| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:26 - Jan 29 with 543 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:15 - Jan 29 by Churchman |
This is in effect the imposition of a hard border. It leaves Eire and U.K. in a really difficult position not of their making and it’s going to be interesting to see what Biden’s take on it is, given how much of an interest he has in Ireland’s affairs.
When the EU stop any Pfizer vaccine coming to the U.K., will it not put Pfizer actually in breach of contract? Pfizer is an American company. How will that sit with them? |
If only someone could have foreseen that the Ireland/UK border might be a problem... |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:27 - Jan 29 with 537 views | m14_blue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:24 - Jan 29 by pointofblue |
I will say if we hadn't left already then this mess would have made it a certainty. I imagine we would have joined the French, Germans, Dutch and Italians in trying to purchase vaccines early - or even going it alone within the EU. If we were browbeaten by the Commission to join the overall approach, as the French et al were, and then this occured... |
I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say the whole thing could have unfolded completely differently if we hadn’t left. Brexit was a real sliding doors moment for everyone involved.
A hugely influential member, with fantastic scientific research, I suspect the whole continent would be in a much better place had Brexit not happened (although we perhaps wouldn’t be). |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:30 - Jan 29 with 527 views | jeera |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:19 - Jan 29 by Lord_Lucan |
I agree about the bragging thing but I was listening to James O Brien the other day and he was suggesting that any vaccine triumphalism was akin to celebrating deaths on our EU neighbours - but for the past year he has been holding up our death count and criticising it.
This is the problem with extremists -as Corporal Jones would say, "They don't like it up em Captain Mainwering" |
Why wouldn't anyone be angry at the way this has been handled until now?
That's not lauding the EU over us. That's holding our own to account.
The whole thing has been a mess and to hold up the vaccination relative 'success' doesn't whitewash that. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:33 - Jan 29 with 518 views | Moriarty |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 19:45 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
Since the Brexit vote I mean. Some on here have refused to accept the EU have any flaws at all.
And no i'm not enjoying this. I'd much rather there were vaccines for all. I know the EU are acting mainly out of desperation like the rest of the planet. |
When you target unidentified posters, you should be aware that not all of us who post on here are British and have no clarity on whether you’re targeting your comments at them. I’m an EU citizen but not of the sort you’ve referred to. At least I hope not.
It’s as obvious as day that there is a very different interpretation between AZ and the EU on the contract. It should also be apparent to you that it is quite likely that how this is being treated in the media is likely to be different in the U.K. and outside of it. There are two sides.
For what it’s worth, and in case it needs to be clarified, and in ease of your time, I was posting recently on how well respected the U.K. are in matters vaccine and how things should never become political. But that is what has happened. You’re now part of that. Contributing to that. The reports outside the U.K. are that AZ signed up to a certain delivery, got paid for that production and gave the EU assurances on delivery and did so taking account of their commitments to the U.K. who had a prior order. AZ on the other hand are saying it’s a production issue in Belgium and there is a prior contract with U.K.
Maybe a matter for those with appropriate legal expertise?
AZ, EU and U.K. need to resolve this immediately. Behind closed doors.
I don’t know the full details but there are no angels here. Fwiw, EU are wrong to retaliate.
From an Irish point of view, the AZ jab was a key part of our rollout and we’re down 300,000 jabs over the next few weeks. That’s obviously a set back. Hopefully it will be resolved. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:34 - Jan 29 with 520 views | Steve_M |
Amazing:
Total feck up and sense of panic from the Commission. Any government should pause for breath before taking drastic action, it’s a chance to avoid doing something so counter-productively stupid. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:34 - Jan 29 with 507 views | thebooks |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 19:52 - Jan 29 by Lord_Lucan |
Not publicly no, you are all just keeping your heads down.
I remember when there was an apparent ventilator crisis and some bloke in Tamworth had said he could provide 1000's of the things but the government wouldn't talk to him. The links to the story were flashing on here like an injured cock. When (the next day) it was shown that the bloke was a complete cretin it all went quiet.
This is a constant thing on here. Not sure if it's amusing or depressing really.
I'll mull it over. |
Yes, this is a problem when you get dragged into a culture war where EU = good and everything thing else = evil.
Not being a fully signed up member part of the EU sometimes brings benefits. Not having the Euro as our currency has probably been a good thing, for example. The EU has been a proponent of TINA and austerity for decades, which has IRONICALLY ENOUGH helped encourage nationalism.
Still, that’s not to say we’re not in a fücking state when you’ve got this bunch of swivel-eyed loons running things. |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:36 - Jan 29 with 504 views | pointofblue |
It looks like the EU didn't even bother telling the Irish Government that they were going to implement Article 16.
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:38 - Jan 29 with 493 views | pointofblue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:23 - Jan 29 by BlueBadger |
I'm not sure how being appalled by our catastropic response to this and disgusted by smug triumphalism of the likes of Farage over this monumental cock-up are mutually exclusive things.
We have no right in this country to be gloating about this given a) how utterly immature(at best) it is to be gloating about it given how badly we've performed at everything else. It's like making a cake by mixing in fresh turds and then claiming it's a success because you've iced it nicely.
The main thing this sorry episode is proof of, is that both parties would almost certainly have been better served by us staying in. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:32]
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On vaccines ONLY I disagree - we would have been stuck on 2.1% percent instead of in double figures as we would have no doubt been browbeaten into joining the joint effort which has seen delay after delay. The UK factories would have then had the same supply issues as those on the main continent. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:38 - Jan 29 with 489 views | J2BLUE |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:33 - Jan 29 by Moriarty |
When you target unidentified posters, you should be aware that not all of us who post on here are British and have no clarity on whether you’re targeting your comments at them. I’m an EU citizen but not of the sort you’ve referred to. At least I hope not.
It’s as obvious as day that there is a very different interpretation between AZ and the EU on the contract. It should also be apparent to you that it is quite likely that how this is being treated in the media is likely to be different in the U.K. and outside of it. There are two sides.
For what it’s worth, and in case it needs to be clarified, and in ease of your time, I was posting recently on how well respected the U.K. are in matters vaccine and how things should never become political. But that is what has happened. You’re now part of that. Contributing to that. The reports outside the U.K. are that AZ signed up to a certain delivery, got paid for that production and gave the EU assurances on delivery and did so taking account of their commitments to the U.K. who had a prior order. AZ on the other hand are saying it’s a production issue in Belgium and there is a prior contract with U.K.
Maybe a matter for those with appropriate legal expertise?
AZ, EU and U.K. need to resolve this immediately. Behind closed doors.
I don’t know the full details but there are no angels here. Fwiw, EU are wrong to retaliate.
From an Irish point of view, the AZ jab was a key part of our rollout and we’re down 300,000 jabs over the next few weeks. That’s obviously a set back. Hopefully it will be resolved. |
I am aware not everyone on here is British.
the reports outside the U.K. are that AZ signed up to a certain delivery, got paid for that production and gave the EU assurances on delivery and did so taking account of their commitments to the U.K. who had a prior order.
So the EU would have known that they would receive vaccine exports from the UK only once the UK order was filled?
From an Irish point of view, the AZ jab was a key part of our rollout and we’re down 300,000 jabs over the next few weeks. That’s obviously a set back. Hopefully it will be resolved.
I hope Ireland and rest of the EU get as many vaccines as possible as quickly as possible. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:39]
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:41 - Jan 29 with 480 views | J2BLUE |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:34 - Jan 29 by Steve_M |
Amazing:
Total feck up and sense of panic from the Commission. Any government should pause for breath before taking drastic action, it’s a chance to avoid doing something so counter-productively stupid. |
They are claiming that 95% of the redactions were at AZ's request so many this was tactical? | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:41 - Jan 29 with 480 views | Churchman |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:22 - Jan 29 by jeera |
They seem to be suggesting we are capable of some skullduggery whilst showing a bit of that themselves.
As you say, who owns those vaccines? If payment is yet to be made then you'd assume the manufacturers.
There are 3 factories making the AstraZeneca here already and only one in the Netherlands, so are quantities of that much a concern?
So this is all down to the Pfizer and/or others? |
The concern is for the elderly and most vulnerable that have had only one vaccination. What’s the impact of one, how long does it last and can people be acclimated with another vaccine?
Then there’s the impact on the companies themselves. I feel sorry for AstraZeneca as they are not making a profit on the vaccine while the EU tries to trash them. Pfizer are making a stocking profit and remain untouched by their failure to supply vaccine because they are American and they produce in the EU.
I wonder if the AstraZeneca and Pfizer approvals and production problems were reversed whether the abuse heaped on AZ would be heaped on Pfizer? |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:41 - Jan 29 with 473 views | pointofblue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:27 - Jan 29 by m14_blue |
I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say the whole thing could have unfolded completely differently if we hadn’t left. Brexit was a real sliding doors moment for everyone involved.
A hugely influential member, with fantastic scientific research, I suspect the whole continent would be in a much better place had Brexit not happened (although we perhaps wouldn’t be). |
I suppose we were always the push back, weren't we? I believe a Danish or Dutch politican said they regretted us leaving because we wouldn't take what the Commission said at face value and instead question whether it was the best route to take.
That or we would have ignored the EU and just bought a load anyway. Imagine this all happening whilst we were still IN the EU if so. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:44 - Jan 29 with 462 views | J2BLUE |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:41 - Jan 29 by pointofblue |
I suppose we were always the push back, weren't we? I believe a Danish or Dutch politican said they regretted us leaving because we wouldn't take what the Commission said at face value and instead question whether it was the best route to take.
That or we would have ignored the EU and just bought a load anyway. Imagine this all happening whilst we were still IN the EU if so. |
But would we? The Germans and a few others tried that and the EU took over. There seems to be an unwillingness to accept reality among some of the more hardcore EU fans. Yes there was the option but when countries tried to take it they were told not to go against the EU and the EU took over.
It's like the people who say they wanted to 'remain and reform' despite efforts to reform being pretty much dismissed. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:47 - Jan 29 with 452 views | pointofblue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:44 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
But would we? The Germans and a few others tried that and the EU took over. There seems to be an unwillingness to accept reality among some of the more hardcore EU fans. Yes there was the option but when countries tried to take it they were told not to go against the EU and the EU took over.
It's like the people who say they wanted to 'remain and reform' despite efforts to reform being pretty much dismissed. |
As I said in the second paragraph I think we may have signed our own deals and dared the EU to sue us over doing so. We were pretty independent even within the bloc. But, as per my previous post, if the EU had browbeaten us in the way they managed to get the French et al to back down and then this happened (providing our prescene in the bloc didn't change a thing in terms of negoitations and contracts) then Brexit would have become an almost certainty. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:47 - Jan 29 with 448 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:30 - Jan 29 by jeera |
Why wouldn't anyone be angry at the way this has been handled until now?
That's not lauding the EU over us. That's holding our own to account.
The whole thing has been a mess and to hold up the vaccination relative 'success' doesn't whitewash that. |
Posted in error before I had finished [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:56]
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:49 - Jan 29 with 449 views | giant_stow |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:36 - Jan 29 by pointofblue |
It looks like the EU didn't even bother telling the Irish Government that they were going to implement Article 16.
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If true that's an incredible snub. I wonder if we can make up Ireland's shortfall? We want to be connected again ASAP innit? |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:49 - Jan 29 with 442 views | jeera |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:41 - Jan 29 by Churchman |
The concern is for the elderly and most vulnerable that have had only one vaccination. What’s the impact of one, how long does it last and can people be acclimated with another vaccine?
Then there’s the impact on the companies themselves. I feel sorry for AstraZeneca as they are not making a profit on the vaccine while the EU tries to trash them. Pfizer are making a stocking profit and remain untouched by their failure to supply vaccine because they are American and they produce in the EU.
I wonder if the AstraZeneca and Pfizer approvals and production problems were reversed whether the abuse heaped on AZ would be heaped on Pfizer? |
The priority absolutely has to be getting the 2nd dose to those who can be covered for the long-term now, otherwise there's a risk of a far bigger waste if a number of those doses already used become no longer relevant.
That has to be the starting point for any negotiation regarding supplies.
It seems unrealistic assurances were made all round though, and yes, seeing the initial figures cut by so much was going to spark alarm.
Completely agree with those making the point that the EU dragged their heels and instead of paying the price, want to make the UK suffer too.
These are all lives though, and the negotiations should be centered around the most vulnerable regardless of where they live.
Another problem with that now of course, is that some countries; i.e. Germany, have opted to approach their programme from the opposite end to us regarding age groups etc, so it's not even compatible across the board. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:49 - Jan 29 with 438 views | Churchman |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:44 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
But would we? The Germans and a few others tried that and the EU took over. There seems to be an unwillingness to accept reality among some of the more hardcore EU fans. Yes there was the option but when countries tried to take it they were told not to go against the EU and the EU took over.
It's like the people who say they wanted to 'remain and reform' despite efforts to reform being pretty much dismissed. |
But Germany still went and bought £30m vaccines separately. The excuse was that they’d be delivered after the EU allocations. Personally, I think they’ll have their hands on that allocation before the Dutch border guards have finished their sandwiches. I would in their lederhosen. | | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:50 - Jan 29 with 440 views | pointofblue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:49 - Jan 29 by giant_stow |
If true that's an incredible snub. I wonder if we can make up Ireland's shortfall? We want to be connected again ASAP innit? |
Shortfall of what, the vaccine? That would really set us up on collision course with the EU! | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:52 - Jan 29 with 425 views | J2BLUE |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:49 - Jan 29 by Churchman |
But Germany still went and bought £30m vaccines separately. The excuse was that they’d be delivered after the EU allocations. Personally, I think they’ll have their hands on that allocation before the Dutch border guards have finished their sandwiches. I would in their lederhosen. |
They did, but if those vaccines are available they'll go to the EU surely? I can't see how Germany can jump ahead of the EU? | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:55 - Jan 29 with 415 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:30 - Jan 29 by jeera |
Why wouldn't anyone be angry at the way this has been handled until now?
That's not lauding the EU over us. That's holding our own to account.
The whole thing has been a mess and to hold up the vaccination relative 'success' doesn't whitewash that. |
I don't disagree that it's been a bit of a mess but I will say right now from my heart, even if Corbyn, Abbot or Blairv had been in charge of this I wouldn't have criticised them. This whole Covid thing is off the scale, let's be honest, we never thought it could happen. I remember back in last Feb I was at a trade fair with RKD with an Italian and a Chinese contact and even then we were hanging about thinking it would come to nothing.
Not sure I can think of another country like UK where the virus could spread out of control, if Corona could have picked a country to expand then we would be top of the pops.
So what have we done wrong? Well we have plainly done a lot wrong, I think that''s obvious. I think we should have closed the borders, to me that's the one thing - however we are a massive global transformation hub. One of, if not the biggest in the world.
Forgetting all that I will say (at the risk of getting flamed) that I think the death count worldwide is feck all. Imagine if Ebola or the like went nuts?
I was reading the other day that up to Christmas the amount of people that had died who weren't already in a sticky situation was about 390?
Also - I'm actually as much (if not more concerned) about the 60m people who are getting lockdown fever, also the women who are getting abused by their abusive husbands - not to mention the kids! Whilst we are speaking some unforts are getting boiling water poured over them for fun - right now! | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:57 - Jan 29 with 405 views | EdwardStone |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:13 - Jan 29 by jeera |
Some bloke in Tamworth?
The only story I can ever connect with Tamworth is those two pigs that once escaped and were all over the news for days. The 'Tamworth Two'.
Looking back, it must have been particularly quiet on the news front. |
The pigs escaped in Malmesbury, Wilts
They were Tamworth breed of pigs, ginger haired with a bad attitude |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:57 - Jan 29 with 406 views | giant_stow |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:50 - Jan 29 by pointofblue |
Shortfall of what, the vaccine? That would really set us up on collision course with the EU! |
Someone said above that Ireland will be down by 300,000 az doses - it would be a nice act of friendship. We both seem to have been wronged on the face of it.
Or I'm being a child. Possible. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:57 - Jan 29 with 401 views | Moriarty |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:38 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
I am aware not everyone on here is British.
the reports outside the U.K. are that AZ signed up to a certain delivery, got paid for that production and gave the EU assurances on delivery and did so taking account of their commitments to the U.K. who had a prior order.
So the EU would have known that they would receive vaccine exports from the UK only once the UK order was filled?
From an Irish point of view, the AZ jab was a key part of our rollout and we’re down 300,000 jabs over the next few weeks. That’s obviously a set back. Hopefully it will be resolved.
I hope Ireland and rest of the EU get as many vaccines as possible as quickly as possible. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:39]
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As I understand it, the EU’s position is that AZ factored in their commitments to the U.K. when making their commitments to EU.
As you haven’t done so, could you clarify if you cast me as one of those EU types you referred to?
I was labelled a brexiteer yesterday (even though I’m not British) for advocating Dyer. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:58 - Jan 29 with 396 views | jeera |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:47 - Jan 29 by Lord_Lucan |
Posted in error before I had finished [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:56]
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The anger for many Lucers, has come from much of the dishonesty. And it has been rife.
As you say, maybe a group of different people in charge would have messed up. Who knows?
I also agree fully about it being almost to compare us with many other nations. I remember one report mid summer saying that some 3,000 points of initial entry had been potentially identified. That's mad and couldn't happen somewhere like NZ in a million scenarios. But can still be argued more should have been done sooner.
And looking even as recent as today at the government's determination to fight legal requests to information regarding, let's face it, cronyism and wastage on an inexcusable scale, is indicative of the approach that's been taken from day one.
And I would absolutely feel the same way regardless of who it was I felt was screwing us over. This is about having basic respect for your own citizens you know?
Many feel completely let down and entirely mugged off to boot. | |
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