| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:59 - Jan 29 with 1017 views | pointofblue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:41 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
They are claiming that 95% of the redactions were at AZ's request so many this was tactical? |
Except a non redacted part of the contract states: "The Receiving Party shall treat all Confidential Information as secret and confidential and shall not use, copy of disclose to any third party any Confidential Information of the Disclosing Party." |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:59 - Jan 29 with 1016 views | Churchman |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:49 - Jan 29 by giant_stow |
If true that's an incredible snub. I wonder if we can make up Ireland's shortfall? We want to be connected again ASAP innit? |
Given common transit arrangements (CTA) predate the EU, how about the U.K. supplies Ireland’s shortfall to ensure there is no risk to common travel within the British Isles? After the most vulnerable are sorted, of course.
Just a cheeky thought. |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:01 - Jan 29 with 1007 views | thebooks |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:55 - Jan 29 by Lord_Lucan |
I don't disagree that it's been a bit of a mess but I will say right now from my heart, even if Corbyn, Abbot or Blairv had been in charge of this I wouldn't have criticised them. This whole Covid thing is off the scale, let's be honest, we never thought it could happen. I remember back in last Feb I was at a trade fair with RKD with an Italian and a Chinese contact and even then we were hanging about thinking it would come to nothing.
Not sure I can think of another country like UK where the virus could spread out of control, if Corona could have picked a country to expand then we would be top of the pops.
So what have we done wrong? Well we have plainly done a lot wrong, I think that''s obvious. I think we should have closed the borders, to me that's the one thing - however we are a massive global transformation hub. One of, if not the biggest in the world.
Forgetting all that I will say (at the risk of getting flamed) that I think the death count worldwide is feck all. Imagine if Ebola or the like went nuts?
I was reading the other day that up to Christmas the amount of people that had died who weren't already in a sticky situation was about 390?
Also - I'm actually as much (if not more concerned) about the 60m people who are getting lockdown fever, also the women who are getting abused by their abusive husbands - not to mention the kids! Whilst we are speaking some unforts are getting boiling water poured over them for fun - right now! |
“I was reading the other day that up to Christmas the amount of people that had died who weren't already in a sticky situation was about 390?”
Eh? |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:04 - Jan 29 with 988 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:33 - Jan 29 by Moriarty |
When you target unidentified posters, you should be aware that not all of us who post on here are British and have no clarity on whether you’re targeting your comments at them. I’m an EU citizen but not of the sort you’ve referred to. At least I hope not.
It’s as obvious as day that there is a very different interpretation between AZ and the EU on the contract. It should also be apparent to you that it is quite likely that how this is being treated in the media is likely to be different in the U.K. and outside of it. There are two sides.
For what it’s worth, and in case it needs to be clarified, and in ease of your time, I was posting recently on how well respected the U.K. are in matters vaccine and how things should never become political. But that is what has happened. You’re now part of that. Contributing to that. The reports outside the U.K. are that AZ signed up to a certain delivery, got paid for that production and gave the EU assurances on delivery and did so taking account of their commitments to the U.K. who had a prior order. AZ on the other hand are saying it’s a production issue in Belgium and there is a prior contract with U.K.
Maybe a matter for those with appropriate legal expertise?
AZ, EU and U.K. need to resolve this immediately. Behind closed doors.
I don’t know the full details but there are no angels here. Fwiw, EU are wrong to retaliate.
From an Irish point of view, the AZ jab was a key part of our rollout and we’re down 300,000 jabs over the next few weeks. That’s obviously a set back. Hopefully it will be resolved. |
What would the EU do if the UK decided to give the ROI a couple of million vaccines to help out?
Could they block it? |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:08 - Jan 29 with 978 views | J2BLUE |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:57 - Jan 29 by Moriarty |
As I understand it, the EU’s position is that AZ factored in their commitments to the U.K. when making their commitments to EU.
As you haven’t done so, could you clarify if you cast me as one of those EU types you referred to?
I was labelled a brexiteer yesterday (even though I’m not British) for advocating Dyer. |
I agree with your first sentence but if that is the case then the EU are basically saying you can't meet our order so now you must breach your contract with the UK in order to supply us. Would you agree with that?
Apologies for not answering the other point. I absolutely was not talking about you. I sympathise with Ireland's position and to be honest I would quite like to see the UK gift Ireland 300,000 vaccines if we can do so. I'm under the impression we've got quite a lot in the pipline and it would be good if we could have one small area of normality between our two countries. I think most Brits think of the Irish as our close friends. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:12 - Jan 29 with 959 views | pointofblue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:04 - Jan 29 by GlasgowBlue |
What would the EU do if the UK decided to give the ROI a couple of million vaccines to help out?
Could they block it? |
They wouldn't block it but would probably demand that Ireland shared the 'donation' throughout the EU. I also sense there would be a very strong protest towards the UK, possibly including some hidden, currently unreported, clause in the Brexit deal coming into play.
EDIT: Just seen Moriarty's answer - that's proven me wrong! They seriously blocked it??? [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 21:20]
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:13 - Jan 29 with 959 views | Freddies_Ears |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 19:51 - Jan 29 by DanTheMan |
Indeed, the EU are behaving disgracefully here. I understand they are probably panicked but this isn't the right resolution. |
Oddly under-reported is that UK started this mini and pathetic trade war by slapping expert bans on 100 products that are used to fight Covid, back in December. So there's no moral high ground for UK here. | | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:14 - Jan 29 with 953 views | Moriarty |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:04 - Jan 29 by GlasgowBlue |
What would the EU do if the UK decided to give the ROI a couple of million vaccines to help out?
Could they block it? |
You’re on the ball. Good question.
It was reported here in the last few days that we tried to get an advance from our U.K. friends so we’d be ready to roll once today’s approval came through. The EU blocked it. It prompted debate on whether we should look to go solo but we’re a small country and it’s probably in our best interests to go along with the EU power bloc. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:15 - Jan 29 with 938 views | J2BLUE |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:14 - Jan 29 by Moriarty |
You’re on the ball. Good question.
It was reported here in the last few days that we tried to get an advance from our U.K. friends so we’d be ready to roll once today’s approval came through. The EU blocked it. It prompted debate on whether we should look to go solo but we’re a small country and it’s probably in our best interests to go along with the EU power bloc. |
The EU blocked it?!?!? Irish lives will be lost because the EU wanted to save face? | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:20 - Jan 29 with 917 views | giant_stow |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:13 - Jan 29 by Freddies_Ears |
Oddly under-reported is that UK started this mini and pathetic trade war by slapping expert bans on 100 products that are used to fight Covid, back in December. So there's no moral high ground for UK here. |
Looks like a red herring to me. Only a quick Google in fairness.
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-medicine-vaccine-export-restricti |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:22 - Jan 29 with 903 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:14 - Jan 29 by Moriarty |
You’re on the ball. Good question.
It was reported here in the last few days that we tried to get an advance from our U.K. friends so we’d be ready to roll once today’s approval came through. The EU blocked it. It prompted debate on whether we should look to go solo but we’re a small country and it’s probably in our best interests to go along with the EU power bloc. |
That’s incredible.
I hope you guys get sorted and don’t have to cancel vaccinations as they have in Paris and Madrid. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:23 - Jan 29 with 908 views | pointofblue |
Even Michael Barnier's UK Task Force didn't know Article 16 was going to be invoked! But journalists in Ireland are now saying the Commission are looking for a resolution - almost like someone enacted the Article without realising the full consequences of doing so. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:33 - Jan 29 with 875 views | Moriarty |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:08 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
I agree with your first sentence but if that is the case then the EU are basically saying you can't meet our order so now you must breach your contract with the UK in order to supply us. Would you agree with that?
Apologies for not answering the other point. I absolutely was not talking about you. I sympathise with Ireland's position and to be honest I would quite like to see the UK gift Ireland 300,000 vaccines if we can do so. I'm under the impression we've got quite a lot in the pipline and it would be good if we could have one small area of normality between our two countries. I think most Brits think of the Irish as our close friends. |
As I understand it, that’s the issue - that AZ can’t supply the required amount to both but has elected to apply all of the shortfall to the EU. It’s for the lawyers, but I’m not sure if as a matter of law, the timing of the contracts is the determinative factor. Both sides are entrenched.
The EU are saying they have paid to facilitate the production and supply and they now have a duty to their citizens. I think the way they have sought to do that, by blocking exports of the vaccine, is wrong, very wrong.
The U.K. have managed their vaccine roll out much more effectively and efficiently than the EU. It could be a factor as it will mean the U.K. economy will recover quicker. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:35 - Jan 29 with 868 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:14 - Jan 29 by Moriarty |
You’re on the ball. Good question.
It was reported here in the last few days that we tried to get an advance from our U.K. friends so we’d be ready to roll once today’s approval came through. The EU blocked it. It prompted debate on whether we should look to go solo but we’re a small country and it’s probably in our best interests to go along with the EU power bloc. |
Blood hell, that's not good. You're doing pretty well relatively too; one of the best vaccination rates of all EU countries.
If it's any consolation the Welsh situation is showing that things move fairly fast. A couple of weeks ago we were a laughing stock in the UK and now rates are catching up with the UK average. What does this all mean in real terms? Not a lot.
For example, my 82 yr old dad's been grumbling for a couple of weeks because he hadn't got his vaccine letter even though 70 yr olds he knows in England were getting their jab. But he's not gone anywhere and is taking care, and then got a call out of the blue and had his first dose vaccine today. As long as people are adhering to the measures (as they should be) a week or three is neither here nor there. We've been doing this for a year already after all.
And as far as these league tables go, it's largely for mutual mastrubation prurposes on the internet and for daft populist governments to crow over. Yet we're not even half way through the first half yet. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:43 - Jan 29 with 838 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:59 - Jan 29 by pointofblue |
Except a non redacted part of the contract states: "The Receiving Party shall treat all Confidential Information as secret and confidential and shall not use, copy of disclose to any third party any Confidential Information of the Disclosing Party." |
Was about to post similar - breaching the contract by revealing confidential information on the party you’re trying to persuade is a rather bold tactic! |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:46 - Jan 29 with 829 views | Moriarty |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:35 - Jan 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Blood hell, that's not good. You're doing pretty well relatively too; one of the best vaccination rates of all EU countries.
If it's any consolation the Welsh situation is showing that things move fairly fast. A couple of weeks ago we were a laughing stock in the UK and now rates are catching up with the UK average. What does this all mean in real terms? Not a lot.
For example, my 82 yr old dad's been grumbling for a couple of weeks because he hadn't got his vaccine letter even though 70 yr olds he knows in England were getting their jab. But he's not gone anywhere and is taking care, and then got a call out of the blue and had his first dose vaccine today. As long as people are adhering to the measures (as they should be) a week or three is neither here nor there. We've been doing this for a year already after all.
And as far as these league tables go, it's largely for mutual mastrubation prurposes on the internet and for daft populist governments to crow over. Yet we're not even half way through the first half yet. |
I hope all goes well for your Dad, and indeed all family and friends of everyone on here.
We have over 5,000 GPs and GP practice nurses here and we could get all done here fairly quickly. If they alone did 10 a day, 6 days a week, that’s over 300k a week just from GP practices. We’ve a population of just under 5M.
We’ve done well with what we have. It’s a supply issue so the sooner we get supplied, the better! | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:48 - Jan 29 with 827 views | jeera |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:57 - Jan 29 by EdwardStone |
The pigs escaped in Malmesbury, Wilts
They were Tamworth breed of pigs, ginger haired with a bad attitude |
Oh yeah.
I'd completely forgotten all that.
So Tamworth itself doesn't even have that claim to fame. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:53 - Jan 29 with 819 views | BloomBlue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:18 - Jan 29 by Swansea_Blue |
There are several threads pointing out the EU’s having a ‘mare. So it’s bollox.
Irrespective of who’s “fault” it is, this wouldn’t have happened without Brexit. And that’s a fact. That doesn’t mean the EU aren’t being aggressively protectionist over this of course, but nuance is a lost art. |
Technically not correct. If the UK was in the EU we could still have done deals on vaccines independently of the EU program as Germany has done. The AZ supply chain would still have suffered the same delays but the irony is the EU can stop exports to the UK now of the pfizer vaccine to help with their shortfall as we're outside of EU but if we had been in the EU they couldn't stop the supply even if we had independent deals. So technically in this situation they would have been in a worse situation if the UK was in the EU |  | | |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:53 - Jan 29 with 819 views | Moriarty |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:15 - Jan 29 by J2BLUE |
The EU blocked it?!?!? Irish lives will be lost because the EU wanted to save face? |
The other side of the coin is whether we’d be getting what will eventually come without the EU. If we go solo, we simply don’t have the clout to get the number of vaccines that we’ll otherwise get.
So the bigger picture is that it’s in our interests to bite our lip and play the rules. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:54 - Jan 29 with 816 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 19:50 - Jan 29 by m14_blue |
You’re better than that post J2.
There are precious few, if any, EU evangelists on here and I’m not sure anyone has defended them over this fiasco. |
I understand where J2 is coming from.
From the morning the referendum result was announced, a small group of promEU posters have framed every argument as the UK government always being in the wrong and the EU always being in the right.
During the negotiations there were a small group of posters who appeared to want the UK to fail and the EU to get the upper hand, so to speak.
Every bit of bad news regarding Brexit was posted with relish. Any good news was dismissed. I got the feeling that there were some “remainers” on here who were praying the next few years would turn out badly for the country.
When I suggested a few moths ago that it would be in everyone’s interest for both sides to compromise in order to reach an amicable settlement, the pro EU consensus in here was why should the EU compromise in anything? We were the bad guys for leaving their club.
Now, just a few weeks after concluding the deal everyone is asking for compromise. It’s a funny old world. | |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:56 - Jan 29 with 807 views | footers |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:54 - Jan 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I understand where J2 is coming from.
From the morning the referendum result was announced, a small group of promEU posters have framed every argument as the UK government always being in the wrong and the EU always being in the right.
During the negotiations there were a small group of posters who appeared to want the UK to fail and the EU to get the upper hand, so to speak.
Every bit of bad news regarding Brexit was posted with relish. Any good news was dismissed. I got the feeling that there were some “remainers” on here who were praying the next few years would turn out badly for the country.
When I suggested a few moths ago that it would be in everyone’s interest for both sides to compromise in order to reach an amicable settlement, the pro EU consensus in here was why should the EU compromise in anything? We were the bad guys for leaving their club.
Now, just a few weeks after concluding the deal everyone is asking for compromise. It’s a funny old world. |
You do a great job of hiding being a Tory Brexiteer, you really do. So hard to tell. |  |
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 22:03 - Jan 29 with 776 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 21:56 - Jan 29 by footers |
You do a great job of hiding being a Tory Brexiteer, you really do. So hard to tell. |
Blimey. Your finger must have been hovering over the keyboard for hours waiting for me to post.
Funny that you think it’s only a “Tory” trait when somebody wants what’s best for their own country.
Invited Brexit. I regret that, as I think let the negatives outweigh the positives. When it really should have been the other way around.
Eurosceptisim has featured very prominently in the Tory media for decades and I’m happy to admit that it seeped into my thinking. I was wrong. I would prefer we were still in the EU.
But at least I can now see things form both sides and, unlike certain people, will not slavishly follow one side. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 22:04]
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| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 22:04 - Jan 29 with 772 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The EU introduces controls to vaccines to Northern Ireland on 20:12 - Jan 29 by m14_blue |
It’s an example of the EU acting appallingly and, after 4 years of relentlessly watching Project Fear become Project Reality and all of the leading Brexiteers exposed as lying charlatans, many Brexit supporters are understandably desperate to cling to anything to save face.
I have no problem whatsoever in saying the UK government seems to have played an absolute blinder with vaccines and the EU has been caught out and are trying to bully their way out of it.
However, the only people acting with equally little class are the gloating morons over here. Whether it’s Hancock and Boris bragging incessantly about how we’ve done more jabs than the rest of Europe combined or people on here enjoying the fact that liberals are upset, even if the collateral damage is European lives.
The triumphalism is particularly weird when you consider that the vaccine is just one (very important) part of the battle to save lives from the pandemic. Since we’re allowing international comparisons again now, it seems appropriate to point out that we’ve had nearly 50,000 (FIFTY THOUSAND!!) more deaths than the Germans who we’re so enjoying lauding it over. [Post edited 29 Jan 2021 20:13]
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Nope, the fundamentally depressing thing here is that 'liberals' are so keen to hang their coats on the EU hook. Ffs, people on here have even tried to claim membership as some sort of act of the Internationale spirit! F#kkin' owned! |  |
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