour_trail |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:25 - Sep 25 by jeera |
You don't like the perception of bullying because you're a nice guy.
Nothing wrong with that.
But I do think that sometimes you miss some of these moments and that they are more common than perhaps you've noticed! |
I can be as much of a tit as the next man.
I should hope I miss most of what goes on. Much as I love this board.
Edit: tit not fit. I was not claiming to be fit. [Post edited 25 Sep 2020 21:52]
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 22:37 - Sep 25 with 2663 views | SpruceMoose |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 17:28 - Sep 25 by hampstead_blue |
Typical Guardian whinge.
A successful person change his domiciled status and they crow about Brexit!
Firstly I do not agree with the changing of domiciled status to reduce your tax bill.
I think we need radical reform of tax to keep these people in the UK and paying something.
I do find the Guardian and those here utter cry babies over Brexit. Really people, you are in the minority. Let it go!
You will do anything to abuse the majority who voted for Brexit. Let it go. |
Get to the doctor quick. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 22:55 - Sep 25 with 2644 views | CrayonKing |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:00 - Sep 25 by hampstead_blue |
Well said.
I've long been hugely annoyed by non-doms. Why should people feel the need to leave when the answers are simply to completely reform the entire UK tax system.
I'd go so far as say that if you go non-dom then you lose many of the benefits of your citizenship. Don't pay, then you can't play.
This chap and many others are clearly rattled by the numbers asked by HMRC. If those numbers were different then they would stay. We would get more tax and everyone would be better off.
Problem is that it would mean greatly reducing tax at the top end. How many here would vote for that?
I would if it meant more wealth was bought back into the UK's jurisdiction.
Let's make everything over £200m tax free. No CGT. Nothing. That would bring back bucket loads of cash but more, it would attract yet more to apply for citizenship.
Yes it would make the super rich even more rich. So what. They've more than enough. Let them enjoy it. This bloke has made bucket loads by investing and spending. Let him do more.
Radical thought and action is what is needed.
Brexit? Forget it. It's done, over, gone.
Heads together and do something really cool with tax and you watch the money come back......
Too much? Need a drink?
I'm off to bed. Seriously bad headache. Sweet dreams my lovely TWTD'ers.... |
I think the down arrows are a little harsh. Seemed like a genuine attempt to engage and advance the discussion to me.
Pretty much with you on non-doms losing benefits of citizenship. I believe American citizens have to file US tax returns regardless of which country they live in. Can't see much reason why it should be any different here.
"rattled by the numbers asked by HMRC." hmmm. This guy is worth £17.5 BILLION. He could have his entire wealth taxed at 99% and he and all his family, and probably a few generations of dependents too, could live a life of luxury way beyond what most of us could imagine.
The reality is that he's taxed on income, not wealth, at a much lower rate, and due to various tax "efficiencies" his percentage of income taxed is probably vastly less than yours and mine. He paid £110m in 2017-18 which is great, but hardly the sort of thing that's going to rattle somebody worth billions. He'd have had to make £250m+ that year even if he was paying the full 45% tax (Highly unlikely!) so his take-home would have been decent enough not to feel too impoverished by it.
Seems to me that he stuck around paying UK tax just long enough to get his knighthood and then disappeared in to the sunset. I'm not sure there's a tax rate above 0% that he'd have been happy to pay.
We're already a pretty friendly country to the rich, with plenty of loopholes and clever accounting practices to bring the numbers right down. There's a reason (beyond political connections) why so many rich Russians end up in London. They don't seem too rattled by the numbers HMRC asks. | | | |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 00:43 - Sep 26 with 2594 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:00 - Sep 25 by hampstead_blue |
Well said.
I've long been hugely annoyed by non-doms. Why should people feel the need to leave when the answers are simply to completely reform the entire UK tax system.
I'd go so far as say that if you go non-dom then you lose many of the benefits of your citizenship. Don't pay, then you can't play.
This chap and many others are clearly rattled by the numbers asked by HMRC. If those numbers were different then they would stay. We would get more tax and everyone would be better off.
Problem is that it would mean greatly reducing tax at the top end. How many here would vote for that?
I would if it meant more wealth was bought back into the UK's jurisdiction.
Let's make everything over £200m tax free. No CGT. Nothing. That would bring back bucket loads of cash but more, it would attract yet more to apply for citizenship.
Yes it would make the super rich even more rich. So what. They've more than enough. Let them enjoy it. This bloke has made bucket loads by investing and spending. Let him do more.
Radical thought and action is what is needed.
Brexit? Forget it. It's done, over, gone.
Heads together and do something really cool with tax and you watch the money come back......
Too much? Need a drink?
I'm off to bed. Seriously bad headache. Sweet dreams my lovely TWTD'ers.... |
Ah, so if you tax the rich less then they will suddenly be happier to pay it instead of using all the loopholes that allow them to avoid paying?
Would you then reduce the amount Government spends on public services or increase the tax burden on the poorer in society?
The real answer is to close the loopholes. Quite how you prevent the overseas residence to avoid tax I am not sure. Maybe reducing benefits or maybe companies that are foreign owned having a higher tax burden but that then reduces foreign investment. Not sure there are any easy answers here. Certainly your simplistic reduce taxation for the richest is not one. However, it is also clear there has not been any real political will to close the tax loopholes for the richest aside from in opposition at times. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 00:58 - Sep 26 with 2589 views | bournemouthblue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 19:45 - Sep 25 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed. Because we’ve become utterly obsessed with giving people what they want rather than what we and society collectively needs. Like giving into spoilt kids.
We’ve got one of the lowest combined rates of income and corporate tax in this country. And we wonder why money for services is such an issue.
And that’s at a base level. We can barely bring ourselves to tax the ultra-rich and multi-nationals as it is. That sort of policy works for Ireland because they need money flowing and there’s little to no industry or population to support.
In a country of 65 million with a far more diverse and established economy and a more complicated society that’s resulted, it’s an insane approach. |
David Cameron talked about broken Britain but he looked at it from totally the wrong angle
We are massively unbalanced regionally and as an economy any way with far too much reliance on the financial sector
Is anyone going to address these problems? The Press Barons certainly don't want us to |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:27 - Sep 26 with 2485 views | hampstead_blue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 20:08 - Sep 25 by vapour_trail |
I have attempted to defend you at times when I have felt the pile on was a bit OTT.
You’re embarrassing yourself here. You’re defending this as a default position when you don’t even agree with it. |
My point is the inclusion of Brexit.
JR left the UK because our tax laws and system is broken and needs to be rebuilt for modern times.
I don't think it was a Brexit story but the Guardian just threw that in to ruin what could have been a very good story. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:35 - Sep 26 with 2472 views | hampstead_blue |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 22:55 - Sep 25 by CrayonKing |
I think the down arrows are a little harsh. Seemed like a genuine attempt to engage and advance the discussion to me.
Pretty much with you on non-doms losing benefits of citizenship. I believe American citizens have to file US tax returns regardless of which country they live in. Can't see much reason why it should be any different here.
"rattled by the numbers asked by HMRC." hmmm. This guy is worth £17.5 BILLION. He could have his entire wealth taxed at 99% and he and all his family, and probably a few generations of dependents too, could live a life of luxury way beyond what most of us could imagine.
The reality is that he's taxed on income, not wealth, at a much lower rate, and due to various tax "efficiencies" his percentage of income taxed is probably vastly less than yours and mine. He paid £110m in 2017-18 which is great, but hardly the sort of thing that's going to rattle somebody worth billions. He'd have had to make £250m+ that year even if he was paying the full 45% tax (Highly unlikely!) so his take-home would have been decent enough not to feel too impoverished by it.
Seems to me that he stuck around paying UK tax just long enough to get his knighthood and then disappeared in to the sunset. I'm not sure there's a tax rate above 0% that he'd have been happy to pay.
We're already a pretty friendly country to the rich, with plenty of loopholes and clever accounting practices to bring the numbers right down. There's a reason (beyond political connections) why so many rich Russians end up in London. They don't seem too rattled by the numbers HMRC asks. |
Really well put.
In some ways it's "which is worse". For Russians they get Putin, jail, death or UK and tax.
For JR is UK tax or 0%.
You are right in that for some people they will so selfish that ANY tax is too much. They can all have the same passport....."Land of selfish and most vacuous".
Still, he is a large investor and employer to the UK. The Grenadier is on my wish list of new cars.
As his wealth is so far on the margins I'd suggest that a tax policy to work with those sitting closer to the mean would improve things.
The down arrows, well they play the man not the ball. It's OK, I'm a bit slow at the moment so catch a few high tackles.
We do need a Gov who want to do more. Shame Covid has scrapped all chances of good ideas for a long time.
Edit; Dubtractor made a great point. Volatility is the time to bring in change. My thoughts were leaning toward the affordability, what with all the spending going on.
Now is probably the time to get something properly radical through. [Post edited 26 Sep 2020 9:02]
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:41 - Sep 26 with 2459 views | TractorWood |
Exhibit 2,678 confirming Brexit was a con conducted by the rich and selfish on the poorly informed and easily led. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:41 - Sep 26 with 2459 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 18:46 - Sep 25 by Swansea_Blue |
I've got no idea. Someone yesterday accused Hampstead of just spouting a word salad. And this is a good example. It means nothing as a throwaway line, but it works as a recruiting tool obviously (sadly?).
But, I'm trying to be good and not rise to such things. Actually Hammers and the rest of us all agree on the main point, which is that people changing their dom status to get out of paying tax isn't a good thing. The Brexit angle, as ever, is just something that gets in the way and stops us coming together. Divide and rule innit. |
Maybe it is blue remembered hills....M.U.K.G.A. ....innit. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:47 - Sep 26 with 2448 views | Dubtractor |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:41 - Sep 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Maybe it is blue remembered hills....M.U.K.G.A. ....innit. |
Hey Bankster.
Just for the avoidance of doubt, the OP isn't implying that all people who voted leave are scum, albeit I do think you were wrong, but more targetting the type of ballbag like Ratcliffe who talks a good game then does stuff like this. |  |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:54 - Sep 26 with 2443 views | Dubtractor |
| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:35 - Sep 26 by hampstead_blue |
Really well put.
In some ways it's "which is worse". For Russians they get Putin, jail, death or UK and tax.
For JR is UK tax or 0%.
You are right in that for some people they will so selfish that ANY tax is too much. They can all have the same passport....."Land of selfish and most vacuous".
Still, he is a large investor and employer to the UK. The Grenadier is on my wish list of new cars.
As his wealth is so far on the margins I'd suggest that a tax policy to work with those sitting closer to the mean would improve things.
The down arrows, well they play the man not the ball. It's OK, I'm a bit slow at the moment so catch a few high tackles.
We do need a Gov who want to do more. Shame Covid has scrapped all chances of good ideas for a long time.
Edit; Dubtractor made a great point. Volatility is the time to bring in change. My thoughts were leaning toward the affordability, what with all the spending going on.
Now is probably the time to get something properly radical through. [Post edited 26 Sep 2020 9:02]
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" Shame Covid has scrapped all chances of good ideas for a long time."
What does that even mean? Yes, it has screwed the economy, but now is therefore exactly the time for good ideas to try and fix things. It is exactly the time to try and get those who can afford it to contribute a bit more to try and fix the mess that Covid has landed us in.
At my place of work we are being challenged daily to think of ways to save or generate money to help fix this. | |
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| Another brexiter scumbag moving abroad to avoid supporting this country on 08:57 - Sep 26 with 2439 views | Keno |
just to be nerdy I think you will find he has changed his residency status not where he is domiciled
Not withstanding he is still a scumbag |  |
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