| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker 09:33 - Feb 15 with 7915 views | StokieBlue |
Obviously there is the CRG who seem to be getting a lot of interview time on the BBC who are pushing for things to be opened up whilst the government pushes back and says it won't commit to dates until it sees actual evidence and numbers.
On top of that the hospitality sector seems to be making a concerted push to get opened up quicker. The reasons are of course clear and in many cases perfectly reasonable but there is an awful lot of pressure being applied:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56068252
Even calls to run "Eat out to help out" again:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56060962
The government seem to be sticking firm to the opening of schools first, see how that goes and then look to open up other things from Easter (outside, although Martin is pushing for them to be open inside as well).
I think the debate is going to get quite messy and heated over the next 6 weeks or so given both positions have some valid points.
SB |  | | |  |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:37 - Feb 15 with 1472 views | hatch |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:15 - Feb 15 by StokieBlue |
It's a total unknown so I would say it's not something you should worry too much about.
"I can't get my hopes up as I have no faith we have the ability to contain these variants that cannot be vaccinated against (allegedly - I appreciate there are still studies). All it takes is one of these variants to take hold and even with 30-40% effectiveness of a vaccine that will still take us back 50 steps despite the vaccine steps forward?"
This isn't really correct. Whilst the efficacy will be reduced what is important is the protection against severe C19 and hospitalisation. As long as they provide protection for severe C19 then people can get by suffering mild and moderate C19 and being in bed for a few days. All that is needed is enough protection to stop severe covid and hospitalisations until the tweaked vaccines are available which would then improve the efficacy again.
SB |
Appreciate the comments - I didn't realise that lower efficacy still prevented hospitalisation.
So the govt are basically looking to open up when the vast majority of the population can only be 'sick' or bed-bound but not killed and new variant or not we have some degree of confidence that the existing vaccines will achieve this. |  | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:41 - Feb 15 with 1456 views | StokieBlue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:37 - Feb 15 by hatch |
Appreciate the comments - I didn't realise that lower efficacy still prevented hospitalisation.
So the govt are basically looking to open up when the vast majority of the population can only be 'sick' or bed-bound but not killed and new variant or not we have some degree of confidence that the existing vaccines will achieve this. |
We don't know that the lower efficacy will stop hospitalisations but there are studies underway and the developers of the vaccines are hopeful. I wouldn't worry much about it until there is more information.
Your last paragraph is pretty much the strategy.
SB | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:50 - Feb 15 with 1448 views | Plums |
This put it perfectly for me:
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:08 - Feb 15 with 1423 views | SuffolkPOSH |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 10:18 - Feb 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Would be nice to get school staff vaccinated before getting them back. |
Which group do you push down the list to allow teachers to get vaccines as a priority ??? |  | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:10 - Feb 15 with 1420 views | StokieBlue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:08 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
Which group do you push down the list to allow teachers to get vaccines as a priority ??? |
There are ~500,000 teachers in the UK. Given the numbers being vaccinated at the moment that's not a huge amount of people to vaccinate in order to give them some protection whilst doing their jobs.
If schools are going to be opened then teachers should be vaccinated.
SB | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:12 - Feb 15 with 1411 views | factual_blue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 10:54 - Feb 15 by footers |
It's almost like the CRG have learnt nothing from last time. But agreed, we're at a crucial point now and just need to wait it out patiently so that we can come out of lockdown fully once and for all.
There's a barmaid who hasn't seen my face in over a year at this point and I'm sure she's been worried about me. |
They aren't actually capable of learning anything. |  |
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:15 - Feb 15 with 1391 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:08 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
Which group do you push down the list to allow teachers to get vaccines as a priority ??? |
Which groups are on the priority list beyond the over 50s?
The decision on opening schools to all students should be once the staff have been done. Not some imaginary group who are already on an unpublished list should be shifted down the list to give us some priority. |  |
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:19 - Feb 15 with 1379 views | factual_blue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:14 - Feb 15 by footers |
She'll be a proper old battleaxe by the time I see her again, I fear.
But yes, Swanners! They're called 'pubs' apparently. Can't wait for the work gang's resumption of the Friday lunchtime pints and moaning sessions soon!
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Most pubs won't survive. | |
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:19 - Feb 15 with 1376 views | SuffolkPOSH |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:10 - Feb 15 by StokieBlue |
There are ~500,000 teachers in the UK. Given the numbers being vaccinated at the moment that's not a huge amount of people to vaccinate in order to give them some protection whilst doing their jobs.
If schools are going to be opened then teachers should be vaccinated.
SB |
That is still 500,000 vulnerable people pushed down the list. And where do you stop ???, I've seen police chiefs arguing all police should get the vaccine immediately. Council workers have jumped the queue justifying their action because they need to be at work. What about supermarket staff ???.
Personally I thnk the strategy is correct & lets get the first 9 groups vaccinated who represent 99% of those who have died from COVID-19. Then you can start priotising based on probability of exposure. | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:24 - Feb 15 with 1352 views | footers |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:19 - Feb 15 by factual_blue |
Most pubs won't survive. |
Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine today? |  |
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:26 - Feb 15 with 1345 views | StokieBlue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:19 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
That is still 500,000 vulnerable people pushed down the list. And where do you stop ???, I've seen police chiefs arguing all police should get the vaccine immediately. Council workers have jumped the queue justifying their action because they need to be at work. What about supermarket staff ???.
Personally I thnk the strategy is correct & lets get the first 9 groups vaccinated who represent 99% of those who have died from COVID-19. Then you can start priotising based on probability of exposure. |
Your argument is essentially saying that teachers should accept the risk of teaching varied classes of 30+ potential vectors. Why should they accept that risk? Would you accept that risk?
Vaccinating 500,000 people isn't really "pushing people down the list", it's delaying their vaccinations by a couple of days at most.
Are you in one of those first 9 groups?
SB | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:28 - Feb 15 with 1333 views | SuffolkPOSH |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:15 - Feb 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Which groups are on the priority list beyond the over 50s?
The decision on opening schools to all students should be once the staff have been done. Not some imaginary group who are already on an unpublished list should be shifted down the list to give us some priority. |
Many in groups 6, 7, 8 & 9 have yet to receive the vaccine.
Imaginary group ???
Let's start vaccinating people based on risk of exposure rather than risk of mortality.  | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:36 - Feb 15 with 1312 views | SuffolkPOSH |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:26 - Feb 15 by StokieBlue |
Your argument is essentially saying that teachers should accept the risk of teaching varied classes of 30+ potential vectors. Why should they accept that risk? Would you accept that risk?
Vaccinating 500,000 people isn't really "pushing people down the list", it's delaying their vaccinations by a couple of days at most.
Are you in one of those first 9 groups?
SB |
Essentially my arguement is that the most at risk of death (99%) should be vaccinated first. What a repugnant stance.
I'm not forcing teachers to work. If they object than they are free to express that, maybe even refuse to work. That is for them as individuals to decide.
So you are essentially saying, young healthy teachers should get the vaccine ahead of those who have a greater mortality risk. And is it just teachers you think should be pushed up the list, what about the police, supermarket workers, etc, etc. | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:37 - Feb 15 with 1308 views | factual_blue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:24 - Feb 15 by footers |
Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine today? |
I'm managing your expectations. | |
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:42 - Feb 15 with 1293 views | StokieBlue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:36 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
Essentially my arguement is that the most at risk of death (99%) should be vaccinated first. What a repugnant stance.
I'm not forcing teachers to work. If they object than they are free to express that, maybe even refuse to work. That is for them as individuals to decide.
So you are essentially saying, young healthy teachers should get the vaccine ahead of those who have a greater mortality risk. And is it just teachers you think should be pushed up the list, what about the police, supermarket workers, etc, etc. |
None of the other groups you have stated will be stuck in a single room with 30+ vectors for an entire day. They are either outside for the majority of their work or people are passing by quickly. Prolonged exposure within an indoor environment is the most likely way to catch C19.
You're not really taking any of my points onboard, just repeating your own. Vaccinating the teachers won't stop the vaccinations of those other groups, it will delay them for a very small amount of time, days probably.
If the schools are going to be opened then surely the teachers should be protected? What would you do if you were forced to work unvaccinated in a room with 30+ possible vectors everyday?
Just because teachers are possibly younger (although there are many teachers 40+ who could be at risk) that doesn't mean that some don't have unknown underlying conditions or might get long Covid. You are posting as if delaying the vaccination for a few days for some groups will mean they will get Covid. This is highly unlikely given everyone is supposed to be locked down at the moment, however teachers may be forced to work even though there is a lockdown.
SB [Post edited 15 Feb 2021 13:06]
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:08 - Feb 15 with 1247 views | Vaughan8 |
I think we can safely say that the eat out to help out must have helped spread the virus so my own personal view is these placs should remain shut for a while more.
However, I don't work in those industries so I suppose its easy for me to say. Furlough isn't ideal for the employees, but least its 80%?
The actual owners though, presuming they are Limited companies with the min wages with dividends are going to find it hard.
Difficult desicions need to be made. |  | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:22 - Feb 15 with 1235 views | SuffolkPOSH |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 12:42 - Feb 15 by StokieBlue |
None of the other groups you have stated will be stuck in a single room with 30+ vectors for an entire day. They are either outside for the majority of their work or people are passing by quickly. Prolonged exposure within an indoor environment is the most likely way to catch C19.
You're not really taking any of my points onboard, just repeating your own. Vaccinating the teachers won't stop the vaccinations of those other groups, it will delay them for a very small amount of time, days probably.
If the schools are going to be opened then surely the teachers should be protected? What would you do if you were forced to work unvaccinated in a room with 30+ possible vectors everyday?
Just because teachers are possibly younger (although there are many teachers 40+ who could be at risk) that doesn't mean that some don't have unknown underlying conditions or might get long Covid. You are posting as if delaying the vaccination for a few days for some groups will mean they will get Covid. This is highly unlikely given everyone is supposed to be locked down at the moment, however teachers may be forced to work even though there is a lockdown.
SB [Post edited 15 Feb 2021 13:06]
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You could have saved yourself a lot of time & just said "yes it is just teachers". That might of change the direction of the conversation but no you play the victim card saying, "you're being fairly aggressive", "you're not engaging in points". Guess what, neither have you.
It's interesting that whenever someone has an alternative viewpoint to yours, you play this passive aggressive role & attack the other party. You have done it in several other threads. I'm defending my point of view but I'm therefore being "fairly aggressive". Do you play the victim card in life whenever some challenges you ???.
I am aware of the teachers position & have discussed this issue with several teacher friends. People CHOOSE to work. We are not slaves. Someone people may comprise their decisions for a number of reasons, maybe because of economic reasons. I know some shop workers who have taken risks they prefer not to because they NEED the money. Then again maybe these people should be grateful that they have the opportunity to work whilst others are focussed into poverty & debt. Everybody has a story and been affected by this pandamic in a negative way but you appear to be the champion for teachers. Yes, more vulnerable teachers should get the vaccine as a proirity & yes no one should be forced to work but your simplistic "all teachers" has an affect however small you say, & yes it raises the issue if other groups should be pushed up the list even if you do just champion teachers.
Maybe you would like to engage with my point of risk of mortality trumps exposure, then again you might want to continue with your blind POV and avoid that issue.
Do please tell me your complete priority list, I'm sure the scienist & medical professionals will amend the list accordingly. Some people say we should be vaccinating young people first to create herd immunity & then again some people say old people should stay locked up, afterall it is largely them who die from it & everybody else should be able to live their themselves as normal.
Also your point re: proirity for teachers could be moot one as one question is should we be focusing on opening up schools/universities asap. Maybe we should wait until a larger proportion of the population have been vaccinated. Maybe this school year is already a write off. Maybe we should be treating getting businesses back first. They are many variables to consider. My basic arguement is why should exposure risk rate rank higher than mortality risk. | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:25 - Feb 15 with 1225 views | hype313 |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:22 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
You could have saved yourself a lot of time & just said "yes it is just teachers". That might of change the direction of the conversation but no you play the victim card saying, "you're being fairly aggressive", "you're not engaging in points". Guess what, neither have you.
It's interesting that whenever someone has an alternative viewpoint to yours, you play this passive aggressive role & attack the other party. You have done it in several other threads. I'm defending my point of view but I'm therefore being "fairly aggressive". Do you play the victim card in life whenever some challenges you ???.
I am aware of the teachers position & have discussed this issue with several teacher friends. People CHOOSE to work. We are not slaves. Someone people may comprise their decisions for a number of reasons, maybe because of economic reasons. I know some shop workers who have taken risks they prefer not to because they NEED the money. Then again maybe these people should be grateful that they have the opportunity to work whilst others are focussed into poverty & debt. Everybody has a story and been affected by this pandamic in a negative way but you appear to be the champion for teachers. Yes, more vulnerable teachers should get the vaccine as a proirity & yes no one should be forced to work but your simplistic "all teachers" has an affect however small you say, & yes it raises the issue if other groups should be pushed up the list even if you do just champion teachers.
Maybe you would like to engage with my point of risk of mortality trumps exposure, then again you might want to continue with your blind POV and avoid that issue.
Do please tell me your complete priority list, I'm sure the scienist & medical professionals will amend the list accordingly. Some people say we should be vaccinating young people first to create herd immunity & then again some people say old people should stay locked up, afterall it is largely them who die from it & everybody else should be able to live their themselves as normal.
Also your point re: proirity for teachers could be moot one as one question is should we be focusing on opening up schools/universities asap. Maybe we should wait until a larger proportion of the population have been vaccinated. Maybe this school year is already a write off. Maybe we should be treating getting businesses back first. They are many variables to consider. My basic arguement is why should exposure risk rate rank higher than mortality risk. |
Think you're reading too much into what Stokie has said, personally don't think he has been aggressive, he's merely pointing out that given their are 500k teachers and we are vaccinating around 400k a day, it's not beyond realms to look at doing those.
I agree we should vaccinate the vunerable, but given the IR is dropping like a stone, then a couple of days to wait isn't the worst idea. |  |
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:31 - Feb 15 with 1208 views | dickie |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:02 - Feb 15 by monytowbray |
I’d just like to go to a gig. I miss gigs. |
My bank balance misses playing gigs | | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:33 - Feb 15 with 1199 views | StokieBlue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:22 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
You could have saved yourself a lot of time & just said "yes it is just teachers". That might of change the direction of the conversation but no you play the victim card saying, "you're being fairly aggressive", "you're not engaging in points". Guess what, neither have you.
It's interesting that whenever someone has an alternative viewpoint to yours, you play this passive aggressive role & attack the other party. You have done it in several other threads. I'm defending my point of view but I'm therefore being "fairly aggressive". Do you play the victim card in life whenever some challenges you ???.
I am aware of the teachers position & have discussed this issue with several teacher friends. People CHOOSE to work. We are not slaves. Someone people may comprise their decisions for a number of reasons, maybe because of economic reasons. I know some shop workers who have taken risks they prefer not to because they NEED the money. Then again maybe these people should be grateful that they have the opportunity to work whilst others are focussed into poverty & debt. Everybody has a story and been affected by this pandamic in a negative way but you appear to be the champion for teachers. Yes, more vulnerable teachers should get the vaccine as a proirity & yes no one should be forced to work but your simplistic "all teachers" has an affect however small you say, & yes it raises the issue if other groups should be pushed up the list even if you do just champion teachers.
Maybe you would like to engage with my point of risk of mortality trumps exposure, then again you might want to continue with your blind POV and avoid that issue.
Do please tell me your complete priority list, I'm sure the scienist & medical professionals will amend the list accordingly. Some people say we should be vaccinating young people first to create herd immunity & then again some people say old people should stay locked up, afterall it is largely them who die from it & everybody else should be able to live their themselves as normal.
Also your point re: proirity for teachers could be moot one as one question is should we be focusing on opening up schools/universities asap. Maybe we should wait until a larger proportion of the population have been vaccinated. Maybe this school year is already a write off. Maybe we should be treating getting businesses back first. They are many variables to consider. My basic arguement is why should exposure risk rate rank higher than mortality risk. |
I edited my original post because I felt that line wasn't needed, however I think anyone can see how you are posting with their own eyes. I don't think I ever "play the victim" card and prefer to rely on facts, evidence and reasoning. It was simply an observation on all your posts in this thread.
I was clear in my first post I was only referring to teachers, I never mentioned any other groups, you were the one who mentioned them so why are you attributing that to me and asking me to provide lists?
Your points on people choosing to work is a false equivalence as if the schools are open the teachers don't really have a choice unless they go on strike. It's also vastly different because it enables kids to get back to school, something you're ignoring in your posts.
Perhaps if you engaged with what is actually posted then you wouldn't end up in these situations. I see no reason to engage with your rant given you've not engaged with any of my points previous to this and made a awful lot of assumptions which don't have any basis in what I have posted.
SB [Post edited 15 Feb 2021 13:36]
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| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:36 - Feb 15 with 1180 views | Mookamoo |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:25 - Feb 15 by hype313 |
Think you're reading too much into what Stokie has said, personally don't think he has been aggressive, he's merely pointing out that given their are 500k teachers and we are vaccinating around 400k a day, it's not beyond realms to look at doing those.
I agree we should vaccinate the vunerable, but given the IR is dropping like a stone, then a couple of days to wait isn't the worst idea. |
If those 500,000 teachers were to be offered a jab, the uptake would most probably be half that. We could do that in afternoon.
Are they not considering it because they're promised all 50+ will get the jab by May. As one of those next in line, I'll be happy to wait until the teachers have bene offered it. |  | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 13:58 - Feb 15 with 1149 views | eastangliaisblue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 11:16 - Feb 15 by monytowbray |
I deffo miss house socials, haven’t been much of a “go out OUT” person for years. Would much rather invite mates over on a BOYB deal (I don’t drink) and I live by the motto “my weed is your weed” for guests!
No queues at bars, no stupid drink prices, no other lairy/annoying/letchy folk around, pick your own tunes. Why people go out baffles me. [Post edited 15 Feb 2021 11:20]
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I've not been an "out out" person for a number of years now. I do still like going to my local on a friday/saturday evening and I'm a traditional pub lover in general.
I used to live for proper nightclubs, like Fabric, Turnmills and places like Warehouse Project up north. Those days are long gone now though as are most of the clubs. |  | | |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 14:15 - Feb 15 with 1099 views | eastangliaisblue |
| Pressure growing on the government to reopen quicker on 14:05 - Feb 15 by SuffolkPOSH |
I'm humoured by you attempt at spinning things and maybe it is you who should be more reflective on how you communicate rather than judging others. You like point out things I haven't answered even if they were never asked but you have clearly skipped over questions asked directly to you. I think theres a word for that & it begins with H.
Indeed you talked about teachers & I raised the issue of other groups. It's called developing a conversation, agruement, POV, whatever you want to call it. So why should ANY one group get priority over another & if one does where does it stop ???. I adopted the stance mortality trumps exposure. You haven't actually addressed that issue but hey it's just me avoiding points raised.
So my point re: choosing to work is a false equivalence. They chose to be a teacher if they don't like it they can change jobs. If they don't like the environment they can leave. This seems a tough stance as the circumstances are due to someting extreme like a global pandamic but as individuals we are responisable for our own choices. They are not forced to be teachers. Naturally in these circumstances you would hope that an employer would be understanding to individual concerns and work around that. Higher risk teachers would have had a vaccine. Others concerned may get the option to get it. However your blank stance of they ALL SHOULD get it ahead of more vulnerbable people is one I disagree with. It seems it is you with the inflexible stance but true to form you accuse me of that like you have with others who dare to not agree with you on other threads.
I've spent enough time addressing this issue. I'm happy that our incompetent government have actually got something right & prioritising the most vulnerable ahead of your exposed teachers & hope you are not to traumatised that the highly educated professionals disagree with your position. |
Why are you saying if teachers don't like their job they can change it? That's not what is being said. Surely one of the priorities of this pandemic is to get kids back in school, ASAP. As it has been said, all teachers could be vaccinated in a couple of days, which would lead to our children getting back to their education. For some reason you have turned this into an attack on teachers. | | | |
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