| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? 11:07 - Nov 18 with 9960 views | Steve_M |
Anyway, right decision from Starmer. Labour needs to demonstrate that it's complaints procedures are robust and yesterday failed at that regardless of the verdict reached. |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:15 - Nov 18 with 1282 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:00 - Nov 18 by SpruceMoose |
Eh. I'm not sure that's true. All posters definitely do not matter. Now, I myself don't mind a bit of salty language, but then I don't cry about being on the receiving end of it either.
You yourself didn't seem to mind when you flew off the handle and dished out the abuse below...
Or in this one:
Or in this one:
Or in this one:
Get your own house in order before worrying about others eh son? [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 15:12]
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You have too much time on your hands. |  | | |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:19 - Nov 18 with 1275 views | SpruceMoose |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:15 - Nov 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
You have too much time on your hands. |
It speaks!
I thought you were just a downvote bot!
This was the thing that triggered you into posting though? Someone crying about abusive posts being shown to post abusive comments themselves? Weird man. Very weird indeed.
But to answer your concern, in my line of work I'm pretty free to divvy up my time as I see fit. Quite the perk eh?! It's not like I have my hands full carrying bricks up a ladder, manning the conveyor belt at the Findus food factory or working in air traffic control! [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 15:24]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:46 - Nov 18 with 1226 views | Ryorry |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 12:12 - Nov 18 by JakeITFC |
Think they’re entitled to be annoyed considering part of the centrist arm conspired to cost Labour an election in 2017. |
Bit rich considering the leftist still rooting-for-Corbyn arm (  ) were from the outset of KS's leadership, and still are currently, busily engaged in trying to metaphorically shoot Starmer down from all angles.
Anyone would think they were putting their idol Corbyn before the Labour Party, kicking the Tories out, & ultimately the good of the country ... |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:58 - Nov 18 with 1207 views | Herbivore |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 13:23 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont |
You didn’t answer whether it was right of Starmer to put that in his EHRC report statement.
This has been an exhausting 4 or 5 years and the smear campaign was incredibly damaging to UK politics and the fight against antisemitism it must also be said. Trying to whitewash it is a purely political move and especially cynical on the occasion of the EHRC report.
Do I wish Corbyn hadn’t responded to the provocation? Yes. But not sure he had much choice given it was possibly the most smeary step of all to try and establish it as recorded and accepted history.
Starmer has disappointed on almost every level compared to the candidate he said he was. Not entirely sure why it’s going so wrong for him and why his choices seem so clumsy. |
What did Starmer put in his statement that was problematic? I can't quite suss it out from your posts. I don't know, Darth, I like you and there's a lot we agree on politically but your posting on this doesn't do much to allay the notion that Corbynites are rather cultish. You demonise Starmer at every turn whilst justifying everything Corbyn does.
The worst response possible to the EHRC report was to come out on the day it was published and imply that the issue had been exaggerated, and yet this is exactly what Corbyn did. If nothing else it is entirely bloody stupid on the most benign evaluation of it. One could argue it's something more than that and that actually it may not be Starmer who is a threat to unity in the Labour Party....... |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:01 - Nov 18 with 1203 views | JakeITFC |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:46 - Nov 18 by Ryorry |
Bit rich considering the leftist still rooting-for-Corbyn arm ( ) were from the outset of KS's leadership, and still are currently, busily engaged in trying to metaphorically shoot Starmer down from all angles.
Anyone would think they were putting their idol Corbyn before the Labour Party, kicking the Tories out, & ultimately the good of the country ... |
This would be fine as an opinion if people were consistent in holding it about Labour, for example during the 2017 election when people in the party *actually* tried to stop them winning the election.
All well and good being anti-party politics now when it means nothing in the grand scheme of things - all of this hand-rubbing about how awful the tories are and how sad it is that we can't feed our poorest children is mostly coming from people who dismissed the option to remove them just last year.
For the avoidance of doubt on my position - Labour had (and still probably has) a major anti-semitism problem. But it also had a group of people, both inside and outside of the party, who were desperate for them not to win, and for the left-wing of the movement to be suppressed for whatever reason. There is nuance in the position, and that has to be considered when thinking about the actions of Starmer today and since he took over. |  | | |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:06 - Nov 18 with 1193 views | factual_blue |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 14:28 - Nov 18 by SpruceMoose |
I know that it's just a joke on this thread, but as a wider point I always find it interesting that Diane Abbott's appearance is so frequently mentioned when discussing her. I struggle to think of many other sitting female MPs who are referred to as ugly so frequently.
In the same way, it's notable that Venus and Serena Williams had their appearance picked apart negatively far more during their careers than any other world class athletes.
Anyway, carry on. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 14:30]
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Yeah, but Ed Milliband can't even eat a bacon sandwich. |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:06 - Nov 18 with 1189 views | giant_stow |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:01 - Nov 18 by JakeITFC |
This would be fine as an opinion if people were consistent in holding it about Labour, for example during the 2017 election when people in the party *actually* tried to stop them winning the election.
All well and good being anti-party politics now when it means nothing in the grand scheme of things - all of this hand-rubbing about how awful the tories are and how sad it is that we can't feed our poorest children is mostly coming from people who dismissed the option to remove them just last year.
For the avoidance of doubt on my position - Labour had (and still probably has) a major anti-semitism problem. But it also had a group of people, both inside and outside of the party, who were desperate for them not to win, and for the left-wing of the movement to be suppressed for whatever reason. There is nuance in the position, and that has to be considered when thinking about the actions of Starmer today and since he took over. |
Seeing as you seem to be talking about me in part of that, I can only repeat that I voted Labour at both the last two elections. Some are yet to comfirm that, which is their right. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 16:08]
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:10 - Nov 18 with 1179 views | JakeITFC |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:06 - Nov 18 by giant_stow |
Seeing as you seem to be talking about me in part of that, I can only repeat that I voted Labour at both the last two elections. Some are yet to comfirm that, which is their right. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 16:08]
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At nobody in particular mate.
It's just been a quite funny year in seeing the public championing the values of the NHS, looking after our poorest in terms of both money and opportunity, as well as a very solid case for a high quality national broadband provision! | | | |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:12 - Nov 18 with 1179 views | Darth_Koont |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 14:22 - Nov 18 by itfcjoe |
"Meanwhile Labour stands for ... competence? Well, let’s see how long that lasts when the leadership already looks incompetent, untrustworthy and clueless in its party management."
Only to the true neutrals like you DK |
Do you have any insight into the party management? The people who think Starmer is managing the party well hate socialism and just see him punching left like they do.
It seems a crappy way to run a party and certainly deliver the unity and broad church that was promised. |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:14 - Nov 18 with 1167 views | itfcjoe |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:12 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont |
Do you have any insight into the party management? The people who think Starmer is managing the party well hate socialism and just see him punching left like they do.
It seems a crappy way to run a party and certainly deliver the unity and broad church that was promised. |
I think it's clear to see it is being much more competently run than it has been under Corbyn - a man who couldn't follow the agreed party lines from those around him and on his side who were desperate for him to do so to give the project any chance. |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:23 - Nov 18 with 1148 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 14:19 - Nov 18 by factual_blue |
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She seemed a lot cleverer/attached to reality back then too. Some of her early speeches were quite inspiring. Now she just leaves me scratching my head wondering what she's on about. |  |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:26 - Nov 18 with 1143 views | SpruceMoose |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:23 - Nov 18 by Swansea_Blue |
She seemed a lot cleverer/attached to reality back then too. Some of her early speeches were quite inspiring. Now she just leaves me scratching my head wondering what she's on about. |
Her constituents seem to like her though. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:29 - Nov 18 with 1137 views | itfcjoe |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:26 - Nov 18 by SpruceMoose |
Her constituents seem to like her though. |
In a seat Labour have held since it's inception in 1950......
By definition, every member of parliament is liked by their constituents | |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:31 - Nov 18 with 1130 views | StokieBlue |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:29 - Nov 18 by itfcjoe |
In a seat Labour have held since it's inception in 1950......
By definition, every member of parliament is liked by their constituents |
She's my MP and she does seem to be liked by a lot of people around here.
There are squadrons of people doing her bidding whenever the elections come around.
As you've pointed out though, Labour would likely win the seat regardless of who is put up.
SB |  | | |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:32 - Nov 18 with 1124 views | giant_stow |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:10 - Nov 18 by JakeITFC |
At nobody in particular mate.
It's just been a quite funny year in seeing the public championing the values of the NHS, looking after our poorest in terms of both money and opportunity, as well as a very solid case for a high quality national broadband provision! |
Fair enough - maybe I'm just still in argue mode. | |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:35 - Nov 18 with 1113 views | Darth_Koont |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:14 - Nov 18 by itfcjoe |
I think it's clear to see it is being much more competently run than it has been under Corbyn - a man who couldn't follow the agreed party lines from those around him and on his side who were desperate for him to do so to give the project any chance. |
How is it clear? Starmer and the General Secretary immediately ignored the recommendations of the EHRC by stepping around procedure to suspend Corbin. And on what grounds?
He’s also said in that step and subsequently that members and CLP can’t talk about an antisemitism smear campaign or the Corbyn suspension. But he can.
On this incident alone, he made a civil war more or less a reality rather than soberly and responsibly dealing with events truthfully. And making the focus on learning from the EHRC report and implementing its recommendations.
A proper party manager who believes in truth, unity and procedure would accept that there was also a smear campaign that was hugely detrimental to not just dealing with antisemitism but the perception that anything was being done at all. Any truth and reconciliation needs to confront and accept that.
He screwed up. Corbyn wasn’t much of a leader because he didn’t believe in being authoritarian at all. Starter is a crap leader because he evidently does. | |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:41 - Nov 18 with 1094 views | SpruceMoose |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:29 - Nov 18 by itfcjoe |
In a seat Labour have held since it's inception in 1950......
By definition, every member of parliament is liked by their constituents |
So what's your point? Because some people who live elsewhere don't like her, her constituents should sit up and listen?
The people who vote for her clearly feel she represents them well. They'd be quite able to kick up enough stink if not.
This trope that she's some kind of clueless dullard who doesn't know up from down is really quite distasteful and not based on reality. Like I said above, there is another reason that she gets so much abuse and it's not job performance. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 16:47]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:47 - Nov 18 with 1081 views | giant_stow |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:41 - Nov 18 by SpruceMoose |
So what's your point? Because some people who live elsewhere don't like her, her constituents should sit up and listen?
The people who vote for her clearly feel she represents them well. They'd be quite able to kick up enough stink if not.
This trope that she's some kind of clueless dullard who doesn't know up from down is really quite distasteful and not based on reality. Like I said above, there is another reason that she gets so much abuse and it's not job performance. [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 16:47]
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To be clear, I was down-voting you pre edit. Agree with your edit - just think you were putting words in joes mouth in the first bit. | |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:48 - Nov 18 with 1077 views | Chutney |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:19 - Nov 18 by SpruceMoose |
It speaks!
I thought you were just a downvote bot!
This was the thing that triggered you into posting though? Someone crying about abusive posts being shown to post abusive comments themselves? Weird man. Very weird indeed.
But to answer your concern, in my line of work I'm pretty free to divvy up my time as I see fit. Quite the perk eh?! It's not like I have my hands full carrying bricks up a ladder, manning the conveyor belt at the Findus food factory or working in air traffic control! [Post edited 18 Nov 2020 15:24]
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Now who's triggered.... | | | |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:49 - Nov 18 with 1073 views | SpruceMoose |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:47 - Nov 18 by giant_stow |
To be clear, I was down-voting you pre edit. Agree with your edit - just think you were putting words in joes mouth in the first bit. |
Yeah when I re-read it I realised it came across as a pop at him directly and that wasn't my intention, hence the edit. My point was that it seems to be the people who have nothing to do with her who seem to have the greatest problem with her job performance. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:50 - Nov 18 with 1072 views | SpruceMoose |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:48 - Nov 18 by Chutney |
Now who's triggered.... |
Lolling at you posting here but ignoring my other post where I pulled your pants down!
Back under your rock Branston! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:52 - Nov 18 with 1061 views | Chutney |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:50 - Nov 18 by SpruceMoose |
Lolling at you posting here but ignoring my other post where I pulled your pants down!
Back under your rock Branston! |
Why so salty? You didn't pull anything down, petal.
P.s. Don't forget to invoice me for the rent I owe you for that head space. | | | |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:55 - Nov 18 with 1049 views | Darth_Koont |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 15:58 - Nov 18 by Herbivore |
What did Starmer put in his statement that was problematic? I can't quite suss it out from your posts. I don't know, Darth, I like you and there's a lot we agree on politically but your posting on this doesn't do much to allay the notion that Corbynites are rather cultish. You demonise Starmer at every turn whilst justifying everything Corbyn does.
The worst response possible to the EHRC report was to come out on the day it was published and imply that the issue had been exaggerated, and yet this is exactly what Corbyn did. If nothing else it is entirely bloody stupid on the most benign evaluation of it. One could argue it's something more than that and that actually it may not be Starmer who is a threat to unity in the Labour Party....... |
3rd attempt. I wrote a longer reply and lost it twice when the page unexpectedly refreshed.
Anyway, here goes. Here’s the section that stood out and which Starmer doubled down on in the subsequent interviews:
“And if — after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report, there are still those who think there’s no problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party. That it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack.
Then, frankly, you are part of the problem too. And you should be nowhere near the Labour Party either.”
The problem is that no-one was saying that there is “no problem” or that it was “all exaggerated”. And it’s an insulting dismissal used by the very same people who have been leading the attack. The vast majority of those who bring up the smear campaign accept there are real incidents of antisemitism and people who need to be dealt with. But the exaggeration itself was hugely political, factional, cynical and painful to the Jewish community at large. As well as the many people and ordinary Labour members who were caught up in it and were smeared personally.
An honest appraisal takes that into account. But there was also zero need to make this crude dismissal here at the time of the EHRC report. It was ridiculously provocative and again part of the very smear campaign people have been complaining about.
Should Corbin have risen to it? No. But easy to say when you’re not the one in the dock and now being asked to carry the can for an exaggerated crime that not even the EHRC report backed up.
If Starmer wants us to deny the evidence of our own eyes then he can f@ck right off. That’s shyte authoritarian and unprincipled politics and I see no reason why I would support that or in whose genuine interests it is to support it. | |
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| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:55 - Nov 18 with 1048 views | itfcjoe |
| Do we want a new Corbyn 15 pager today or just to add to yesterday's? on 16:35 - Nov 18 by Darth_Koont |
How is it clear? Starmer and the General Secretary immediately ignored the recommendations of the EHRC by stepping around procedure to suspend Corbin. And on what grounds?
He’s also said in that step and subsequently that members and CLP can’t talk about an antisemitism smear campaign or the Corbyn suspension. But he can.
On this incident alone, he made a civil war more or less a reality rather than soberly and responsibly dealing with events truthfully. And making the focus on learning from the EHRC report and implementing its recommendations.
A proper party manager who believes in truth, unity and procedure would accept that there was also a smear campaign that was hugely detrimental to not just dealing with antisemitism but the perception that anything was being done at all. Any truth and reconciliation needs to confront and accept that.
He screwed up. Corbyn wasn’t much of a leader because he didn’t believe in being authoritarian at all. Starter is a crap leader because he evidently does. |
Starmer didn’t suspend Corbyn for a start | |
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